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Listowel Thread
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I was born in Listowel in the mid seventies. I now live and work in Dublin. This past week was embarassing for any right thinking Kerryman, but even more so for Listowel men. The outrageous support of Listowel people, of a sex beast who was found guilty by a court of law has outraged modern Ireland. The display by 50 savages of this beast was insane. These 50 men are as guilty of Danny Foley. They openly condoned the rape of a young woman. They as a group of men said it was ok to try and throw her into a skip like a piece of rubbish.
Every female relative of these 50 men should be very scared. Now you know what kind of Kerry men run in your families. Men who are akin to savages. I thought Kerry had dragged its ass out of the bygone eras, but after this we are back in the Kerry babies times. The women who support these 50 men should be ashamed of yourselved too. You are obviously in abusive relationships if your men condone sexual assault. I am surprised these men don't have a weekly rape day when they wheel out the town's women for a bit of manly fun.
He thought he would get away with being a beast, but CCTV caught him out. Danny Foley was trying to throw that girl into a skip after he finished with her, make no mistake about that. He should have got life. He is no quiet respectable man. He has clearly shown that a savage lurked below his face. I am so ashamed to be a Kerryman this week, but even nmore so that I am a Listowel man, cause every other county now thinks we are nothing more than cave men, and that is very sad. Shame on you Listowel, you have made a mock of us across the globe.:mad:0 -
Firstly let me start by un-categorically stating my support for the woman beginning to be known as Ms.Couragious at the centre of this case. Secondly, and this may seem pedantic, but we are subject to the laws of the land as much here as anywhere else, may I ask posters to please be careful to refer to the convicted man as having been convicted of "sexual assault" and not rape. (Not that IMHO if the guards hadn't walked over to them when they did is probably what would have occurred).
I am a Kerrywoman, born and bred. One thing comes up for me here as not being dealt with really in Kerry society. A woman is legless drunk. In this case needing to be physically CARRIED. No man should go within an asses roar of her looking for a shift/sex whatever. If she is incapacitated she is vulnerable. Only sex-pests prey on the vulnerable. Many the sex-pest is a nice guy to everyone other than his victims.
Given the level of this guys popularity I am not surprised that 50 people queued up to shake his hand. I dont think they were supporting his actions. I think they genuinely believed his BS that he didn't do it! Sex-offenders are often really convincing and practised liars and in this case was a hugely well known and liked guy. It should not have been permitted to occur in the courtroom in front of the victim though.
Ms. Couragous says that now businesses in Listowel are refusing her service as her character is blackend by having proceeded with this case. This is appalingly backward behaviour and far more odious than shaking a guys hand, as it deliberately attempts to have a go at her and can have no other motive ascribed to it. (Unless these establishments are pubs; as this whole event had it happenned to me would personally prompt me to have a look at my relationship with alcohol and the trouble it was landing me in).
I fear for the economic backlash Listowel will suffer as a result of this case. I refuse to believe that there are not a significant number of people in Listowel and the surrounding areas who (a) have read the FACTS of the case and not listened to the proven false assertions of the convicted man,
(b) support the victim in her own personal struggle to maintain her dignity now that she has secured a conviction for the crime committed against her and
(c) Has had enough of the mentality of many men that says "sure she was a bit pissed but..........".... I have never personally been that drunk, but I have had to fight my share of men off when they were aggressively pursuing more than I was prepared to offer. I thank goodness that I wasn't pissed as I know I would have been in deep trouble. Time for a bit of positive solidarity in Listowel.
I propose that Listowel people should gather and hold a vigil in support of this woman. Advertise it well in advance to give other people a chance to attend from outside the area as she has alot of supporters. Many more than his backward bogmen and business owners.0 -
Church newsletter0
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It appears that Boards.ie won't accept publication of this, so, follow this link to a Listowel sister website, & read:
< http://groups.google.com/group/ListowelCoKerryIrelandHistoricalSociety/browse_thread/thread/5ae5356f1c325ca1 >
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/eoghan-harris/eoghan-har...
I posted in Boards.ie, the Listowel thread, but the post was censored,
so, here it is anyway:
Ireland, Kerry, Listowel---Rise, Fight Back!
I have, over these past few years read the following books which
either I picked up while visiting Listowel & Dublin, or had sent to me
as gifts, or brought out here to Phoenix, AZ., by my brothers, as
gifts:
1 ) The Builders
2 ) Who really owns Ireland
3 ) Bertie Ahern & The Dromchondra Mafia
4 ) The Bankers--by Senator Shane Ross, which I have just finished.
