Eircoms Next Special Offer Yellowpack BB 20 Hours a Month

mike65

Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Broadband that turns off after 10 mins of "dead air"! wtf? If this is the line of thinking why not just offer 512k for 20 euro and be done with it!

Matt Cooper is fairly alert to McRedmonds tosh. He's mentioning the huge phone response and I bet McRedmond knows some of the callers are reading this thread!

Mike.

jack_christie

A slightly better performance from Matt Cooper, but still weak on the subject. Nearly always seems to have yer man on his own. As ever everyone is left with the impression that only eircom supply broadband.

"1mb/s the full monty", for f........

JC

SkepticOne

mike65 wrote:

Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Broadband that turns off after 10 mins of "dead air"! wtf? If this is the line of thinking why not just offer 512k for 20 euro and be done with it!

Because 512k would be too good at that price. It would still need to be crippled in some way. Perhaps some means of delivering small electric shocks to the user every 5 minutes could be developed. Some way would need to be found to make the product less desirable.

Never give the punter more than is absolutely necessary. If they want more or don't like this or that aspect of the thing then charge them more.

mike65

Okay 256k then!

Mike.

cgarvey

Matt did seem to be more informed this time alright... sound clip is here (~740KB) for those who missed it.

SkepticOne

mike65 wrote:

Okay 256k then!

Mike.

How about 256k and the electric shocks every 10 minutes as opposed to 5?

SkepticOne

Note the way McRedmond dealt with the issue of time not being relevant to the cost to Eircom in providing broadband and could it not be done on the amount downloaded:

"We certainly looked at that and we considered that. Would downloads be easier, but I think we decided that for most people it is easier to understand the concept of time than to understand the concept of material downloaded."

He sucessfully evaded the issue raised which was the cost to Eircom (not the ability to understand time for the user). However it is the cost to Eircom which is supposed to be the deciding factor in ComReg approving a wholesale product. The wholesale product is supposed to be cost-oriented and should not have artificial features added in which are not desired by the user.

Capt'n Midnight

Charge should be capped at entry level BB cost.

Does the user have to click something to reactivate the modem or is it automatic ?
Many home PC will have power saving so will it dial up when the PC comes back to life ?

Antivirus updates, DNS queries, Adobe acrobat reader, SETI at home
the list of apps that try to connect to the internet is endless.

Also as I've posted before the fastest known time for Windows XPSP1 to be zombied is 30 seconds. After about half an hour it's almost certain and you no longer control all the internet connections from your machine.

byte

A 512k connection with a low cap would have made more sense I reckon. Call it BB Lite or something...

I shall download that TodayFM clip later and have a listen.

Sponge Bob

He coulda offered 256k for €20 a month flat and provided it out to 10km as well.

SkepticOne

byte wrote:

A 512k connection with a low cap would have made more sense I reckon. Call it BB Lite or something...

Too many people might go for this instead of paying more for the 1 meg product, imo.

It would make sense in areas where broadband is coming under some competition, though, like Waterford. In most of the country Eircom is the only provider so they need to cripple the lower end products further.

Chalk

wtf,
5m 20s into clip mcredmond says that
"in the future we may consider introducing a [data] volume based product"

does he not even what they offer already is data limited??????

Chalk

gomb&#237 wrote: »

All,

The modems that are being sent with this are configured to switch off after 30 mins. inactivity, and charge is capped at €49.99

Regards.

are you sure its not a usb dsl modem like what bt:uk used to offer there customers?
in that sense its limited not by the modem, but by windows dial-up settings?

Mr_Man

to note that McRedmond said in the course of the interview that this was the cheapest time base BB product in Europe, and that the average for a time based product was €34 pm.

Now is he spinning porkies here or are there other companies providing time based BB packages? I certainly haven't come across any.

It was noticeable how he seemed to be rattled by the point on data vs time as the limiting factor.

It would seem that Eircom are trying to use this as a taster product to try and encourage people to try out broadband, but would seem to have made a hash of it. I haven't seen any mentioned of the cap on this product yet, but not doubt there is a very restrictive one as those poor confused souls who can't understand the concept of data downloaded wouldn't need to download much.

If this is the limit of what Dr Phil had in mind when he told the shareholders that there would be new initiatives in July to drive BB uptake I'm glad I'm not a shareholder.



M.

