Revolution

TheAlmightyArse

No excuse. There's nothing stopping you from mutiny.

rainbow kirby

And you don't think that I push warm Nintendo vibes onto every person who approaches my till?

Draupnir

Surely one of the companies will come up with a buttonless controller, one thats just a touch sensitive pad type thing. Be a lot cleaner, plus youd never get any bogey buttons.

As an aside, didnt Nintendo dream up triggers on the back of their controllers too, for the N64?

Retr0gamer

Dagnir Glaurung wrote:

What are the odds Nintendo have no new big innovation and only fed us this line to give them more time to think of one while grabbing people's interest and not being completely swept aside by the Sony and Microsoft hype machine?

The fact that even Miyamoto has stated that the joypad hasn't been finalised suggests that you could well be right.

As an aside, didnt Nintendo dream up triggers on the back of their controllers too, for the N64?

Yes they did and was a brilliant idea. It's a shame that not even nintendo followed the idea up. It was fantastic for fps games since squeezing a trigger in goldeneye was infinitely for satisfying than squeezing a shoulder button in Halo or MOH.

Draupnir

You dont use shoulder buttons in Halo

Xbox controllers have triggers.

sprinkles

Retr0gamer wrote:

The fact that even Miyamoto has stated that the joypad hasn't been finalised suggests that you could well be right.



Yes they did and was a brilliant idea. It's a shame that not even nintendo followed the idea up. It was fantastic for fps games since squeezing a trigger in goldeneye was infinitely for satisfying than squeezing a shoulder button in Halo or MOH.

shoulder buttons - snes
Rubmle pack, analogue stick, trigger buttons - N64
Touche Screen - DS
Handheld link - GC + GBA/GBSP
Wireless Controller - GC

Hmmmm innovations in controller design by Sony/MS

eh......... giant unconfortable controller - Xbox (all right they fixed it)
and.....umm.......(imo) stupidly placed analogue sticks - Playstation 2

Now I own all 3 and I have to admitt I am a fan of ninty but only because they try different thinkgs (and they produce zelda and mariokart :-))

I mean look at the ds, cheap and fun. What more do you want. I'll buy an ipod if I want to play music, I'd prefer to watch movies on my tv at home (a sony one :-)) and if it comes down to gameplay how can you beat the likes of warioware touched and mariokart with touch screen. Sorry if this sounds fanboyish, I am currently addicted to my xbox apart from the daily PES sessions on the PS2 but you have to admitt that Ninty are at the forfront of inovation and that alone is getting me all excited when they throw around words like revolution when talking about their new controller.

Draupnir

giant unconfortable controller - Xbox

cant agree with that one sprinkles, i can only use my large Xbox pad and im still upset that ya cant buy them anywhere anymore. small hands are the problem rather than giant pad.

BloodBath

Your not exactly right there sprinkles, sony and microsoft had touch sensitive buttons on their pads. That was an innovation. I personally prefer the smaller x-box pad to any other tbh with the cube ones coming a close second.

sprinkles

Yes... us humans are cursed with our puny hands

each to their own i suppose but my general point was that they didn't bring anything new to the table. They just rehashed what was there already, whcih was the safe option.

Retr0gamer

BloodBath wrote:

Your not exactly right there sprinkles, sony and microsoft had touch sensitive buttons on their pads. That was an innovation. I personally prefer the smaller x-box pad to any other tbh with the cube ones coming a close second.

Yep, an innovation by Sega on the shoulder buttons on the Dreamcast.

Innovations by Sony: Play catch up to Nintendo by lumping 2 analogue sticks on to an already uncomfortable pad.

Innovations by Microsoft: Playing thumb twister to reach the black and white buttons.

Less of the sarcasm. Microsoft did give us an excellent console on-line service and Sony, although not always successful, have brought out quite a few niche games from their in house teams and gave us the Eyetoy which seemed to get Nintendo in a tizzy.

As for the shoulder triggers for Halo, they are nice and all but the thing about the N64 pad was that you held it like a gun.

steviec

sprinkles wrote:

shoulder buttons - snes
Rubmle pack, analogue stick, trigger buttons - N64
Touche Screen - DS
Handheld link - GC + GBA/GBSP
Wireless Controller - GC

Yea but most of them were around on PC first. And touch screen isn't all that different to a mouse. It's debatable how much of a contribution some of those things have made too. Handheld link for one is little more than a money spinner.