Ireland: You have been duped, you have been pillaged more thoroughly
than a Vikings' job, you have been cheated, you have been mis-
governed, you have been shafted & raped.
And, what have you done? You lie passive & supine allowing these
buggers to rule you, to be appointed to jobs with huge salaries, to
have tribunals ( by a " Justice " system hardly geared to find the
truth) that run on interminably & w/o anyone being send to gaol.
Was this what 1916 was all about?.
" A terrible beauty is born " wrote W. B. Yeats.
More terrible than can have been conceived by him, me thinks,
considering the false actions by your builders, bankers, politicians,
etc., during the 1990s & ' noughties '.
Rise UP, Ireland, Kerry, Listowel: Throw those bastards out of office.
Insist that honest men be appointed to jobs at banks, at regulators
office, at the Civil Service.
The gods tell me that if ten ( 10 ) good men and/or women, that if ten
( 10 ) honest men and/or women, can be found in Ireland, that Ireland
may be spared further pillage, humiliation, & laughter from a World
bemused by all of this & the passivity of the Irish race.
Mise ' AnBealBocht ' on Boards.ie. Good luck, Listowel.0 -
PLEASE be very careful about sticking to the facts in this case, and only using the terms/charge that this man was convicted under. Otherwise this could be libelous.0
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It is also good manners to keep to the thread being discussed. So Lovely writer and an beal bocht if you want to discuss the church newsletter or bertie aherne, have the manners to start a new thread instead of dropping your ramblings into an existing thread!0
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As to the mentality of Listowel people, that was always questionable. I am glad I don't live there today, The world thinks Listowel men are inbred and of dubious parentage due to the traveller / market background of the town. I was sneered at today at work, so it is a shock that people across the country view us as missing a chromosome! You are a twisted man Foley and if I ever come across you, I will give you a comeuppance, you bloody animal.0
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As to the mentality of Listowel people, that was always questionable. I am glad I don't live there today, The world thinks Listowel men are inbred and of dubious parentage due to the traveller / market background of the town. I was sneered at today at work, so it is a shock that people across the country view us as missing a chromosome! You are a twisted man Foley and if I ever come across you, I will give you a comeuppance, you bloody animal.
Born in Listowel and criticising the mentality of Listowel people? :rolleyes:0 -
if you want to discuss the church newsletter or bertie aherne, have the manners to start a new thread instead of dropping your ramblings into an existing thread!
Alfie2010, the church newsletter is always posted in this thread. They are not off-topic (well, perhaps Bertie is a little off-topic, however this thread, as with the other local threads, are primarily for the locals of that area to discuss what they wish, about their area, or otherwise, within reason).
As for sticking to the threads that have certain themes - there is already a thread on this Foley case in this forum, perhaps it would be better to discuss this matter there, if you so wish.
Lastly, the majority posters in this thread, and this forum, are regular, long-standing users in the Kerry forum, where there is NEVER any incident or issue. This current topic is certainly causing a stir, however, I would urge people to stick to the facts of the case as presented in court, stick to the charge label the man was convicted for, and please, do not abuse other posters here for their opinions - everyone has a right to their own opinion on Listowel, it's natives, and yes, on this trial also.
No trolling!0 -
Yes, I have no issue with my comment. You have to question the mentality after what we have seen this week. There is something wrong when 50 men did what they did. As for Foley, he was never the full shilling. The elevator never went to the top floor. I visited in June and was amazed at the numbers of wasters in their 40's hanging around.. Well I suppose if you aspire to be a top class doorman, you will attract such hight levels of respect. I believe the town retailers are shunning the poor girl's custome now. Well you know what they say about sheep. It's a pity they can't find the cliff!0
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@440mhz. I am confused! If you look back you will see I picked up from 2 previous posters comments so the thread had taken a new direction so my comment on the newsletter is perfectly acceptable. As for your members, please don't get clannish on me. As a Kerryman I am perfectly entitled to my view here and I have not critised anyone elses. I have also stuck to the facts of the case in question. I have said nothing that is not in the media so where do you as a moderator see an issue? Time to relax a little me thinks!0
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It is also good manners to keep to the thread being discussed. So Lovely writer and an beal bocht if you want to discuss the church newsletter or bertie aherne, have the manners to start a new thread instead of dropping your ramblings into an existing thread!
I also take issue with Alfie 2010's comments quoted above. I feel people can talk about what they like on this thread. Or if not, then when would it be OK to change a topic and talk about something else?- When Alfie2010 gives us permission? Is that it?
Also,I do not live in Listowel; I live overseas, and I appreciate very much LovelyWriter posting the church bulletin every week as Lovely Writer has done for some time now.0 -
Time to relax a little me thinks!
