Banned from Games Forum

Dinner

Yeah its quite entertaining at times.

Draupnir

Amp is definitely one of Gods special warriors whom, when equipped with a minimum 1 kilometre distance and complete online anonymity, can tear strips of just about anyone with his acid tongue and sarcastic wit.

I just cant understand how power trips like this arent picked up on by the "directors" of boards.ie

Hang on, wait a second, you're all mates..... i may have uncovered the horrible truth behind boards..... some of you think its great to be assholes to ordinary users......

Talliesin

Draupnir wrote:

Amp is definitely one of Gods special warriors whom, when equipped with a minimum 1 kilometre distance and complete online anonymity, can tear strips of just about anyone with his acid tongue and sarcastic wit.

Yeah, but his being anonymous helps stop lots of people knowing who he is from going to his head.

Draupnir wrote:

I just cant understand how power trips like this arent picked up on by the "directors" of boards.ie

Not sure where you're going with the scare-quotes there.

Draupnir wrote:

Hang on, wait a second, you're all mates..... i may have uncovered the horrible truth behind boards

Yes, we're all mates. Most of us met through boards, but we're all mates. What exactly do you think boards exists for? Boards exists to be a bulletin board for boards users. For this boards users pay a sum of €0.00, though they may choose to pay more if they wish.

Boards is not a service or product you have paid for. You have the degree of consumer rights that entails.

Boards is not a semi-state body. You have the degree of say as a citizen this entails.

Boards is not a monopoly. You have the moral right this entails.

Draupnir wrote:

some of you think its great to be assholes to ordinary users......

No, just the same handful of morons repeatedly really.

BuffyBot

some of you think its great to be assholes to ordinary users......

Some of the ordinary users think its great to be assholes to those providing this place for nada, it would seem...

amp

Draupnir wrote:

Amp is definitely one of Gods special warriors whom, when equipped with a minimum 1 kilometre distance and complete online anonymity, can tear strips of just about anyone with his acid tongue and sarcastic wit.

I'm not sure but I think that's the nicest thing anyone with a minimum 1 km distance and complete online anonymity has ever said to me.

You're not quite correct however about the complete online anonymity. People can easily find out who I am.

I just cant understand how power trips like this arent picked up on by the "directors" of boards.ie

I think what you view as a power trip is viewed by them as me doing my job as a moderator. But that's merely conjecture on my behalf. What would be a power trip would be me banning you in retaliation for this little troll of yours. But trolling me in Feedback isn't against charter rules so no power trip for me.

Hang on, wait a second, you're all mates..... i may have uncovered the horrible truth behind boards..... some of you think its great to be assholes to ordinary users......

I'm not an asshole to ordinary users. I'm an asshole to those users who break charter rules. These are a very small stupid part of boards.ie's population. It's my job to stop these morons from ruining the boards experience for ordinary users.

RuggieBear

if you subscribe are you allowed whine and bitch....?


could be a easy way to make a bit of money.

amp

Arabel wrote:

I love how the internet brings out keyboard warriors with superiority complex'. Isnt that right Amp.

Yeah you're right. But hopefully when they read this thread they'll read the charter and I'll have less work to do. Thanks for the support man!

Dinner

No bother. Anytime

Draupnir

the point im trying to make here, is that a bit of the common sense, which is quite often preached about by moderators around here, wouldnt go astray when it comes to moderating at times.

ive seen the kid Loobz be slagged and insulted in this thread for making his own case, he didnt even need to be banned at all. there is a bad culture of banning on boards right now with all this zero tolerance and wrong forum business. if you havent got time to move threads, delete threads etc. then dont offer to be a mod as thats what the job entails.

im all for banning spammers, people who hand out personal abuse etc. but really, a ban for posting in the wrong forum is ridiculous. and thats where Ive got the idea of a mods being on a power trip from.

there are maybe 4 clicks involved in moving a thread in a vBulletin and two involved in PM'ing a user to say, I moved your thread because you posted it in the wrong place. have a nice day.

Normally I wouldnt get involved in this stuff, but I felt sorry for Loobz, it was a genuine mistake on his part and could have been handled better.

Draupnir

Also I dont wanna tar all mods with the same brush because some of them do a damn fine job of things, in far more busy and volatile forums than games, without resorting to this kinda petty stuff.

I have it on good authority from someone who knows a lot of the boards hierarchs that you guys are damn nice people in reality and it comes across well in threads, but frankly, there are a few dodgy apples in the basket.

amp

Draupnir wrote:

the point im trying to make here, is that a bit of the common sense, which is quite often preached about by moderators around here, wouldnt go astray when it comes to moderating at times.

ive seen the kid Loobz be slagged and insulted in this thread for making his own case, he didnt even need to be banned at all. there is a bad culture of banning on boards right now with all this zero tolerance and wrong forum business. if you havent got time to move threads, delete threads etc. then dont offer to be a mod as thats what the job entails.

im all for banning spammers, people who hand out personal abuse etc. but really, a ban for posting in the wrong forum is ridiculous. and thats where Ive got the idea of a mods being on a power trip from.

Loobz wasn't banned for posting a thread in the wrong forum. He/she was banned for not reading the charter. I've already said this.

there are maybe 4 clicks involved in moving a thread in a vBulletin and two involved in PM'ing a user to say, I moved your thread because you posted it in the wrong place. have a nice day.

You obviously don't see the point in having charters then.

Normally I wouldnt get involved in this stuff, but I felt sorry for Loobz, it was a genuine mistake on his part and could have been handled better.

Why do you think I put the rule 0 into the charter? To make people read it. If they read it they know what will get them into trouble and what won't. This makes the very busy Games forum a pleasure to read most of the time as most users will have read it and post within it's parameters.

Oh sorry, I meant that I created Rule 0 in order to have power trips so me and my admin buddies can laugh at the ordinary users. :rolleyes:

seamus

Draupnir wrote:

the point im trying to make here, is that a bit of the common sense, which is quite often preached about by moderators around here, wouldnt go astray when it comes to moderating at times.

ive seen the kid Loobz be slagged and insulted in this thread for making his own case, he didnt even need to be banned at all. there is a bad culture of banning on boards right now with all this zero tolerance and wrong forum business. if you havent got time to move threads, delete threads etc. then dont offer to be a mod as thats what the job entails.

im all for banning spammers, people who hand out personal abuse etc. but really, a ban for posting in the wrong forum is ridiculous. and thats where Ive got the idea of a mods being on a power trip from.

there are maybe 4 clicks involved in moving a thread in a vBulletin and two involved in PM'ing a user to say, I moved your thread because you posted it in the wrong place. have a nice day.

Normally I wouldnt get involved in this stuff, but I felt sorry for Loobz, it was a genuine mistake on his part and could have been handled better.

The problem here is that if I keep moving threads for people, they will continue to post in the wrong forum. Why should I have to move 20+ threads a day because some people are too lazy or too stupid to find out for themselves? I'm not here to help you, even though I will. I'm here to maintain boards.ie.
The charter lays down specifically what you should and should not do. It's not suggested reading, or suggestions on how to post. It's the rules.
Believe me when I tell you there is no winning. For every malcontent like yourself who says it's bad, there's another person who thinks it's great.

Trojan

Draupnir wrote:

im all for banning spammers, people who hand out personal abuse etc. but really, a ban for posting in the wrong forum is ridiculous. and thats where Ive got the idea of a mods being on a power trip from.

Excellent - I think we've found the source of your ire! You are completely and utterly, 100% wrong. Zero tolerance means that something is not tolerated. At all. Regardless. A moderator who (temporarily) bans a user for committing an offence is not on a power trip, but is actually enforcing the rules correctly.

Draupnir wrote:

there are maybe 4 clicks involved in moving a thread in a vBulletin and two involved in PM'ing a user to say, I moved your thread because you posted it in the wrong place.

Let's see. I spend about an hour a day on boards, first thing in the morning, at lunchtime and late at night before bed. That's 60 minutes.

4 clicks means 4 page loads. Sending a PM is another 2 or 3 depending on how it's accessed. Let's say 6.5 page loads on average.

On my slow (650Mhz, 128megs RAM, Firefox 1.0.4) home machine, 6.5 page loads on boards.ie, at 10-20 seconds a page (we'll call it 15) means I'd spend 1.63 minutes per user.

A ban notification PMs normally takes me roughly 45 seconds to write, so that's 2.38 of my valuable minutes.

On a given day, I might ban 1-5 people from various boards or the site (I'm on a right old power trip), so that's 5.95 (oh let's call it 6) minutes of my time.