Also you can attribute Eyetoy(also out on PC first btw), analogue buttons(ditto), the use of optical discs(not exactly innovative but had a bigger impact on what games could do than rumble packs or wireless controllers or handheld links ever could) to Sony.

And X-Box live and everything that goes along with it to Microsoft.

And next gen we see everyone doing wireless, Nintendo playing up their online service, PS3/PSP connectivity, MS having an eyetoy device, everyone's just taking everyone else's best ideas. Its not like eveybody is copying Nintendo.

Considering Nintendo have been in this business a lot longer than Sony and Sony have been in it longer than Microsoft thats a fairly even distribution of each manufacturers contribution to gaming I think.

steviec

Retr0gamer wrote:

Yep, an innovation by Sega on the shoulder buttons on the Dreamcast.

Damn you mentioning the Saturn(and reminding me of the Mega CD) and negating half of what I just said about Sony... Well.. Sony made analogue buttons and optical discs mainstream so, yeah.

Citizen_Erased

Link up ? Money spinner? I do not at all see your reasons for this , in my opinion this is what makes those great , second to there portability. Really , I wouldnt own an sp or a great number of my games if they werent linkable.

steviec

Citizen_Erased wrote:

Link up ? Money spinner? I do not at all see your reasons for this , in my opinion this is what makes those great , second to there portability. Really , I wouldnt own an sp or a great number of my games if they werent linkable.

I was referring to the quote about GBA-GC link up as opposed to GBA-GBA link up. Silly little additions to games, or withholding parts of the game that should be readily available to try and encourage you to buy the portable version aswell. That's the money spinner.

Linking up GBAs for multiplayer is fine. It'd be a crime not to include that. Everything going back to Gamegear and the original Gameboy has had that...

sprinkles

BloodBath wrote:

Your not exactly right there sprinkles, sony and microsoft had touch sensitive buttons on their pads. That was an innovation. I personally prefer the smaller x-box pad to any other tbh with the cube ones coming a close second.

are touch sensitive buttons not just an extension of the trigger buttons which were touch sensitive. In any case sony may be acredited with this(??) and it still is a small contribution.

sprinkles

steviec wrote:

Yea but most of them were around on PC first. And touch screen isn't all that different to a mouse. It's debatable how much of a contribution some of those things have made too. Handheld link for one is little more than a money spinner.

Also you can attribute Eyetoy(also out on PC first btw), analogue buttons(ditto), the use of optical discs(not exactly innovative but had a bigger impact on what games could do than rumble packs or wireless controllers or handheld links ever could) to Sony.

And X-Box live and everything that goes along with it to Microsoft.

And next gen we see everyone doing wireless, Nintendo playing up their online service, PS3/PSP connectivity, MS having an eyetoy device, everyone's just taking everyone else's best ideas. Its not like eveybody is copying Nintendo.

Considering Nintendo have been in this business a lot longer than Sony and Sony have been in it longer than Microsoft thats a fairly even distribution of each manufacturers contribution to gaming I think.

Surely we're talking about inovations to console gaming. True some of these had been around on the pc first but weren't accessible to the masses or compatible with popular games

Jim

A loyal Nintendo fan I'll be dissapointed if they don't bring out something amazing for Revolution, I wouldn't like to see them going down the tubes. I don't play console games at all anymore (might change when online console gaming becomes better) so for now I probably wont be buying a nex gen console, but I'm still following the Revolution development.

On a side note I laughed at the PS controler when they chucked the analogue sticks on it. I've absolutly no idea how people use them at all. The SNES was always my favourite controller (does anyone else find the term "joypad" disturbing) with the GC second for its lurvly analogues. A guy in the office was looking at this thread over my shoulder and when he saw the fake Revolution controller he stated he thought the PS analogue controller was the best one of any console ever... I really don't understand it.

