Irish Players and WoW! Please Read

Drakar

koneko wrote:

... someone polishing their e-penis

Excellent. That's going right beside "You cyber hurt my e-feelings".

TheDoc

WoW skill is nothing to do with what level you or or how far you have porgressed in the game. Any dumb ass can kick the crap outa mobs.

Skill is measured in pvp. I'm not saying I'm good, but I have never met an alliance 1v1 that beat me my level, well i cant remember. I dont duel alot against my fellow horde but id say im about a 60-40 win rate.

Skill is measured in your pvp skills, no Shamen players are skilled cause they are imbalanced and it is wow community knowledge, but people who find ways of beatings shamens have some skillz.

quozl

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote:

Skill is measured in your pvp skills, no Shamen players are skilled cause they are imbalanced and it is wow community knowledge, but people who find ways of beatings shamens have some skillz.

I hope you post on the Blizzard forums too, they desperately need your insight.

BArra

haha

TheDoc

haha.

I think every shamen has to admit they are seriously overpowered in PvP. I am not a mega whiner like on blizzard, cause sure I'm horde so i never fight alliance shamens =D Better with them then against, and I have recently worked my strats of beating paladins and rogues.

But you have to admit that shamens are a little bit imba, they have healing abilities matched by only priests, can tank,can cast, mega useful totems, super melee dmg, big hitpoints,can shift into different shapes that allow different abilities like. Hehe they are all round ownage summed up in a recent fraps video "Life of the pally"

Memnoch

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote:

haha.

I think every shamen has to admit they are seriously overpowered in PvP. I am not a mega whiner like on blizzard, cause sure I'm horde so i never fight alliance shamens =D Better with them then against, and I have recently worked my strats of beating paladins and rogues.

But you have to admit that shamens are a little bit imba, they have healing abilities matched by only priests, can tank,can cast, mega useful totems, super melee dmg, big hitpoints,can shift into different shapes that allow different abilities like. Hehe they are all round ownage summed up in a recent fraps video "Life of the pally"

this mega post has convinced of the need to nerf the overpowered imba shamans in PvP because they can like mega tank ragnaros

Funky

Shaman are pretty balanced, with the frost shock FIX(not nerf whining horde) I think the only thing left to change is the cooldown on earthbind totems.

Ivan

Druids own shamen, for healing.
And in some respects they are better than priests...

In fact, druids own shamen, period.

Dustaz

Ivan wrote:

In fact, druids own shamen, period.

A druid cant outnuke a shaman, or out-melee a shaman. After playing both, id say that a shaman owns a druid. Period. (Although i have to admit i didnt play a shaman up to the level that people say that they start to drop off a little, after lvl 50? ).

Now that the second biggest rogue issue has been dealt with (stun a drinking caster = guarenteed crits for at least 5 seconds - "LOL LEARN TO PLAY UR CLASS AND DONT DRINK LOL ITS WAT ROUGES DO LOL") and the biggest rogue imbalance will not be dealt with (ud rogues), Shaman are next for some tweaking imo. They should not be able to nuke to the degree they can and still have the melee abilities they have. What really annoys me though is the thousand little perks they get from other classes. They already have decent casting, healing and melee and the totems which provide most of the functionality of the paladin blessings and yet they get versions of druids travel form and Natures swiftness, warlocks soulstone (on self), priests mind vision, semi stealth (ok, im reaching with that one) and even a second hearthstone. This stuff might not make them imbalanced pvpwise, but its really annoying to see how much the devs favor them They need a slight nerf, but not as much as paladins need a serious buff.

quozl

Dustaz wrote:

A druid cant outnuke a shaman, or out-melee a shaman. After playing both, id say that a shaman owns a druid. Period. (Although i have to admit i didnt play a shaman up to the level that people say that they start to drop off a little, after lvl 50? ).

That's not how druids win. They keep beating on your while they heal themselves. Then if their mana gets a bit low they go bear form and beat on you some more while their mana regens. A shamans melee dmg against the huge AC of dire bear form is not that impressive. If their health goes a bit low in bear form they use frenzied regeneration. Then when their mana is maxed again they go back to caster and heal themselves. And so on, and so on till you die of old bloody age. They also have NS if they need an instant heal and the godly innervate (although that's useless vs shaman as they should purge it).

