New Rules for 2008

Curran

So lads.......there are new rules that "might" proposed for 2008

Read these articles and let me know your opinions on the matter!

Possible new Rules for 2008

Cost Cutting

Curran

* a massive reduction in aerodynamic downforce, to approximately 10 percent of current levels

Interesting!

* an increase in car width to prevent a corresponding reduction in drag and thereby keep straightline speeds in check

Hmmmm.....isnt the sport about speed!!

* increased mechanical grip through a return to slick tyres

SCORE.....definately bring them back.....groved tyres look SH*TE!!

* a single tyre supplier

Bring back Goodyear... ...2 tyre companies is interest....but then with 1 at least everyone is on an even par!

* a ban on tyre-warming blankets

Whats the point??.......Do we want another Senna incident....EH NO :mad:

* the banning of exotic materials and introduction of a host of standardised components

So where can teams get that lil advantage need from clever engineering?

* a standard FIA-issued Electronic Control Unit to enable the elimination of electronic driver aids such as traction control

Yeah get rid of traction control.....so much more interesting seeing cars hanging out the back end & get tank slappers!

* the introduction of standard gearboxes, with manual gear changing and foot-operated clutches

Every race car should be like this....wheres the skill otherwise!

* a ban on pits-to-car telemetry and strict control of data acquisition systems

You have to have this.......we are in the technology era!

* a testing limit of 30,000km per team between January 1 and December 31 (subject to a single tyre supplier being appointed)

Ferrari wont be happy about this!

* the banning of spare cars

Bit harsh...crash in practice and no points for the race weekend!

* teams being allowed to purchase chassis (as well as engines) on a customer basis

Hmmm.....interesting!

muckwarrior

FFS, won't be long before Max Mosely bans engines and makes the drivers use pedal power!

Curran

muckwarrior wrote:

FFS, won't be long before Max Mosely bans engines and makes the drivers use pedal power!

........fred flintstone engines!

aidan_dunne

Some of these rules, I would gladly welcome. Others I think sound ridiculous.

Ban on spare cars - stupid.

Wider cars and reintroduction of slicks - great! I've never liked the look of the post-'98 narrower cars and those sh!te-looking "tractor thread" tyres.

Manual gearchanges with driver-operated clutches - kind of undecided about this. Would be good in terms of emphasizing driver's skill when it comes to gearchanging, and could also lead to more passing through the old "missed-gear symdrome", but it's bad in terms of technology. Makes F1 looks less technological. I'll have to think about this one, I think.

Standardised parts - no, no, no! This is supposed to be F1, not Formula Renault or some similar single-make championship. Some standardised parts I would agree with, (the ECU's to eliminate traction control, perhaps wheels from a single supplier like OZ Racing or BBS or whatever, maybe, just maybe, even standard brakes from a single supplier like Carbone Industries or Brembo or someone) but don't go too over the top with it.

Testing limits - yes, I agree with this, to a certain extent. Can't see Ferrari agreeing with it, though!

Reduction in downforce - I agree, but not so much that the cars look incredibly slow going around corners as a result. There's nothing like the sight of an F1 car tearing around a corner at breakneck speed. Reduce the downforce too much, and they won't be able to do this. What I would like to see would be, not so much a "reduction" in downforce, but a change in the way downforce affects the car and, in particular, the cars following behind. If there was some way to redesign the wings to give the cars lots of downforce to go around a corner fast, but eliminate the "dirty-air" effect on the cars behind, therefore allowing them to get closer and increase the chances of overtaking, now that's what I would like to see.

Single tyre supplier - undecided as yet about this as well.

Needless to say, I can see a lot of arguments ahead and changes to these proposed rules being made before they are finalised for 2008, that's for sure!

Curran

aidan_dunne wrote:

What I would like to see would be, not so much a "reduction" in downforce, but a change in the way downforce affects the car and, in particular, the cars following behind. If there was some way to redesign the wings to give the cars lots of downforce to go around a corner fast, but eliminate the "dirty-air" effect on the cars behind, therefore allowing them to get closer and increase the chances of overtaking, now that's what I would like to see.

Is that possible though?.........is the air that passes the back of anything moving (whatever shape it is), always going to be turbulant anyways?

Perhaps there might be a way of reducing the turbulant air compared to the amout of "dirty air" there currently is flowing behind the car in front!

mad m

Is it in there also that they want teams to manage on 30million like minardi instead of 200/300million that the tops teams spend.

Capt'n Midnight

How about having standard controls on the cars. Then half the drivers in a lottery just before each race to see which car they drive. So every second race each driver is in the team car.

muckwarrior

Curran wrote:

Is that possible though?.........is the air that passes the back of anything moving (whatever shape it is), always going to be turbulant anyways?

Perhaps there might be a way of reducing the turbulant air compared to the amout of "dirty air" there currently is flowing behind the car in front!

