Eircoms Next Special Offer Yellowpack BB 20 Hours a Month

damien

crawler wrote:

Ex BT engineer now NCT test dude eyes Adam's Mechanically propelled Motor vehicle with both glee and suspicion as it chugs in the door...

If that's the case he'll never get a bill, which is handy. But, back on topic...

Chalk

so is it true that the cost of this product is limited to a max of 50eu per month?
is it also true that its uncapped data wise...

might be putting 1 and 1 together and getting 3 here,
but,
do you technically have eircoms first unlimited use home dsl product?

crawler

Chalk wrote:

so is it true that the cost of this product is limited to a max of 50eu per month?
is it also true that its uncapped data wise...

might be putting 1 and 1 together and getting 3 here,
but,
do you technically have eircoms first unlimited use home dsl product?

They thought of that, hence the disconnect after 10 mins non use. it's not "always on" it's not real broadband. Good spot none the less though!

realraven

bk wrote:

Or BT, Always On plus line rental for €50 per month, this costs exactly the same as Eircoms time limited product when you include line rental, (€25 + €24.50).
Why anyone would want to go for this is beyond me. Of course some will, due to the big marketing Eircom will probably do

Can't get broadband here but quite happy that I have at least have flatrate dialup (27 € / month) 180 hours - used to be IOL anytime but of course its now owned by BT; of which I am using maximum of 100 hours - very hard to get beyond that, even using GetRight; there's no way that I could do with less than 60 hours / month. I would accept a 1 GByte cap NO PROBLEMO - don't need to pirate all that crap out there. What I need is reliable surfing speed for NGs, googling and email...(SW developer + electronic musician).

20 hours looks like its targeted at the newbie that wants to download pirated movies or mp3s once in a while.

In Germany DSL is now down to 5€ / month, (of course no timecRap) I don't think it will fall any more.

Morgoth

Complaint sent to the ASAI. Not only is it not always-on, the radio adverts at least don't even mention the 20 hour limit. It's just advertised as eircom broadband time for €20 a month.

The ad has been on TodayFM at about 8:22am the last two mornings btw.

Gone West

"Broadband is an always-on Internet connection that gives you high-
speed
access and downloads for a flat rate monthly charge"
(from the irish government's description of broadband internet)
Eircom are advertising a timed broadband internet, which is not always on. This conflicts with the governments description of broadband.

(source :http://www.broadband.gov.ie/bbinfo/Broadband_WhatIs.aspx)

Thanks,

snappieT

I've sent the following complaint to the ASAI. Feel free to copy it verbatim

This advertisement states that eircom have a new "broadband" product called "Broadband Time". This is a high-speed internet access product that is charged based on the number of hours spent using it.
According to the definition of "broadband" on the Government website: (http://www.broadband.gov.ie/bbinfo/Broadband_WhatIs.aspx) "Broadband is an always-on Internet connection that gives you high-speed access and downloads for a flat rate monthly charge"
In eircom's product not being always on (since it is billed per hour) and not a flat rate monthly charge, the fact that the product is being marketed as a broadband product is misleading. The use of the word "broadband" in the product title is also misleading.
Although I would not fall prey to this scam personally, many of my clients (I am a computer services supplier) would, thus yielding problems for them that I believe is due to the misleading advertising on eircom's part.

Thank you for your time, I trust this issue will be dealt with as soon as possible.
Sincerely,
xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

The url is here: http://www.asai.ie/complaint.tmpl

parasite

a government definition isn't really binding, is it ? 'broadband' can be whatever the hell eircon want it to be

eircomtribunal

parasite wrote:

a government definition isn't really binding, is it ? 'broadband' can be whatever the hell eircon want it to be

While the government definition is not binding, their definition is merely one example of many generally acknowledged definitions of broadband, which all include the "always-on" feature.

McRedmond can use whatever definition he likes when he is on the loo etc, but not in general advertising.

Another major feature of the product is the fact that a 12 hour overrun of the 20 hours will cost an additional € 30 should not stay unmentioned in advertising for the product. It is too substantial a fact as to be merely hidden under "terms and conditions apply".

It would help if more people would take the time and make a complaint to ASAI (easy on the online form www.asai.ie). While this company is mostly a useless fig-leave for the industry, it still has some smallish impact.

Complaints should also be made to ComReg. They should be asked how charging €30 for 12 hours of overrun can be cost orientated.
ComReg have so often endorsed miserly product announcements of Eircom, they should get encouraged to publicly speak out about this one. ComReg are under ministerial direction to promote affordable, always-on broadband.