A shaman's nukes are ineffecient, fighting a druid they have to spend that mana healing themselves as the druids heals are hugely more effecient than a shamans nukes. They also don't have the burst dmg they'd need to drop a druid from medium health to dead before they can heal themselves.

So basically, a druid doesn't out-nuke or-out melee a shaman. He out-lasts him. And should do so pretty easily. Not that I think druids need nerfing either, I just think they're currently one of the best pvp class.

TheDoc

I have full confidence in Blizzard. After playing warcraft 3 for years they always balance things right. It just takes time.

Ivan

quozl wrote:

That's not how druids win. They keep beating on your while they heal themselves. Then if their mana gets a bit low they go bear form and beat on you some more while their mana regens. A shamans melee dmg against the huge AC of dire bear form is not that impressive. If their health goes a bit low in bear form they use frenzied regeneration. Then when their mana is maxed again they go back to caster and heal themselves. And so on, and so on till you die of old bloody age. They also have NS if they need an instant heal and the godly innervate (although that's useless vs shaman as they should purge it).

A shaman's nukes are ineffecient, fighting a druid they have to spend that mana healing themselves as the druids heals are hugely more effecient than a shamans nukes. They also don't have the burst dmg they'd need to drop a druid from medium health to dead before they can heal themselves.

So basically, a druid doesn't out-nuke or-out melee a shaman. He out-lasts him. And should do so pretty easily. Not that I think druids need nerfing either, I just think they're currently one of the best pvp class.

Couldnt of said it better myself...

well actually, you can keep a shaman permanently rooted and kill him with moonfire or wrath, if your so inclined. Big deal, he earthshocks and you take the time to get in a quick heal. Then you have natures grasp for the time he does get close enough to melee,
Once he's OOM, you bear form for the win.
Shaman are easy prey

Dustaz

Yeh, i know exactly how a druid fights having played one to 60. Sorry the confusion lies in my statement 'shaman owns druid'. I mean the shaman class is just plain better and more fun. Druids will win almost every 1v1 in the game (i remember warlocks and shadow priests being difficult) but tend to be not as usefull in group pvp.

NeoSlicerZ

I had a 10 minute fight with a druid... longest fight ever, ended running him oom (devoured his inervate), me on 30% hp and 10% mana, and he running away in travel form

Playboy

Memnoch wrote:

It's pretty cool actually. When we were killing all the raid bosses first this is exactly the kinda tripe affliction were spamming all the time, "denied are a PvE guild, lets wait for BG's etc." Yet when they finally managed to kill something in MC, they all ran into IRC to brag about it (well done one month late affliction), and the same when they got onyxia. Such is often the hypocrisy of people who spew this kind of nonsense.
Off course it just so happened that we also happened to do pretty damn well in PvP as well, as well as BG's (when we actually manage to get in)

Killing raid bosses requires organisation, and weather some ppl like it or not that's one of the "measures" of success in an MMORPG. Just like being first to level 60 counts for something. First of all this isn't counter strike, or quake, it's an MMORPG, and thus the achievements by which guilds/players are ranked include defeating raid bosses.

In reality there is very little "skill" involved in MMORPGs. There is more to them then just pointing and clicking fast. Having good micro is definately an asset, but there are numerous other features that are important when it comes to being a "good" player. Team work on a large scale is one of these.

ofc you're very welcome to your view that killing raid bosses means nothing, but there are lots of players who play wow that would disagree with you on that.

Most of the time when dealing with PvE encounters you are dealing with predictable outcomes. PvE requires you to pay attention and do your job. PvP is a different matter, you have to think on your feet and deal with any number of outcomes or attacks ... the best players will always be easily noticed by how they perform in PvP. If you want to believe something like being the first to get to 60 or killing a raid boss means you are a skilled player then that’s fine but it doesn’t make it true, all they require is time, numbers and organization.

quozl

Playboy wrote:

If you want to believe something like being the first to get to 60 or killing a raid boss means you are a skilled player then that’s fine but it doesn’t make it true, all they require is time, numbers and organization.

I agree that PvP is one of the main areas players can demonstrate their skill.
However it also seems obvious to me that if there's a number of large guilds (both alliance and horde) all trying to killing the same raid bosses then there must be some skill involved in the fact that one guild is always first.