I'm no expert on aerodynamics, but I reckon if they severely limit the downforce generated by the top of the car (front/rear wing etc), but let the teams develop whats generated from beneath the car (diffuser) then I'd say this would lead to a significant reduction in the turbulant air behind the car. Combine that with fat slick tyres and I'd say there'd be way more overtaking.

oneofakind32

so if the cars are wider and the downfource is 10% of what it is now we are going to have increibly wide cars with a the front wing running about 2 feet of the ground and being about a foot and a half form end plate to end plate and a rear wing with 1 eliment. Theese cars look bad enough already

weemcd

??

pred racer

aidan_dunne wrote:

Reduction in downforce - I agree, but not so much that the cars look incredibly slow going around corners as a result. There's nothing like the sight of an F1 car tearing around a corner at breakneck speed. Reduce the downforce too much, and they won't be able to do this. What I would like to see would be, not so much a "reduction" in downforce, but a change in the way downforce affects the car and, in particular, the cars following behind. If there was some way to redesign the wings to give the cars lots of downforce to go around a corner fast, but eliminate the "dirty-air" effect on the cars behind, therefore allowing them to get closer and increase the chances of overtaking, now that's what I would like to see.

I will agree with any rule that stops the dirty air syndrome effect. if you have a quicker car and you are a better driver then you have to have the chance to overtake. otherwise we might as well do qualifying, put the cars on a rolling road and if it doesnt blow up over the race distance, you get the points for your start position.

and yes the driver should have to drive the car not just hold the wheel!

Dempsey

I think they havent gone far enough with the manual gears, clutch and traction control. That crappy little button that the drivers have for limiting the speed coming into the pits should be done away it and any electronic aids of this fashion. I think the cars electronics are reducing driver error too much. I want to see the drivers work harder for those tenths of a second.

Parts that could be changed and not picked up by inspection before/after the race i think should be standardised but not all parts then there is very little creativity left for the teams.

* a ban on pits-to-car telemetry and strict control of data acquisition systems

If its the pits adjusting things on the car whilst the car is racing then ban it.

Bring back the slicks and have as many tyre manufacturers as possible. Then like engines if have unreliable/poor ones, its yer own problem.

stevenmu

muckwarrior wrote:

I'm no expert on aerodynamics, but I reckon if they severely limit the downforce generated by the top of the car (front/rear wing etc), but let the teams develop whats generated from beneath the car (diffuser) then I'd say this would lead to a significant reduction in the turbulant air behind the car. Combine that with fat slick tyres and I'd say there'd be way more overtaking.

I agree with this and would like to see it, but the problem with it would be that downforce generated under the car relys on the car staying stuck to the ground, if it lifts of you get a huge and sudden loss of downforce. I'm no expert either but I think this can even happen when hitting some of the bigger curbs which could lead to a lot of spin offs.

Dempsey wrote:

I think they havent gone far enough with the manual gears, clutch and traction control. That crappy little button that the drivers have for limiting the speed coming into the pits should be done away it and any electronic aids of this fashion. I think the cars electronics are reducing driver error too much. I want to see the drivers work harder for those tenths of a second.

I agree in general about electronic aids, but the pit lane limiter is more of a safety feature to protect pit crews. If there is going to be a standard ECM it could possibly made part of that so it affects all drivers equally.

MrPudding

Dempsey wrote:

That crappy little button that the drivers have for limiting the speed coming into the pits should be done away it and any electronic aids of this fashion.

It's not like they have speedos in the cars. How will they know what speed they are going at?

stevenmu wrote:

I agree with this and would like to see it, but the problem with it would be that downforce generated under the car relys on the car staying stuck to the ground, if it lifts of you get a huge and sudden loss of downforce. I'm no expert either but I think this can even happen when hitting some of the bigger curbs which could lead to a lot of spin offs.

Was this not decided to be the cause of Senna's crash. I watched a programme on discovery a couple of months ago. They reckoned the problem was similar to what you mentioned, just in the opposite direction. The car bottomed out, this cut off airflow under the car this stopped the car being "sucked" onto the road and it went out of control.

I think there has always been an issue with dirty air but is really seems like it is much bigger now. Apparently the driver are reporting they start to feel the effects 100 meters away.

MrP

SouperComputer

italian court ruled it was mechanical failure on Senna's car only a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.thesennafiles.com/s-files/apelindx.html

TBH I didnt think it was a mechanical failure 1st, but after reading through that website and the evidence given, it looks like the steering column did go. Shocked TBH.

That website is well worth a look, a lot of interesting info there.

As for pit lane speed, you dont need a speedo to tell your speed, like in nascar: Gear + Revs = sorted

Dempsey

stevenmu wrote:

I agree in general about electronic aids, but the pit lane limiter is more of a safety feature to protect pit crews. If there is going to be a standard ECM it could possibly made part of that so it affects all drivers equally.

Forgot about the safety of the pit crew. The engineers could tell them whats 80Kph. e.g. 2nd Gear 15,000rpm = 80Kph. Say have the limiter to 100kph for safety but the driver has to judge 80kph himself.