power restriction question

Sesshoumaru · 14-06-2005 4:29pm #1

I just bought my new 1997 Honda CBR 250 yesterday. I was wondering can anyone tell me does this bike need a restrictor fitted if you are on a first provisional licence like me? It definately exceeds the 25KW(it has a 29KW output) limit, but im not sure if it exceeds the 0.16KW/kg power to weight ratio mentioned on the department of transport website. I can only find the dry weight for the bike, which is given at 158kg. This is the weight without fuel, oil, brake fluids etc. It needs to weight 185kg to be legal. Any other CBR 250 owners out there that can set me straight?

Motorcyclists
A person applying for a first time provisional licence in category A shall be restricted to driving motorcycles with an engine power output not exceeding 25kW or with a power/weight ratio not exceeding 0.16 kW/kg. Such restriction applies for the duration of all provisional licences and for the first two years after taking out a full driving licence in category A. Only thereafter shall such person be entitled to drive motorcycles with an engine power output exceeding 25kW.

http://www.transport.ie/roads/licensing/provisional/index.asp?lang=ENG&loc=1837

spockety · 14-06-2005 5:36pm

You will definitely need a restrictor if you want to stay legal.

Biker.ie · 14-06-2005 6:26pm

A 'factory' restriction tends to carry more weight with insurance companies, presumably because ordinary(?) restrictors can be added (or pretend added and then removed) yourself or at a bike shop in a matter of minutes, so the insurance company probably wont believe its actually restricted and charge full whack (group 8-9?) on your 18billion rpm machine anyway, assuming they even quote you in the first place. Fun bike btw.

Sesshoumaru · 14-06-2005 7:26pm

Biker.ie wrote:

A 'factory' restriction tends to carry more weight with insurance companies, presumably because ordinary(?) restrictors can be added (or pretend added and then removed) yourself or at a bike shop in a matter of minutes, so the insurance company probably wont believe its actually restricted and charge full whack (group 8-9?) on your 18billion rpm machine anyway, assuming they even quote you in the first place. Fun bike btw.

Well I have a quote from Aon for 1400 third party only. I am going for that. I am just not sure if a restrictor is needed. But I have got a quote of 300 from a garage to have one fitted just in case I do. Its just a bit confusing about the power to weight ratio. I mean using the dry weight figure its not legal. but obviously a bike will weight more than the dry weight figure when its setup to go out on the road and is fueled. oh and the cbr 250 is group 5 according to Aon/Axa

a_ominous · 14-06-2005 7:41pm

Take a look at MAG ireland site. There is a CB250RS listed as learner legal. That maybe your bike? But 29kW/158kg = 0.1835kW/kg, so maybe not.

The government fecked up the restriction thingy here.
In the rest of EU, the restriction is <25kW and/or <= 0.16kW/kg.
In good old Ireland, the restriction is <25kW or <= 0.16kW/kg.
This means it is possible to ride a bigger bike, say a 600cc cruiser as it does not exceed power to weight ratio.

Carole Nash don't recognise factory restrictions. Hibernian did, but they're closing up shop soon. AON/Axa might recognise factory restricted bikes but I don't know and haven't asked as I'm unrestricted now

It's probably just down to what you can afford to insure. Which ain't getting any easier.

Can I ask why you're asking this question now _after_ buying the bike and not before? Did the shop tell you it was okay? I'm a bit doubtful of some of them. The insurance companies don't really care, it's a legal requirement. Perhaps if they paid more attention to it, there mightn't be as many people riding illegally. Allegedly.

You might more specific info here

Sesshoumaru · 14-06-2005 7:52pm

a_ominous wrote:

Take a look at MAG ireland site. There is a CB250RS listed as learner legal. That maybe your bike? But 29kW/158kg = 0.1835kW/kg, so maybe not.

The government fecked up the restriction thingy here.
In the rest of EU, the restriction is <25kW and/or <= 0.16kW/kg.
In good old Ireland, the restriction is <25kW or <= 0.16kW/kg.
This means it is possible to ride a bigger bike, say a 600cc cruiser as it does not exceed power to weight ratio.