So I lose 10% (this is an average, not a maximum) of my time available each day to look at interesting stuff on boards, because some idiots can't be bothered reading a thread called READ THIS FIRST?

Feck that for a game of soldiers.

Banned.

Talliesin

RuggieBear wrote:

if you subscribe are you allowed whine and bitch....?

No, it's a donation given freely with token benefits given in return. Quite a few people choose to do so. Bizarre really, given the power-trips the mods are persecuting them with.

amp wrote:

Loobz wasn't banned for posting a thread in the wrong forum. He/she was banned for not reading the charter.

Similarly, he wasn't slagged and insulted for complaining here, he was slagged and insulted for being so stupid that he not only didn't read the charter to begin with, but didn't read it after he'd been banned to try to work out what rule he broke.

Draupnir wrote:

I have it on good authority from someone who knows a lot of the boards hierarchs that you guys are damn nice people in reality

Not sure which sense you mean "nice" in here, and hence whether it applies to me.

From Websters 1812 Edition (the word's was already becoming less useful then, losing some of it's better senses since):

1. Properly, soft; whence, delicate; tender; dainty; sweet or very pleasant to the taste; as a nice bit; nice food.
2. Delicate; fine; applied to texture, composition or color; as cloth of a nice texture; nice tints of color.
3. Accurate; exact; precise; as nice proportions; nice symmetry; nice workmanship; nice rules.
4. Requiring scrupulous exactness; as a nice point.
5. Perceiving the smallest difference; distinguishing accurately and minutely by perception; as a person of nice taste; hence,
6. Perceiving accurately the smallest faults, errors or irregularities; distinguishing and judging with exactness; as a nice judge of a subject; nice discernment.
   "Our author happy in a judge so nice."
7. Over scrupulous or exact.
   "Curious, not knowing; not exact, but nice."
8. Delicate; scrupulously and minutely cautious.
   "The letter was not nice, but full of charge of dear import."
   "Dear love, continue nice and chaste."
9. Fastidious; squeamish.
   "And to taste, think not I shall be nice."
10. Delicate; easily injured.
    "How nice the reputation of the maid!"
11. Refined; as nice and subtle happiness.
12. Having lucky hits. [Not used.]
13. Weak; foolish; effeminate.
14. Trivial; unimportant.
    "To make nice, to be scrupulous."

I'll happily take senses 3, 5 and 6 as praise, and I'll admit sense 7 sometimes applies to me, the rest either don't, or simply don't apply to people.

But generally, the feedback moderators get from most users is pretty positive, if we weren't around who would be there to ban Loobz from Games?

Draupnir

I like you Talliesin, what Ive heard is true evidently. I wonder if you are as good a programmer as Im told you are.

Im not against Charters or Bannings, but this Rule 0, banned for not reading the charter business just whiffs of power tripping to me.

A lot of the time I agree with moderation on here, just in certain cases I dont. Common sense from both sides would be ideal, the moderators are certainly not 100% right in every circumstance.

I wouldnt consider myself 100% wrong in this discussion, I also wouldnt consider myself 100% right. There is always a certain amount that can be taken from a discussion. By the way Trojan, vBulletin has a function to move multiple threads at once. Like Ive said before, dont sign up for a job you cant commit the time too.

A one of mistaken post in the wrong forum is a harsh banning reason, a second time is fair enough, cya later crap for brains but I dont think its very "common sense" to be banning people for one simple mistake. Anyway, Loobz was trying to drum up support for a GTA forum amongst game players, hardly a post totally irrelevant to games.

RuggieBear

Talliesin wrote:

No, it's a donation given freely with token benefits given in return. Quite a few people choose to do so. Bizarre really, given the power-trips the mods are persecuting them with.

oh i know...twas a half arsed effort to recruit some more Subscribers (money).
I decided to subscribe coz i thought boards really is great value for a euro a week.... i've persuaded a mate to do so...and trying to convince the girlie to subscribe too

Besides i like to be persecuted......oh yeah baby!

1

charters are very rarely read. Thats human nature for you.... its a web site people just "post".

The fact that a lot of people are not banned is not because they stay within the charter is just because the charter is usually commonsense.. in internet terms. you think those who have avoided being banned have done so from reading charters?

Take a poll.

1

oh sorry before some smart arse twat decides to argue with me do a time V post V charter read study.

Thanks.

<2000 reads of the games charter V's.....

Talliesin

Draupnir wrote:

I like you Talliesin, what Ive heard is true evidently.

Draupnir wrote:

I wonder if you are as good a programmer as Im told you are.

I try my best.

Draupnir wrote:

Im not against Charters or Bannings, but this Rule 0, banned for not reading the charter business just whiffs of power tripping to me.

The reason I implemented a similar rule elsewhere (and no, I don't really think Amp owes me royalties or anything, I honestly neither know nor care who did so first) was that I got sick of the people who didn't bother to read the charter after they were warned or banned for something. If they complained about that then they obviously hadn't bothered to read the rules when they were already called up on being out of line, and that is really pushing it to my mind.

As a rule users get by without reading the rules if they take a quick look at the charter to find out what the forum is about, and don't do anything really stupid. It's worth reading the rules more carefully if you are about to do something that is outside of the forum's raison d'être (e.g. posting about forum requests on a forum about games) or something that tends to be frowned upon on many Internet forums (e.g. posting announcements or advertisements).

Users who fit that pattern will generally not be banned.

Draupnir wrote:

By the way Trojan, vBulletin has a function to move multiple threads at once. Like Ive said before, dont sign up for a job you cant commit the time too..

One of the reasons that Trojan is highly respected amongst boards users is that he does indeed commit a lot of time to his job.

As I said before, there is no point PMing a user to tell them what rule they broke when they can just read the rules themselves.

Talliesin

RuggieBear wrote:

oh i know...twas a half arsed effort to recruit some more Subscribers (money).

Yes. However the possibility of people thinking it gave them any sort of immunity or special rights above the rewards stated was mooted as a possible problem with the subscriber thing, so don't even joke about that!

RuggieBear

Talliesin wrote:

Yes. However the possibility of people thinking it gave them any sort of immunity or special rights above the rewards stated was mooted as a possible problem with the subscriber thing, so don't even joke about that!

understandable...

i believe there was a muppet who subscribed a little bit back just so he could act the bollix (thinking it would offer some banning stick protection). Think one of the admins banned him anyway....(probably ecksor)

Draupnir

yeah I wasnt having a pop at Trojan there, lot of respect for him, top moderator.

i guess the point im making, which you seem to be agreeing with Talliesin, is that while banning people for doing something thats completely, wildly beyond the realms of a forum's content is fair enough, to ban them straight off the bat without at least a single warning, is silly, and in my opinion, only serves to disrupt the normal flow of boards for a number of users.

it would be as much work to reply to the thread "Wrong forum. Please repost in correct place. Have a nice day." and then lock the thread, as it is to lock the thread, ban the user and then spend 5 days afterwards replying to a thread in Feedback to justify. If said user cocks up again, thats his own stupidity, so a week ban.

Nobody needs to read the games charter to know that a thread entitled: "I love this girl and dont know how to ask her out" doesnt belong there. However, theres a bit more ambiguity around "Any other gamers think a Grand Thefto Auto forum would be good?". Strictly speaking, thats a games discussion of sorts. Just common sense to go case by case rather than blanket.

After all, there are so many forums now, that pretty much any topic could have about 4 locations anyway, so its not an easy job to find exactly what fits where. I could go into after hours with a thread about my dogs ghost coming back to haunt me and causing me to get a lot of spots. That kinda thread could go in AH, PI, Paranormal, Pets. Maybe a bad example, but you get my point.

Draupnir

Case in point, there is a thread in AH right now that is called A place to park.

That could belong in Motors, Dublin City or Commuting/Transport. It also kinda belongs in AH because, well AH is meant to be for: All things non-work related. According to its alt.

Pretty much everything outside the Work forum belongs in AH then, if its charters and zero tolerance.

Talliesin

Of course, you don't remember the days when forum request threads popped up all over boards. Rules where made stricter (just how strict varies) in response to popular demand.

AH has a history going back to a time when boards had 5 (IIRC) forums. It was the "anything else" forum. It still is, but that "anything else" has been made smaller.

AH has a zero-tolerance policy towards off-topic threads, this was also in response to popular demand (quite recently).

amp

Draupnir wrote:

yeah I wasnt having a pop at Trojan there, lot of respect for him, top moderator.

i guess the point im making, which you seem to be agreeing with Talliesin, is that while banning people for doing something thats completely, wildly beyond the realms of a forum's content is fair enough, to ban them straight off the bat without at least a single warning, is silly, and in my opinion, only serves to disrupt the normal flow of boards for a number of users.