I quoted your post Alfie2010 as you were questioning another user posting the church newsletter - I quoted you, so that I could then point out that the newsletter is a regular thing in this thread and that it is not off-topic, as you suggested.
I did not ask people to stay on topic, as I noted in my post, that this thread consists of many concurrent topics, relevant to the users of this thread. You are also included in that if you wish to post here.
There is nothing clannish here, or no reference to that. I was merely requesting that any new comer, or existing member, respect the rules of boards.ie by not trolling, and not abusing other members. That is not an accusation, it is a preemptive reminder to everyone, not one user in particular.
You have not been singled out, so I think you are the person that should relax right now.0 -
lol I am perfectly relaxed! my posts were replys to previous contributions. then a newsletter appeared as a reply to my post. I just thought it was an out of place post! We are discussing the fall out from a very serious action in Listowel and in drops in a church newsletter. As for uptheashes comment, happy christmas!!!0
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lol I am perfectly relaxed!
That makes two of us then!my posts were replys to previous contributions. then a newsletter appeared as a reply to my post. I just thought it was an out of place post!
If you look back through this thread, you will see that the newsletter in question is posted regularly here. It was not, as you believe, a reply to your thread, but a concurrent topic update that regularly appears here. Therefore, it is not out of place, and that is what I was pointing out to you.0 -
lol I am perfectly relaxed! my posts were replys to previous contributions. then a newsletter appeared as a reply to my post. I just thought it was an out of place post! We are discussing the fall out from a very serious action in Listowel and in drops in a church newsletter. As for uptheashes comment, happy christmas!!!
Sounds like you have a bee in your bonnet there Alfie, but thanks for wishing me a Happy Christmas. While I'm at it I'd like to wish a Happy Christmas to all posters here and all my friends in Listowel.0 -
As to the mentality of Listowel people, that was always questionable. I am glad I don't live there today, The world thinks Listowel men are inbred and of dubious parentage due to the traveller / market background of the town. I was sneered at today at work, so it is a shock that people across the country view us as missing a chromosome! You are a twisted man Foley and if I ever come across you, I will give you a comeuppance, you bloody animal.
alfie2010 i wonder if you were really born in listowel.your hatred of the place and people makes me wonder why you ever go back down.were you talking about your own dubious parentage as i have no problem with my proud parents and the wonderful town of listowel that i was born nearly 65 yrs.ago.I would hope that your parents are not alive to read your comments as you would be an embarrasment to them.I was sorry to hear that your co workers sneered at you but city folks always looked down at us common folk in the country.As i have already commented on boards what i think of foley and the 50 plus the rev.sheehy and the most important person,the victim.But to blame all listowel people for the actions of 50 who if i read were neighbours of foley from meen.As a man who has left listowel over 45yrs. ago for the states i do see changes in the listowel of my youth but so is every town in ireland and it is sad to see.I will die a proud Listowel man and i hope you get over your hatred.It is curable.0 -
Listowel today is in the grip of ice. The square is a veritable winter wonderland; very picturesque.
Happy Christmas to everyone who is reading this. I wish you all good health and happiness in 2010.
Happy posting!0 -
I hope to get out with the camera today and get a few really wintry ones for the diaspora.0
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SHALOM , NOLLAIG SHONA DAOIBH AGUS ATHBHLIAIN FAOI MHAISE DAOIBH0
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With the co-operation of the parish secretary I have posted the newsletter on the Listowel thread for more than two years. I do this so that the Listowel diaspora can have some contact with the town that I, though I am not a native, appreciate and love.
With his vituperative comments Alfie2010 has denigrated all the people of Listowel. Like many others he is relying on the pejorative remarks of journalists and the judge.
Maybe, Alfie2010, you should realise that the entire story is not printed in the newspapers.0 -
In her her victim impact statement the complainant spoke of feeling judged in north Kerry for pursuing her case, but said she was not sorry for telling the truth. Nor should she be. It is impossible to know to what extent she was being judged by the public but, ultimately, she did the right thing in coming forward. The law cannot be decided on the basis of how anyone feels, no matter how appallingly they have been mistreated.
Justice must not only be done, it must be done openly and transparently and perpetuating a culture of victimhood is in no-one’s interest. The complainant in the Listowel case has been vindicated and she has every right to that vindication. Anonymity, however, well meaning in intent has not served her and will not serve others in her position.
Read more: http://forth.ie/index.php/content/article/listowel_convictions_should_be_hard/20091219/#ixzz0aSAy57VV
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Listowel: convictions should be hard
Sat 19 Dec, 2009
Trials for sexual offences are difficult for the complainant – unfortunately they have to be
THE WEB and airwaves were alive with outrage this week after a Kerry man, Danny Foley, was sentenced to seven years imprisonment for a violent sexual assault on a woman who was found semi-naked and bruised. The outrage was not simply about the assualt, however. The Irish Examiner newspaper led on Thursday morning with the story that was to dominate the discussion for days, reporting that, prior to sentencing, 50 people “said to be neighbours and friends, trooped into the courtroom and marched up to the accused, in single file. Each man shook his hand – some hugged him warmly, with tears in their eyes.” (1)
Phone calls to and text messages that flooded-in to radio stations were read out on air and the social messaging service Twitter lit-up with fury. People were outraged and described the stunt as a further assault on the victim.
The Examiner’s report made a fairly obvious allusion to the difference between the treatment of the victim and that of her assailant: “It was witnessed by the 24-year-old victim who cut a lonely figure in the front seat of the public gallery. Dressed in black, she sat with a female garda, a counsellor from the Kerry Rape Crisis Centre and a friend.”
The complainant in this case deserves our sympathy, but not that of the court. No doubt her courtroom experience was unpleasant – but unfortunately that is the price of a fair legal system. A court of law must remain strictly impartial and treat every claim and counterclaim with disinterest.
And yet, rape ans sexual assault cases are already treated differently to other forms of violent assault. Despite being done in the name of the complainant, this actually harms both parties, complainant and accused alike. In the Listowel case the complainant was granted anonymity which was respected by the press, however she herself pointed out that people in Listowel knew she was the complainant. This makes a mockery of the anonymity granted – but the answer is not to tighten the law but to abandon the right to anonymity altogether. Granting anonymity may be done in the name of protecting the complainant but it in fact stigmatises women who have been raped or sexually assaulted. Any genuine complainant has nothing to hide and certainly nothing to be ashamed of. Rape victims, like victims of any violent crime, should not feel stigmatised and it is long overdue that everyone accepted this fact.
Outdated notions about a ‘woman’s reputation’ being damaged have no place either in modern society or in the courts. For a start, being violently attacked – sexually or otherwise – confers no blame on the victim, nor should it. However, the law as it stands stigmatises the complainant in rape and sexual assault cases: anonymity is not provided in any other area and offering it in cases of sexual assault suggests that victims need to be protected from scorn.
Read more: http://forth.ie/index.php/content/article/listowel_convictions_should_be_hard/20091219/#ixzz0aSCKE8Ju
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Lovely writer wrote: »With the co-operation of the parish secretary I have posted the newsletter on the Listowel thread for more than two years. I do this so that the Listowel diaspora can have some contact with the town that I, though I am not a native, appreciate and love.
With his vituperative comments Alfie2010 has denigrated all the people of Listowel. Like many others he is relying on the pejorative remarks of journalists and the judge.
Maybe, Alfie2010, you should realise that the entire story is not printed in the newspapers.
Well the above just takes the biscuit!! The town denigrated itself, by standing by and trying to hide behind the priest like all old fashioned parishes of forgotten ireland. Who cares what was not printed??? A crime was committed, proven in court and yet people like you have the audacity to grasp some aule excuse to justifying it happening!! Nothing can justify the actions of Danny foley. Pu away your holy newsletter, burn your old bible and take a grasp of reality. For the life of me i dont know why the poor girl wants to get on with her life in listowel, she should run when people like you try to justify a sexual assault.0 -
Well the above just takes the biscuit!! The town denigrated itself, by standing by and trying to hide behind the priest like all old fashioned parishes of forgotten ireland. Who cares what was not printed??? A crime was committed, proven in court and yet people like you have the audacity to grasp some aule excuse to justifying it happening!! Nothing can justify the actions of Danny foley. Pu away your holy newsletter, burn your old bible and take a grasp of reality. For the life of me i dont know why the poor girl wants to get on with her life in listowel, she should run when people like you try to justify a sexual assault.
You have expressed your opinion. That is respected.
The manner in which you subsequently attack posts is undignified & undeserved.
You have gone from discourse to drama. It is unseemly.0 -
AnBealBocht wrote: »You have expressed your opinion. That is respected.
The manner in which you subsequently attack posts is undignified & undeserved.
You have gone from discourse to drama. It is unseemly.
An attack is exactly whats required to try and shake some common sense into some posters.It is so easy for the disapora to comment and pontificate from their pedestals abroad.This is no drama I can assure you. I am on fire because old biddies of bygone days try to suggest the lady in question was assaulted because she deserved it for some reason. You see Listowel is still in the era of the Kerry babies case, and could easily be a location for a remake of "The Field" The lady in question has received support from across the world, nearly 10,000 supporters now registered on Facebook, all of whom sent personal emails to the Kerry Rape Crisis Centre. On the oppositie side, there is another such support page for Danny Foley with 8 supporters.
An Beal Bocht, I wont dent your respect for your home town. But you cannot ignore that in 2010, the town elders turn a blind eye to a young lady being stripped to the waist, carried to a skip full of rubbish and left there after a serious sexual assault. Are you of the same mentality that condones it, after all, sure you described it as a bit of drama didn't you?
By the way, I visit Phoenix a few times a year as my employer is based there. So I know it's mind set. Will you proudly sit in some cafe or bar downtown and proudly tell the folk you come from Listowel??? Why don't you tell a few buddies about the bit of drama at home? Tell a few local ladies about the bit o drama and see how they respond to you. I am sure the smirk will be removed pretty quickly. Try "Listowel" in a search engine and set what you get. In a nutshell, a priest, 50 old savages and their supporters managed to reduce Listowel's image overnight. No one with an honest, christian mind can justify what happened. And let me tell you one last thing about this case. One of the supporters of Danny Foley, one who says she deserved it, is also one of the leading members of a group of people calling for the support of children sexually abused by priests in Kerry!! Now theres a right dose of irony. Is it an wonder people ike me come on to forums like this full of fire to try and get some balance to the nonsense spread around. Perhaps the disapora should stop reading the fairytale newsletters, that only tell you what the church thinks it should tell you. You did not see anything in the newsletter regarding the case did you? Nothing in there from the holier than thou christians in the form of support for the girl? No, there is not.Take off the rose tinted glasses of home, it is still just a valley in Kerry stuck in the dirt and stink of the 1920's.0 -
alfie2010 i wonder if you were really born in listowel.your hatred of the place and people makes me wonder why you ever go back down.were you talking about your own dubious parentage as i have no problem with my proud parents and the wonderful town of listowel that i was born nearly 65 yrs.ago.I would hope that your parents are not alive to read your comments as you would be an embarrasment to them.I was sorry to hear that your co workers sneered at you but city folks always looked down at us common folk in the country.As i have already commented on boards what i think of foley and the 50 plus the rev.sheehy and the most important person,the victim.But to blame all listowel people for the actions of 50 who if i read were neighbours of foley from meen.As a man who has left listowel over 45yrs. ago for the states i do see changes in the listowel of my youth but so is every town in ireland and it is sad to see.I will die a proud Listowel man and i hope you get over your hatred.It is curable.
No, I don't have an issue with my parents. I am sure they are as decent as yours. I should have clarified that the comment on parentage was directed at me by a smirking dub, however how can I respond appropriately when all he can see is the diabolical actions of so many? Even worse those with a christian mind stayed quite, said nothing to undo the shame, hid behind a bishop to get it undone for the sake of the town. You can see from boards that there are many younger listowel people like me who are outraged and speak out against the crime and support the lady in question. However when we do we get attacked from left to right. Hold onto your memories of home, but believe me, a terrible terrible sickness lurks below the surface in the old town. As for the every town in Ireland, your so wrong, it was Listowel and only listowel. No where else. I think most other localities respond to such crimes appropriately. Kerry is stuck in the 1920's0 -
No, I don't have an issue with my parents. I am sure they are as decent as yours. I should have clarified that the comment on parentage was directed at me by a smirking dub, however how can I respond appropriately when all he can see is the diabolical actions of so many? Even worse those with a christian mind stayed quite, said nothing to undo the shame, hid behind a bishop to get it undone for the sake of the town. You can see from boards that there are many younger listowel people like me who are outraged and speak out against the crime and support the lady in question. However when we do we get attacked from left to right. Hold onto your memories of home, but believe me, a terrible terrible sickness lurks below the surface in the old town. As for the every town in Ireland, your so wrong, it was Listowel and only listowel. No where else. I think most other localities respond to such crimes appropriately. Kerry is stuck in the 1920's
Does this mean you won't be coming for the Races?0 -
Dear Alfie,
I commend a lovely book to you. It is called Listowel Through a Lens and is in Santa's sack for most native and exiled Listowellians this Christmas. Here you will see Listowel as it really is. You will see beautiful buidings, kindly and tolerant people and streetscapes second to none.
Kick back, after all the ranting and fuming and take time out to enjoy your native town.
Happy Christmas0 -
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Maybe we should bomb Listowel. And Phoenix too!0
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