P.

damien

The Minister should also be made aware of this deceptive product which will probably be used more to inflate broadband uptake figures than anything else.

Morgoth

Just sent a complaint to comreg as well. New products like this really p*ss me off while I await for my exchange to be upgraded. ;/

Hi,

I'm sure you're aware of eircom's new "broadband" product, eircom broadband time. 20 euro a month for a 1Mbit/s connection up to a maximum of 20 hours. And... then a charge of €2.40 an hour thereafter up to a maximum of €50 a month.

Let's list out the bad aspects of this product:

1) 1 hour of internet access costs €1. In comparison, my FRIACO access (which is of course a weaker offering than other countries which offer 24/7 unlimited dial-up flat rate access) gives me 180 hours of access for €27 a month. Yeah it's a slower connection, but come on, the new eircom product is woeful value. It's fine for someone who wants a fast connection for a few hours a week (albeit still really expensive for the hours it offers) but it's stiflingly restrictive if such a user takes a liking to their fast connection and wishes to spend more time online.

2) €1 euro an hour for a max of 20 hours is bad enough, but then it's €2.40 an hour thereafter. How can this be good value for the consumer? What about the low-use person who gets the product and then goes 10 or 12 hours over the limit because they enjoy the benefits that a high bandwidth net connection offers? It's only available to new customers, which makes it appear almost as if eircom are trying to trick people who may not be aware of the benefits of broadband into a cheaper product and then fleecing them if they go over the 20 hour limit. Suddenly they are hit with a hefty €50 bill. This isn't even mentioned in the radio adverts that I've heard. It's advertised as eircom broadband time, for €20 a month. Ridiculous, not only is the product a rip-off for what it offers, eircom are misleading the non-tech savvy general public.

3) It's not even broadband. One of the commonly accepted terms to describe broadband is "always-on", as used on the government site (http://www.broadband.gov.ie/bbinfo/Broadband_WhatIs.aspx). How can you describe 20 hours of internet access per month - which is an identical scenario to a few years back when Irish net users had to watch the online clock as per minute charges were the norm - as "broadband"? This is clearly misleading consumers who may know no better, and in relation to this matter I've already made a complaint to the ASAI about the product advertising.

Comreg is supposed to promote affordable, widespread, broadband Internet access in Ireland. I would expect that Comreg won't afford this new eircom product any good press - quite the opposite I hope. It will do nothing except inflate broadband penetration figures on a temporary basis while encouraging a return to the days when everyone had to watch the time spent online in the pay per minute access model. Nobody wants that. Except eircom.

flashcash5

Hi all, have been reading this the past few days, can't say i'm for this kinda lark in almost every way, smart work by eircom in a way, interesting twist, might get a few bob outta this one.
But as regards these modems that they're sending out, does anyone have one or have a link to some technical specs? Would be interesting to know more about it. I had a look on the netopia and eircom site, not sure of the model so can't find it. The adverts do not state that they're dispatching them with free built in wireless functionality, can anyone confirm this? New customers being attracted by the offer will have a go and not secure their new fancy gadget from outsiders, bringing joy to some and a hefty 50 euro bill from eircom to johnny newcomer..

Chalk

crawler wrote:

They thought of that, hence the disconnect after 10 mins non use. it's not "always on" it's not real broadband. Good spot none the less though!

sorry this thread isnt showing up in my sub list,
but whats to stop me getting my own dsl modem and hijacking this service to my own ends if its a mdeom thing?

also there are plenty of freeware apps from dialup days that spoof an active connection to keep you net connected if its something at their end.

cgarvey

Chalk wrote:

but whats to stop me getting my own dsl modem and hijacking this service to my own ends if its a mdeom thing?

The time limit isn't enforced by the modem. The modem just has a convenience feature to disconnect you automatically after a period of non-use (with 10 minutes being the alleged figure). Connect your own modem, or use the pocket modem the BB Time comes with and stay connected. Either way, you face a hefty bill at the end of the month!

.cg

Mr_Man

As a response to Eircom's piece last week Tom Hickey of Alto is given a chance to give their point of view in this week Irish Times Business Section. He comments on the new Eircom time based product in his piece:

The recently introduced pay-as-you-go products are not likely to have a dramatic impact on take-up. A consumer who switches on their modem for little more than an hour each evening to check their e-mail and find some information will be charged more for using the pay-as-you-go product than they would using some existing flat rate packages.