Please show me which users were disrupted by my banning of Loobz.

it would be as much work to reply to the thread "Wrong forum. Please repost in correct place. Have a nice day." and then lock the thread, as it is to lock the thread, ban the user and then spend 5 days afterwards replying to a thread in Feedback to justify. If said user cocks up again, thats his own stupidity, so a week ban.

As a veteran Games moderator I try to think more long term than that. Often, making examples of people results in other users not making stupid mistakes. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

Nobody needs to read the games charter to know that a thread entitled: "I love this girl and dont know how to ask her out" doesnt belong there. However, theres a bit more ambiguity around "Any other gamers think a Grand Thefto Auto forum would be good?". Strictly speaking, thats a games discussion of sorts. Just common sense to go case by case rather than blanket.

The Games board is not for discussing new forums. It's for discussing games. That's why Forums exists. What's hard to understand about this?

After all, there are so many forums now, that pretty much any topic could have about 4 locations anyway, so its not an easy job to find exactly what fits where. I could go into after hours with a thread about my dogs ghost coming back to haunt me and causing me to get a lot of spots. That kinda thread could go in AH, PI, Paranormal, Pets. Maybe a bad example, but you get my point.

I don't really understand your point, but then I don't understand After Hours Off-topic policy. I don't mind because I don't post there much. It's easier to define what's on-topic for Games, and therefore rules have been added over time. I only add rules when certain annoying trends develop.

But you stick with your vision of me as this power-tripping dictator that gets off on opressing the ordinary user. Continue to discount my over four years experience as a Games moderator and six years on boards.

And I'll continue to ban people who choose to ignore the rules. I'm done arguing with you because I suspect that you're one of the regular bunch of morons that fight da power for the sake of it.

Dinner

Talliesin wrote:

AH has a zero-tolerance policy towards off-topic threads, this was also in response to popular demand (quite recently).

Hold up now, what exactly is on topic in a forum known for being for off topic stuff.

What happens if, as already pointed out, a topic covers multiple thread?

And Amp, I can only guess at how pis$ed off you get having to put up this sort of stuff everyday, but for Gods sake stop acting like a pr!ck.

Talliesin

Arabel wrote:

Hold up now, what exactly is on topic in a forum known for being for off topic stuff.

Gee, I don't know, Why don't you read the thread labelled "Zero Tolerance to off-topic threads >>> READ FIRST <<< (Updated 15/06/2005)" and find out. :rolleyes:

Dinner

*sigh* Been there done that, I think that was about number 106 on my reading and memorising list of boards charters and rules.

I asked what was on topic, that thread says whats off topic. So immediatly I assumed well its for anything else that wouldnt fit in another forum. But then Amp stuck his head in and said that anything that didnt fit in AH should go to the Cuckoos Nest, so what is off topic enough not to fit in an off topic forum.


Really, I'm not trying to be a smart arse and sorry if I come across as that but I just want to know what will and wont get me sent to the concentration camps.

Talliesin

Best way to answer that is to take a look at the Cuckoo's Nest, which is a forum that's full of utter nonsense and doesn't try to be otherwise.

If you're just going to post stupid nonsense, do it in the Cuckoo's Nest.

seamus

The Cuckoo's Nest is for spammy stuff. Look at the stickied threads in CN. That'll give you an idea. Look at the stickied threads in AH. That'll give you a good idea of what should be there.

I swear to God, you'd think we were asking you to crack encryption algorithms or answer a questionnaire before posting.

That could belong in Motors, Dublin City or Commuting/Transport. It also kinda belongs in AH because, well AH is meant to be for: All things non-work related. According to its alt.

This is the one thing that comes up each time - "Why don't you be more specific?" And you've just shown why we aren't. Because someone will always try to pick loopholes.

Honestly, there is no-one here that's more eager to see people enjoying a forum than the moderators. If the forum is being used for its purpose, and people are posting, then a mod is doing a good job.
I tried the "treat everyone equally" thing, and it lasted two days. It's more hassle than it's worth. Better to ban people as examples - you can be sure that a few people will now think twice about posting a forum request in the Games forum, hence the ban has served its purpose. I agree with you, banning everyone for the same offence is ridiculous. Discriminate banning is far more effective.