Sponge Bob

There is NO CAP on it. I make it that if you are on the entry level 8Gb (now with €3 per Gb Charge applied to every BILL after 7th July if you bust your cap) you are better off as a n existing on the €20 product if you bust your cap by 3.3Gb a month (total d/l 11.3Gb a month average) . There is no point going to the €54 product, also 8gB a month from 7th of July .

Thats because the €20 product is capped at €50 a month tops . It takes about 2.5 hours to download 1 gB of data which is where mc redmond got a figure of 8gb = 20 hours .

This segmentation is insane , truly insane ???


Press Release



Lastest Press Releases
eircom to introduce ‘Time Based’ broadband at €19.99 per month for 20 hours usage

▪ Targets next wave of broadband users

▪ New Always-on Broadband promotional price of €29.99

Wholesale price reductions of up to 37%
16th June, 2005. eircom today announced that it will introduce the first ‘time based’ broadband product to the Irish market called eircom Broadband Time. Offering 20 hours of broadband access per month, eircom Broadband Time will be available at a special promotional price of €19.99 per month (inc. VAT) for new broadband customers who sign up between July and September. After the 20 hour allowance, customers will be charged 4c per minute for additional usage. eircom Broadband Time is aimed at attracting lower usage dial up customers to the broadband market. eircom is also introducing wholesale price reductions for other operators to support these new products, i.e. a wholesale price of €12.55 for up to 20 hours usage for the Time Based product, and promotional subsidies of €115 per customer, payable to other operators.

For just one euro per hour, eircom Broadband Time allows Irish Internet users to enjoy broadband at speeds of 1Mb, one of the fastest connection rates for entry level broadband in Europe. eircom Broadband Time is also 20 times faster than dial up Internet products.

eircom is also introducing a new promotional price for its ‘always on’ eircom standard broadband product of €29.99 per month. This promotional price applies to first time customers that sign up between July 2005 and September 2005.

Commenting on the announcement, eircom’s Commercial Director, David McRedmond, said:

"Our research indicates that there is a demand for a more flexible entry level Broadband product. eircom’s Broadband Time product will attract lighter internet users who have yet to experience Broadband. eircom’s wholesale price reductions and promotional subsidies for other operators will further increase competition and growth in the Broadband market.

seamus

Now the key is for someone else to start an ad campaign with the slogan "we don't believe in time limits" and offer a 512 or even 256 package at €20/month.

eircomtribunal

daymobrew wrote:

I think I agree with Cremo. The eircom flat rate dial-up product has a nasty termination clause where you get charged per-minute rates between cancellation date back to date of previous bill. As this is in the T&C customers get screwed. I was charged per this clause but got a refund because they ignored my instructions to cancel after the billing date.
BTW, anyone know of a product or service where they (retro) charge a different rate when you tell them you've leaving? IMO that's what this clause means.
Office of Dir of Consumer Affairs say the clause is fair :rolleyes:

After requesting action by the ODCA (Office for the Defence of Consumer Abuse?) about this matter – which is absolutely clearly in breach of specific T and C legislation _ I got this feed back from the ODCA in the beginning of April:"In relation to Clause 9.3 of eircom net's dial -up internet terms and conditions...we have, in the interests of consumers , requested eircom to remove Clause 9.3. We are still in discussion with eircom on this issue."

I would assume those discussions could not take that length of time – so far Eircom have not removed the clause.

This clause 9.3, which retrospectively charges customers who do not happen to cancel their contract at the "correct" date at sums of up to € 300 is the equivalent of a T&C in a pub, where the customer who does not drink up his last pint, gets back the money for the pint, but the barman is instead allowed to take up to € 300 out of the customer's purse.

P.

damien

seamus wrote:

Now the key is for someone else to start an ad campaign with the slogan "we don't believe in time limits" and offer a 512 or even 256 package at €20/month.

They could only offer 256k if eircom had a wholesale product like this. Or unless the rest of them requested ComReg to tell eircom to do it, or if Dempsey mandated an always-on flatrate entry level broadband product that retailed for €15 a month.

damien

seamus wrote:

Now the key is for someone else to start an ad campaign with the slogan "we don't believe in time limits"

Competing ISP - Take your time, we're not on the clock.

jwt

Competing ISP.......eh what's that when its at home. Let me know when you find one.






John goes off to hold his breath


John

damien

From Morning Ireland. Nice reporting from Ireland's most listened to Radio Show.

Furious reaction to Eircom's new broadband offering - There has been furious reaction to Eircom's announcement yesterday that it is introducing a 'time based' broadband product to the market. Eircom will offer 20 hours of broadband access a month for an introductory offer of 19.99 for new customers who sign up before September.

Critics say the point of broadband is that it is an 'always-on connection' - while Eircom says the new deal is aimed at attracting lower usage dial- up customers to the broadband market. Lobby group IrelandOffline's chairman Damien Mulley said that one of the major benefits of broadband is its always-on properties, and that Eircom has switched the clock back for Internet users who will have to time their Internet activities.

The chief executive of Eircom's rival, Smart Telecom, said that Eircom have shot themselves in the foot with this new product. He said that instead of advancing Ireland as a Broadband Nation, Eircom have managed to mangle the idea of broadband with this product.

Khannie

Mr_Man wrote:

does anyone know anywhere else in the world where a BB connection has been metered in this way? Or is this an Irish solution to an Eircom problem?

I have seen "broadband dialers" in the UK. I'm sure this is how eircom will solve the problem. It seems like a reasonable idea to me tbh (though I can't see it being very popular).

You double click a little "connect" icon, you're connected, disconnect when you're finished. Save money if you're away (on holidays maybe) or maybe if you're a very light user, but want speed and you're not paying a huge amount if you do decide to go totally mad on the bb.

My nephew has a 256 down 128 up line in the UK for next to nothing. I reckon that would be a perfect entry level package for the /average/ user but I can't see eircom ever offering something similar. A line like that would allow gaming, keep costs down, fast browsing and give slow but acceptable downloads.

edit: Just to be clear, I totally see the arguments against this package. I think people should vote with their wallets though and move to esat, smart, IBB, etc.

What amazes me is the number of eircom users, especially among knowledgeable users and especially when esat and smart are offering better packages.

Mr_Man

looking again at the Eircom press release it seems that the €19.99 price is for three months only, after that it goes up to €24.99. Now the question would be why not pay an extra €5, to someone like UTV, and get unlimited online time rather than be restricted to 20 hours?

Again this would look to be a product to get people 'hooked' and then upsell them to a more expensive connection. The drawback however, apart from the price, is the contract. The great thing for most dialup users is that pay per usage, with this product you are tied in for a minimum of six months afaik.

M.

bk

Mr_Man wrote:

looking again at the Eircom press release it seems that the €19.99 price is for three months only, after that it goes up to €24.99. Now the question would be why not pay an extra €5, to someone like UTV, and get unlimited online time rather than be restricted to 20 hours?

Or BT, Always On plus line rental for €50 per month, this costs exactly the same as Eircoms time limited product when you include line rental, (€25 + €24.50).
Why anyone would want to go for this is beyond me. Of course some will, due to the big marketing Eircom will probably do

eircomtribunal

Mr_Man wrote:

to note that McRedmond said in the course of the interview that this was the cheapest time base BB product in Europe, and that the average for a time based product was €34 pm..

I had a look at the time based bb offerings in Germany. In order to be able to avail of them you'd have to upgrade your telephone line first, which will increase your monthly line rental above the Irish € 25 to approx € 33. But then you get rather enticing timed bb offers starting from €0 a month, for 10 hours and a per minute charge of 1 cent thereafter. Or you can get a 30hours per month for € 6.45 with a 0.49cent per minute thereafter.There are four pages of offers on this website here No volume caps. No set up costs.

Those timed offers, while ridiculous when you think about them, can be of some use to some folk.

There are also a lot of volume capped offers, also starting from €0 a month.
Interesting are some new "intelligent" volume capped offers: After having used up the bought volume, the user is not charged additionally, but the speed is reduced to 128 up and down for the rest of the month.

Eircom is not serious with this offer. It's only there to pretend to do something about getting new bb customers. Eircom is happy to for each and every "free" dial-up and "net subscription" dial-up and "pre-paid hours" user. 40% of the population are forced to do with this day-time robbery and Eircom has no financial interest to entice the ones who could get bb away from the money spinning Internet access they currently are on.

Up to now nearly each and every new packages PR fart of Eircom got some positive comment from ComReg and/or the DCMNR. Nothing heard this time so far.

P.

Solair

There are a few things here:

I'd be very concerned that the launch of this product will see a complete end to the concept of always-on broadband at the lower end of the market. All it would take is for BT and a few others to jump on the same bandwaggon and we're back to pay-per-min dial up, just with 1mbit/sec modems rather than 56K.


On the costs side of it I don't believe that this product costs eircom any less to provide, in fact, I'd think it will actually cost them more as they'll have to integrate complex billing and monitoring infrastructure.

The media also has to wake up to the fact that there are other broadband providers out there. From the kind of coverage we're getting you'd sware that eircom were still Telecom Eireann and that they're the only show in town. There is a similar inability to notice Meteor's products in the mobile sector. I've seen articles and heard commentry talk about O2 and Vodafone and just pretend that Meteor doesn't even exist or is some sort of toy phone company used by kids only. Lazy business journalists living off press releases!

The major fear that most irish consumers seem to have about the internet is that they can't predict their monthly usage bills. We've had a long tradition of over-priced per-min access via modem and ISDN and it's scared people off. The reality of it is that in most households, the internet's used by the younger members of the family and parents, who are often not very IT savvy, are not able to monitor or control usage and thus costs. I know a lot of families who had their ISP accounts canceled and their modems thrown in the bin after recieving a 400+ euro telephone bill from eircom. Some of those people were stung so badly that it'll take a LOT of reassurance before they'd ever consider using the internet again.

What we need is a cheap flatrate product! if eircom want to really make money out of broadband they should do it by providing products via broadband... I know they've got their music store etc but they're not doing enough to promote services that they could have huge revenues from. E.g. in France, France Telecom offers video on demand, legal movie downloads, music downloads, software downloads etc etc..

If mobile companies like Vodafone make major money on content, why can't fixed line providers do the same over broadband?

Eircom seems tied to and incapable of seeing beyond the old-style telephone company approach of charging for simple access services on a per min basis. They're simply not innnovating and in the long run they're going to pay for it.

They're still stuck in the same mindset they had when big black phones with dials were all the rage and subscriber trunk dialling was the new thing.

I remember quite recently having an eircom sales person push Call Waiting like it was a "new thing"... I have had it since 1984! I mean, come on... wake up!!!

I'll probabally still be getting calls about "HiSpeed" ISDN in 2075!

SkepticOne

These sorts of products are simply a consequence of Eircom still pretty much having a monopoly. A monopolist will always try to get as much money as possible from as many different groups of people as possible. This means offering versions of services that have been crippled in various ways at lower prices. The reason for the crippling is to preserve revenue from the non-crippled versions.

The time-based limitation on the 20 euro product has very little cost justification. Its purpose is to keep those who want always-on paying a much higher price while getting some extra income from those who are willing to pay 20 euros but don't mind being time-limited. I know people who would actually go for this.

Eircom are only doing this because they control the "competition" through controlling the wholesale services from which the vast majority get their broadband. BT, UTV et al will be given the choice to take it or leave it. I would see them taking it and reselling it but this does not really matter to Eircom.

There is no point in giving out to Eircom that this product is not what we want. The whole point of offering the product is that it is unattractive to normal broadband users.

The only way of dealing with this is to have proper competition.

dub45

SkepticOne wrote:

These sorts of products are simply a consequence of Eircom still pretty much having a monopoly. A monopolist will always try to ...................................
Eircom are only doing this because they control the "competition" through controlling the wholesale services from which the vast majority get their broadband. BT, UTV et al will be given the choice to take it or leave it. I would see them taking it and reselling it but this does not really matter to Eircom.

I wonder will this product be attractive to BT and UTV as a wholesale product? As the previous poster mentioned it might be quite a costly product to the provider because of the complex billing invovled?

Solair

We all know what BT's billing system is like! I doubt they'd like to add more complications to it ... It may go up in a puff of smoke.. I can see BT bills scattered all over ballsbridge!

SkepticOne

The point I wanted to make was that if resellers go with it, the time restriction should be applied to them too. If they don't go with it, so much the better for Eircom, of course, but if they do go with it, at least they won't be offering "always on" at 20 euros.

To a certain extent, the resellers have an interest in going with the time restriction anyway. They also have revenue to protect at higher price points. Resellers are not competitors of Eircom but rather take a share in the Eircom monopoly.