This model eliminates one of the key features of broadband - that it is always on and the consumer doesn't need to be watching the clock. Even us of the internet for making cheap phone calls (VoIP) needs flat rate broadband access to be attractive. A radically different pricing model will be required if the pay-as-you-go model is to have any impact.

I'm sure stifling VoIP was a bonus for Eircom when they came up with this plan. The overall article talks about the need for effective LLU, and for a decent regulatory reigme.

M.

viking

Tom Hickey comment piece in full

Network access needs tough regulation

Comment: Few people, if any, can have missed the constant attention that has been given to the general subject of broadband in recent weeks.

The State's performance for availability, penetration rate (the number of connections per capita), price, and speed has been written about extensively, and with good reason - broadband is a critical input to future economic performance, yet the Republic continues to fall behind its European counterparts, putting us at a serious competitive disadvantage.

The Government has set an objective that the State should become a leading knowledge-based, open and competitive economy with emphasis on research and innovation. It is believed this will lead to productivity growth and will ensure that the economy will remain competitive. This view would seem to be supported by many, including the recent report produced by economist Paul Tansey for Microsoft Ireland.

However, despite the Government's best intentions, the recently published IMD World Competitiveness Yearbook shows the Republic having slipped two places from 10th to 12th in its ranking of the world's most competitive economies. The State is slipping behind for internet costs, broadband subscribers and infrastructure, including technology infrastructure (falling from 25th to 32nd place since 2004).

There are many periodic reports available that track the State's relative position for broadband. Whether it's the OECD, the European Competitive Telecommunications Association (ECTA) or other, they all show the same thing - the Republic remains stubbornly at the bottom of the table for broadband penetration.

That percentage growth has been high recently is of little comfort - it is easy to have high percentage growth when working from a low base. The Republic has this in common with other countries such as Greece and Slovakia at the bottom of the table. The latest ECTA report shows penetration in the State at 3 per cent, while the European average is 8.4 per cent.

Availability is also a significant concern. The Republic has not hit 90 per cent, whereas Northern Ireland hit 100 per cent some time ago. Scotland, Wales and other regions that compete with the State for investment are also approaching 100 per cent.

The Government target is to have 400,000 broadband subscribers by the end of 2006, and 500,000 by the end of 2007. The figure stands at approximately 150,000 according to this week's quarterly report from Comreg so, if we are to meet this target, the penetration rate will need to grow by 260 per cent in the next 18 months.

Strong growth over the past year has not been sufficient to hit the target and the growth rate has fallen recently as the free trial offers have ended. It now seems unlikely that the Republic will reach its target without a radical change in the market.

The recently introduced pay-as-you-go products are not likely to have a dramatic impact on take-up. A consumer who switches on their modem for little more than an hour each evening to check their e-mail and find some information will be charged more for using the pay-as-you-go product than they would using some existing flat-rate products.

This model eliminates one of the key features of broadband - that it is always on and the consumer doesn't need to be "watching the clock". Even use of the internet for making cheap phone calls (VoIP) needs flat-rate broadband access to be attractive. A radically different pricing model will be required if the pay-as-you-go model is to have any impact.

One sure way to bring new offers and new pricing for broadband is to have a competitive market but Eircom's competitors need access to the local loop so that they can deliver their own broadband (and voice) services to consumers using DSL. This is called local loop unbundling (LLU) and Eircom has been required to grant this access since 2001.

Yet, despite this, there are less than 3,000 copper lines unbundled. This is less than 0.5 per cent and is among the lowest in the EU.

Eircom has stated in a recent article that, rather than LLU, its competitors prefer to re-sell Eircom's broadband service. Other operators, including Alto members, hold a starkly contrasting view, maintaining that they have been forced to re-sell Eircom's broadband service because they have been obstructed by Eircom in their attempts to obtain proper LLU service.

Eircom has no incentive to make LLU a success as it would mean surrendering control over the copper line to one of its competitors, and it appears that it will frustrate the process at every opportunity. In December 2004, a number of broadband providers requested improvements to the LLU processes, which met with resistance from Eircom.

This led to two directives from the regulator, ComReg, and High Court proceedings by Eircom. Judgment in the case is awaited but, whatever the outcome, the court action has already had the effect of delaying any new processes by six months.

Neither does Eircom currently allow any broadband provider to supply line-sharing with single billing (wholesale line rental). Line sharing and single billing would allow new entrants to provide broadband, voice and line rental services to their customers on a single bill. This would make it easier and simpler for consumers wanting to move their business from Eircom.