MrPinK

sprinkles wrote:

Surely we're talking about inovations to console gaming. True some of these had been around on the pc first but weren't accessible to the masses or compatible with popular games

But you can hardly call them innovations then if they were just lifted from a PC.

tman

steviec wrote:

Damn you mentioning the Saturn(and reminding me of the Mega CD) and negating half of what I just said about Sony... Well.. Sony made analogue buttons and optical discs mainstream so, yeah.

you do realise the playstation was originally meant to be a mega cd style addon for the snes?

super_furry

Nintendo seem to be good at selling people games that they bought a decade ago - the GBA for example. Can't say I'm too excited by the prospect a console whose main attraction seems to be letting you fork out for games you beat years ago.

rainbow kirby

Draupnir wrote:

giant unconfortable controller - Xbox

cant agree with that one sprinkles, i can only use my large Xbox pad and im still upset that ya cant buy them anywhere anymore. small hands are the problem rather than giant pad.

/me actually finds the Xbox S controller too big...

monument

Do you have extra small hands or something?

On that note, unlike most people’s dislike of the PS3 controller, I think the longer bits might solve my problem with the current design.

Ri_Nollaig

i think these "who came up with this innovation" argument pointless
it should be who has made the best use of them
like back in the day Apple sued Micro$oft for copying the WIMP idea but apple just copied Xerox to begin with...
some goes for alot of these consoles ideas, nintendo may/may not have come with the idea orginaly but doesnt make it wrong when someone else just does it better

rainbow kirby

monument wrote:

Do you have extra small hands or something?

Quite possibly.
I saw an extra-small MadKatz controller, a MicroCon, for Xbox in HMV in town today. Was half tempted to try it... I'm currently playing through Halo in short stints because my left hand cramps up from the S controller after about an hour.

sprinkles

Without nintendo trying new things with their controller design and games then I think we'd only be looking at force feedback in controllers for the next gen consoles. Same goes for analogue sticks. Ninty could have easily sat back and said "right, let someone else come up with new ideas and we'll nick them".

As regards to the fact that some of the ideas came from the pc, that doesn't mean it wasn't inovative to apply those ideas to a console. The fact is that ninty took the risk and chanced their arm by bringing the rumble pack, analogue sticks (which some people still hate) to the console world, 2 things which I could not dream of being with out while sitting infront of my xbox/PS2/GC.

Sega tried something similar with the tamagotchi style memory card unit that plugged into the joypad (I see what yoy mean about that word), they took a chance and to all intents and purposes it did what they wanted but never really took off outside Japan. I praise them for trying though. IF it had of worked you'd be seeing MS and sony with something very similar in their joypad designs.

Scruff

people! ye are not thinking outside the box. dont be constrained by convention. Me thinks the new controller will be something like this http://www.virtalis.com/product_info.php?products_id=89 It going to be all about movement of your entire hand and arm, not just your thumb and forefinger.

/edit can someone pm me and tell me how to get the hyperlink working so that a title will be displayed instead of the address?? been annoying me for ages, cant remember how to do it.:o

flogen

Scruff wrote:

people! ye are not thinking outside the box. dont be constrained by convention. Me thinks the new controller will be something like this http://www.virtalis.com/product_info.php?products_id=89 It going to be all about movement of your entire hand and arm, not just your thumb and forefinger.

/edit can someone pm me and tell me how to get the hyperlink working so that a title will be displayed instead of the address?? been annoying me for ages, cant remember how to do it.:o

You mean the PowerGlove 2?!!

Scruff

ah yes, i knew i was thinking there was some connection between nintendo and vr gloves alright, never seen or used the old one though.(http://www.armchairarcade.com/aamain/content.php?article.39)

ye never know, its been 16 years since the first attempt was launched and that was for the NES! There's no need nowadays for all that scaffolding for the ultrasonic detectors so ye never know, the Power Glove could just have been too ahead of its time. If it is a new version of the Power Glove, will it not be more a case of evolution rather than revolution???

Citizen_Erased

Doubt it will be anything close to that , they more than likely need supercomputers to make them run . Just think of all the collision calculations etc...

Retr0gamer

Scruff wrote:

ye never know, its been 16 years since the first attempt was launched and that was for the NES! There's no need nowadays for all that scaffolding for the ultrasonic detectors so ye never know, the Power Glove could just have been too ahead of its time

It wasn't. It was just crap.