Carole Nash don't recognise factory restrictions. Hibernian did, but they're closing up shop soon. AON/Axa might recognise factory restricted bikes but I don't know and haven't asked as I'm unrestricted now. It's probably just down to what you can afford to insure. Which ain't getting any easier.

Can I ask why you're asking this question now _after_ buying the bike and not before? Did the shop tell you it was okay? I'm a bit doubtful of some of them. The insurance companies don't really care, it's a legal requirement. Perhaps if they paid more attention to it, there mightn't be as many people riding illegally. Allegedly.

You might more specific info here

When I bought it I assumed it would have to be restricted based on bhp. It develops 39.4bhp. But now that I see the "or" part for the power to weight ratio I am wondering if its actually legal as it is. Its not like losing 6 or so bhp would kill my enjoyment. But I'd prefer to keep em and my 300 euro if possible

jackofalltrades · 14-06-2005 9:19pm

But now that I see the "or" part for the power to weight ratio I am wondering if its actually legal as it is.

Your bike exceeds both the "<25kW" and the "<= 0.16kW/kg" when calculated using the bikes dry weight, which is what im assuming it goes on.

And even if the power-to-weight ratio was calculated on the bikes weight fully fueled you'd still be under to target weight of 185kgs.

Sesshoumaru · 14-06-2005 9:29pm

jackofalltrades wrote:

Your bike exceeds both the "<25kW" and the "<= 0.16kW/kg" when calculated using the bikes dry weight, which is what im assuming it goes on.

And even if the power-to-weight ratio was calculated on the bikes weight fully fueled you'd still be under to target weight of 185kgs.

I just got a reply from the Department of Transport on it. They told me the bike has to comply with both power output and power to weight restrictions. So no way to get out of getting a restrictor I guess

spockety · 14-06-2005 10:10pm

I am very familiar with the CBR250, it isn't a CB250, so don't confuse them.

As I say, if you want to stay LEGAL and under the terms of your license, you 100% definitely have to have a restrictor kit installed.

It won't have any impact on your insurance either way.
This is not an issue of insurance, it is an issue of being licensed to ride a particular bike.

that guy · 15-06-2005 12:08am

I have always been under the impression that the cbr250 was learner legal as standard. That's the ONLY way to explain the crazy money which they trade for. If you are judging its legality based on the ratio of manufacturers power claims (which are always OVERstated) in relation to manufacturers weight claims (which are always UNDERstated) then you're fcuked from the off. Your insurance company should be able to tell you with one phone call, what bikes they have listed as requiring restriction and what bikes they have listed as not requiring restriction. Don't go by some dude's advice on a forum whatever you do (except my advice of course

)

btw I've ridden cbr 250's. They are not fast bikes. Can't imagine how strangled a "restricted" one would drive. Tbh, I'd rather walk!

spockety · 15-06-2005 9:37am

Insurance companies won't know or care which bikes need restriction.
They insure you either way, they assume the bike is factory standard.

As I said above, it is NOTHING to do with insurance, insurance is almost irrelevant to the debate. It is purely down to your license, and what you are licensed to ride.

The CBR250 puts out nearly 40bhp, and is quite light. You 100% need to restrict it with a restrictor kit if you want to remain legal.

The market for them is huge, but it has nothing to do with their power output being learner legal. I'd wager that 90% of CBR250 riders are on restricted licenses, and that 99% of those don't bother restricting them. Technically they are breaking the law.

This is the company that makes the restrictor kits:
http://www.fiinternational.com/Restrictors.asp

Do a search for honda CBR250, and you will see that they make a restrictor kit for this bike. The reason they make a restrictor kit is that.. yes.. they need to be restricted.

I trust you are no in no doubt!

a_ominous · 15-06-2005 10:34am

Sesshoumaru wrote:

I just got a reply from the Department of Transport on it. They told me the bike has to comply with both power output and power to weight restrictions. So no way to get out of getting a restrictor I guess

MAG Ireland have challenged them on it. The EU directive requires both, but our legislators fecked up the cut'n'paste job and added "and/" in the power restriction. If you were in any other EU country you would have to comply with both terms. And in theory/spirit, we should too. But that's not what the law actually says.
In Ireland you can legally have a race can on a road bike, no dice in the UK. In France you have to carry a complete set of spare bulbs. Different rules apply throughout the EU.

power restriction question

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