Instead, Eircom only permits line sharing, where Eircom continues to bill the customer for line rental.

It's time for tough regulation for access to Eircom's network. With this in place, new competitors will invest and build out their own networks, bringing the choice and innovation that is needed for broadband to take off in the Republic.

Eircom's competitors need equivalence of access to the local loop. This can only be properly achieved if the access network is run as a separate operation, selling access to Eircom and its competitors on an equal basis.

ComReg must be given the powers to make this happen, if necessary by bringing forward primary legislation.

Tom Hickey is chairman of Alto, which represents alternative operators in the communications market.

© The Irish Times

oscarBravo

Tom Hickey wrote:

Availability is also a significant concern. The Republic has not hit 90 per cent...

Wow. Even ALTO are mixing up their 6s and 9s...

zod

Thank you for your query. You comments have been noted for reference.

Regarding any query you may have about misleading advertising, you may
wish to discuss it with the Advertising Standards Authority of Ireland
for their advice. Their contact details are 01 6608766 or www.asai.ie.

:rolleyes:

Chalk

cgarvey wrote:

The time limit isn't enforced by the modem. The modem just has a convenience feature to disconnect you automatically after a period of non-use (with 10 minutes being the alleged figure). Connect your own modem, or use the pocket modem the BB Time comes with and stay connected. Either way, you face a hefty bill at the end of the month!

.cg

a hefty 49.99 maximum bill?

cgarvey

Chalk wrote:

a hefty 49.99 maximum bill?

Yes. In that context, 49.99 is indeed a hefty bill.

Chalk

i dont think your getting me,
eircoms current home offer is 45eu pm capped at 16gigs

why wouldnt i chenge to this new service if for 5 eu more i can get unmetered access?

Mr_Man

When the price rises from €19.99 to €24.99 after the promotional period will the 'cap' on the cost also rise?

M.

Sponge Bob

Chalk wrote:

i dont think your getting me,
eircoms current home offer is 45eu pm capped at 16gigs

why wouldnt i chenge to this new service if for 5 eu more i can get unmetered access?

You will be charged to change, Eircom charge for Downgrades but not for Upgrades.

Why do they see it as a downgrade when you could see it as an upgrade ....one asks

damien

Chalk wrote:

why wouldnt i chenge to this new service if for 5 eu more i can get unmetered access?

Because it is first time users. If you are looking for a capless product you must be planning to download an awful lot. Surely it would be better to get a 2mbps service instead for faster downloads or would you be more into the volume you can download?

eircomtribunal

damien.m wrote:

Originally Posted by Chalk
why wouldnt i chenge to this new service if for 5 eu more i can get unmetered access?

If you are looking for a capless product you must be planning to download an awful lot.

We should get clean on the definition of "flat-rate" or "unmetered".

A service is only then a flat-rate service, if the customer will have to pay the agreed flat-rate at the end of the month.

A product with an overeach billing part, be it for time or traffic volume is not a flat-rate product and should not be advertised or referred to as one. That's why for example Irish FRIACO is not a "flat-rate" service (and as I'm always keen to point out, is therefor a market failure with a dismal stagnant 6% of Internet users).
(Technically the F is for flat rate for the port prices - nothing to do with the consumer side of the product)
FRIACO based services in other countries, albeit with a fair usage agreement (we'll only keep you on the service if you don't use than more than x amounts of hours) are flat-rates and have therefor had a valuable impact on Internet uptake figures.

With regards to broadband, the incumbent's cheapest unmetered or flat-rate service is the € 169(or so)/month +VAT business broadband.

While most users will be perfectly happy with a volume based product, we still should refer to those products as volume based. Otherwise real flat-rate packages of other countries get an unfair price comparison.

The €39.99/month 8 gig volume based eircom broadband package with an overreach price of over € 30 per additional gig of traffic should not be compared price-wise with the €14.95/month unmetered, flat-rate package of say Deutsche Telekom, or an unmetered below €20/month bb offer in France.

P.

Capt'n Midnight

eircomtribunal wrote:

The €39.99/month 8 gig volume based eircom broadband package with an overreach price of over € 30 per additional gig of traffic should not be compared price-wise with the €14.95/month unmetered, flat-rate package of say Deutsche Telekom, or an unmetered below €20/month bb offer in France.

AFAIK you can get naked DSL in Germany , so the DT package is LESS than our line rental. :mad: