Rite Aidan & Co.

andyman

I suppose you're right about that.

Dempsey

I was waiting for Senna to undo the steering wheel and hop out aswell. The stupid car bottomed out which caused the loss of control.

gs39t

Dempsey wrote:

I was waiting for Senna to undo the steering wheel and hop out aswell. The stupid car bottomed out which caused the loss of control.

Is that what caused him to crash in the first place? I always thought it was a very odd place to go off at, as it was just a slight kink

Dempsey

As the car entered the Tamburello bend, it bottomed-out and the loss of the ground effect led to a sudden reduction in downforce, and hence grip. As Senna instinctively corrected the resultant slide, the downforce and grip suddenly returned, and Senna effectively drove off the circuit.

aidan_dunne

I don't think it was ever officially declared as the reason for the crash (correct me if I'm wrong) but, yes, unofficially it's widely accepted that the car bottoming out on a bump is what caused the car to continue straight onwards and go into the wall.

There was a documentary shown on Channel 4 a couple of years ago which came to this conclusion. Despite the Italian authorities refusing to release a lot of information, the documentary-makers were still able to gather a lot of evidence from various other sources and it was examined quite meticulously. The Italians always tried to prosecute Frank Williams, Patrick Head and Adrian Newey on the charge that the steering column had been cut and re-welded improperly and had broke as Senna was turning through the corner, sending him veering off into the wall. Senna had, apparantly, requested that the steering column be mounted lower so he could see the cockpit display properly (the column in the Williams car was higher than in the McLaren's he had been driving for several years before that and he wanted it changed more towards the McLaren sort of angle). The Italian prosecutors maintained that the steering column had been cut and re-welded with a piece of pipe (I think they may have even suggested at one point that it was a piece of old gas pipe used!) and that this broke off under the G-forces and stress as Senna was going through Tamburello, sending him straight on into the wall. The Italians impounded the car straight after the crash and it was never released for examination by either Williams, the FIA or an independent source, hence leading to a lot of suspicion and suggestion that the Italians were looking for a scapegoat (i.e. Williams, Head and Newey) for the crash at any cost and would do anything to blame them.

Anyway, despite all this, various independent studies were carried out based on all the other evidence available and it was concluded that the most likely cause of the crash was that the safety car which the field was following for a few laps was driving way too slowly. This meant that the tyre pressures on Senna's car dropped considerably and that, when the racing got back underway again, the car was lower than normal. At the time, Imola was quite a bumpy track anyway as well (look at some of the onboards and you'll see how much bumpier it was then than now) and it seems that Senna went over one of these bumps, the bottom of the car, being much lower than before, hit the ground hard, there was a sudden loss of downforce and Senna momentarily lost steering control of the car and it went straight on into the wall. The steering column didn't break before the car hit the wall, it seems it broke away after it hit.

Those were the conclusions, anyway, of the documentary I saw on Channel 4 and it now seems to have been the most likely (and now most widely accepted) cause of the crash.

Dempsey

Thats the documentry i saw too

molateen

Curran wrote:

HMMM..........why dont they slow down.........remember Nick Heidfeld....at Interlagos (02 i think) when the Arrows crashed.....and he took the door off the medical car....the clown!


Again....will try source evidence!!


Found it!!

Enjoy this farce!..........guy getting out was lucky it was 2 seconds later!

This link doesnt work . Anyone got the real link . I would like to see this .

Ay Cee

BrianD3 wrote:

OK I just found some info on the F3 crash where the car flew into a bridge. The unfortunate driver was Takashi Yokoyama and it happened at the Fuji track in 1997. Very violent crash and the pics reflect this so be warned.
http://www.crasherama.dk/images/F3_1997_Takashi_Yokoyama_at_Fuji11.jpg
http://www.crasherama.dk/images/F3_1997_Takashi_Yokoyama_at_Fuji22.jpg
http://www.crasherama.dk/images/F3_1997_Takashi_Yokoyama_at_Fuji33.jpg

They are UNBELIEVABLE!!! How high does that car go?!

Remember McNish's crash couple of years ago at Suzuka? It's amazing how some of these guys survive or barely injured!

Kersh

Hi guys, just got in on this thread now, have seen most of those crashes before....except the one hitting the bridge...oh my god...
Anyway, yes, I have seen, and been involved in quite a few crashes. One that I never did see was Fergus Dalton hitting a concrete bollard in The Phoenix Park 97. I have seen many cars roll over my head, and I have rolled over a few others. I watched 5 cars come together at the end of the Revett straight in Snetterton. Dave Heavey rolled in front of me at Brands, and we drove under him. There is nothing like the sound of a big crash from inside a car, frightening.
Luckily for us, the only injuries have been broken legs,ankles, wrists, fingers, except fot Dalton, who suffered quite bad internal injuries - by the way he has designed and built a new Vee which will be in Mondello this weekend for the Formula Vee festival.

SouperComputer

senna's crash was a freak one alright. He'd slowed down to 120mph before he hit the wall IIRC.

I remember Fergus Daltons crash, nasty one. I was spectating, my friends wanted to leave and I said no way that there would be a crash in vees!

From my days of karting, ive seen a few nasty crashes. Lots of rolls, been thrown out like a ragdoll myself a few times, had someone drive over my sholder at over 100mph at duckhams once! (still have the scar!) None fatal though, mostly broken bones stiff necks and so on, couple of people knocked out or winded.

There was a nasty one in, I think 2001 where Brian Ward was out of his kart, standing at the rear of and got hit by another kart. He broke his legs badly, but also suffered severe internal bleeding and almost died!

Jonny Arson

I never ever seen Roland Ratzenberger's tragic accident the day before Senna tragically lost his life. Was it a violent accident? What corner did it occur on? I don't want to see the crash just a description as seeing Greg Moore's dreadful accident for the fisrt time since I saw it live has left me feeling sick. Also I heard that Rubens Barricheelo had a terrible accident during the Friday qualifying that weekend aswell. San Marino 1994 the worst weekend ever in motor racing.

I'm still amazed to this day that Kenny Brack survived that accident at Texas 2003. I remember watching that happen and been sick to my stomoch with the thought Keeny could be killed. The relief that he survived was immense despite his horrific injuries. Kenny was definitely a very lucky man as Tony Renna sadly lost his life in a similar accident to Kenny's a week later during testing at Indianapolis.

Robbo

SouperComputer wrote:

senna's crash was a freak one alright. He'd slowed down to 120mph before he hit the wall IIRC.

I remember Fergus Daltons crash, nasty one. I was spectating, my friends wanted to leave and I said no way that there would be a crash in vees!

From my days of karting, ive seen a few nasty crashes. Lots of rolls, been thrown out like a ragdoll myself a few times, had someone drive over my sholder at over 100mph at duckhams once! (still have the scar!) None fatal though, mostly broken bones stiff necks and so on, couple of people knocked out or winded.

There was a nasty one in, I think 2001 where Brian Ward was out of his kart, standing at the rear of and got hit by another kart. He broke his legs badly, but also suffered severe internal bleeding and almost died!

Jim, were you there for the one in Mondello where Tristan Horan was hit after he seized around the start-finish line and was sitting facing the wrong way in the middle of the track?

BrianD3

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

I never ever seen Roland Ratzenberger's tragic accident the day before Senna tragically lost his life. Was it a violent accident?

Ratzenberger crashed at the Villeneuve curve, just after Tamburello. There are chicanes at both curves now but back in 1994 Villeneuve was ultra high speed. Ratzenberger's front wing broke at this point and he went straight on hitting an unprotected concrete wall a glancing blow at close to 200 mph. It was a more severe crash than Senna's. The car stood up very well to the impact with only some tearing of the monocoque but the driver died from IIRC a broken neck. The crash video is not particularly graphic or violent however you can tell that it is a very high speed crash and you can also tell that the driver is in a bad way before the car even comes to rest (as you can see his head badly slumped in the cockpit)

Curran

BrianD3 wrote:

Ratzenberger crashed at the Villeneuve curve, just after Tamburello. There are chicanes at both curves now but back in 1994 Villeneuve was ultra high speed. Ratzenberger's front wing broke at this point and he went straight on hitting an unprotected concrete wall a glancing blow at close to 200 mph. It was a more severe crash than Senna's. The car stood up very well to the impact with only some tearing of the monocoque but the driver died from IIRC a broken neck. The crash video is not particularly graphic or violent however you can tell that it is a very high speed crash and you can also tell that the driver is in a bad way before the car even comes to rest (as you can see his head badly slumped in the cockpit)

That description is spot on......unfortunately!

Yeah Rubens did have a nasty crash, which could have been 100 times worse than it was!
The car clip a high curb and the car became airborne! A good 3 feet off the ground!
Luckily for Rubens his car shot straight into the top of the tyre wall.....and landed on it.......looked kinda funny actually......but had it been a few inches higher it could have also been fatal!

Imola 94 was a bad bad weekend in F1 history....fingers crossed....never to be repeated or even close to be repeated!

BrianD3

Curran and others, did ye ever see footage of Nelson Piquet crashing at Indianapolis in 1992. Horrible crash, a massive head on impact. Piquet's legs were in bits after it but he was lucky to survive at all. Thankfully there was a happy ending, after surgery Piquet made a pretty much complete recovery (although he apparently has been left with a slight limp!) and drove at Indy one year after the crash.
Pics here, some quite graphic
http://www.geocities.com/piquet2004/index76.html

SouperComputer

Jim, were you there for the one in Mondello where Tristan Horan was hit after he seized around the start-finish line and was sitting facing the wrong way in the middle of the track?

No. IIRC that was the C plate in 96. Twas before my time. I was around for the Paul Taylor \ Eoghan Breslin one though, testing in Mondello during 97. That was a very nasty one.

Curran

The videos if you want to watch!

Not a particularally visous crash.........but so depressing to see his head slumped to one side!

Ratzenberger


Watch the slow mo on this one! Rubens head jerks forward when the nose hits the ground..........sore neck the next morning id say........also what out for the young player!! (Irvine)
Barrichello

Curran

BrianD3 wrote:

http://www.geocities.com/piquet2004/index76.html

Says the page is unavailable!
Is it a page you have to log on to get to?

BrianD3

Curran wrote:

Says the page is unavailable!
Is it a page you have to log on to get to?

Nah, you don't have to logon. The error message is saying that the page has exceeded its permitted data transfer and will be availabe again in an hour. I'd say me viewing the photos an hour or two ago (there are a lot of photos and they are quite large) pushed the site over its data transfer limit

Curran

BrianD3 wrote:

Nah, you don't have to logon. The error message is saying that the page has exceeded its permitted data transfer and will be availabe again in an hour. I'd say me viewing the photos an hour or two ago (there are a lot of photos and they are quite large) pushed the site over its data transfer limit

NICE ONE....could have waited a while to post then! :rolleyes:

Curran

BrianD3 wrote:

http://www.geocities.com/piquet2004/index76.html

OOOUUCCCHHH!
That looks pretty nasty actually!
See the way nose cone is so squashed up that his helmet is nearly touching off the wall........where did his legs go??? :eek:

dearg_doom

Jeez lads, this thread is horrible, all the bad memories of waiting and waiting for Senna to get out of the car and wave at everyone like they normally do, then my Da switching off the telly and completely changing the subject!!

I was 11(I think, 'early94 right?) but my little sister was a bit too young to see all that stuff. The coverage was very sombre.


Another crash I remember was that Mercedes supercar, mid-late '90s, I don't know which circuit either, but it came over a crest and took-off, doing a complete flip!

SouperComputer

dearg_doom wrote:

Jeez lads, this thread is horrible, all the bad memories of waiting and waiting for Senna to get out of the car and wave at everyone like they normally do, then my Da switching off the telly and completely changing the subject!!

I was 11(I think, 'early94 right?) but my little sister was a bit too young to see all that stuff. The coverage was very sombre.


Another crash I remember was that Mercedes supercar, mid-late '90s, I don't know which circuit either, but it came over a crest and took-off, doing a complete flip!

that was lemans 1999 IIRC. Mark Webber maybe

I think he was breathalised as he landed on public property!

gs39t

Wasnt that Peter Dumbreck?

Curran

gs39t wrote:

Wasnt that Peter Dumbreck?

Yeah it was Peter Dumbreck.........will try and source the vid for ya'all !!!

Curran

Didnt take me long to source it!

Crazy!

molateen

Here is an amazing escape from a Nascar driver . How he got out of this I will never know .

http://gmail.google.com/gmail/?view=att&disp=attd&attid=0.0&th=1048a120d763ab58

Curran

molateen wrote:

Here is an amazing escape from a Nascar driver . How he got out of this I will never know .

http://gmail.google.com/gmail/?view=att&disp=attd&attid=0.0&th=1048a120d763ab58

Need a google account for that link molateen!

andyman

Just saw Ratzenbergers crash now. You're right it is depressing seeing his head tilt to to one side.