It can't just be time involved as god knows all the big guilds on bladefist have stupid amounts of time to spend on the game. There has to be a large element of skill involved in how much faster some guilds can learn and counter a (admittedly once learned predictable) PvE encounter.

I'm not claiming PvE is THE way to judge player skill, obviously it isn't. However dismissing it as totally skill-less is a bit silly.

I hope this isn't taken as a "Guild X rocks" post. It's simple meant to be a reply to the , to my mind, silly statements that PvE does not require significant skill while learning new encounters.

Playboy

When an encounter is done for the first time then yes the raid leader can usually be described as having a certain amount of skill .. but after that "how to do the encounter" is all over the net and it only requires participants to follow someone else's strategy.

Take for instance doing Caer Sidi or the dragon on albion DAoC .. have done most of the encounters with 1fg or less .. doesnt take skill .. just that you have people who pay attention and have got a lot of time on their hands.

Funky

I have to agree with Playboy in this. There's no encounter in WoW that hasn't multiple guides written about it already. For example on the US server I play on the top raiding guild BY FAR are a standing joke to the rest of the community because they're a zerg guild led by someone who just drills the encounter's procedure into them and they just do it over and over until they get good at it. Sure I envy the dedication they put to PvE. BUT they got caught up in thinking they were the best, got challenged to a 5v5 for 1000g and got SLAUGHTERED. Even with all their phat loot they were awful players.

Now I'm not saying Denied at like this I have no idea what any Euro guilds are like, but this is a clear example on how you can't judge players skill by their PvE success.

DRakE

hey bern level my priest on bladefist, accounts paid up and everything

Funky

Ewww leveling another priest would kill me. Gimi your account and I'll level an undead lock :P

Woden

quozl wrote:

(although that's useless vs shaman as they should purge it).

root, travel form out of range and innervate ftw

as a druid i win some loose some against shamans but on my way to sixty i used to get owned by them. knowing my class more now helps. i can typically out mana them and then its death for them. recently started using the bear more and currently have ac up to 8400 with a good few more bits that will help to get and out lasted them that way as well.

data

DapperGent

I found changing factions left me not minding leveling up again but I only got to 45 or so in the US as Alliance. I'd say doing the endgame stuff could be irritating all over again though.

GHOST MGG

my guild on hellscream have done every boss even the world bosses azuergos,teremus etc..the only one we havent killed is ragnaros yet,but were getting there.we hav 38 lvl 60s in our guild and growing,oh and as for pvp im a knight lieutenant:-)

Horsefumbler

quozl wrote:

That's not how druids win. They keep beating on your while they heal themselves. Then if their mana gets a bit low they go bear form and beat on you some more while their mana regens. A shamans melee dmg against the huge AC of dire bear form is not that impressive. If their health goes a bit low in bear form they use frenzied regeneration. Then when their mana is maxed again they go back to caster and heal themselves. And so on, and so on till you die of old bloody age. They also have NS if they need an instant heal and the godly innervate (although that's useless vs shaman as they should purge it).

A shaman's nukes are ineffecient, fighting a druid they have to spend that mana healing themselves as the druids heals are hugely more effecient than a shamans nukes. They also don't have the burst dmg they'd need to drop a druid from medium health to dead before they can heal themselves.

So basically, a druid doesn't out-nuke or-out melee a shaman. He out-lasts him. And should do so pretty easily. Not that I think druids need nerfing either, I just think they're currently one of the best pvp class.

The problem is the shamans 1.5 sec cast healing move and the chain healing that can be done with it. The fact that the druid doesn't really excell in either casting or melee attack is exposed by the shaman because if you don't cause the damage fast they'll just heal themselves out of trouble. as the shaman can hit for some serious amounts of damage in melee combat Bear form is essential for up close combat and although the AC of Dire bear form is good most druids, unless they are feral druids, will have armour with intellect/spirit bonuses and not strength/agility so the damage they do in bear form is crap specially against mail wearing classes. And its much harder to heal yourself against a shaman as the druids healing moves are quite long casts and can easliy be countered by earthshock. If anyone outlasts the other in battle its the shaman tbh.

Mind you I don't think I've fought a shaman 1v1 since i respec'd and got natures swiftness and innervate( I kind of gave up hope), must give it a shot.

Caliden

GHOST MGG wrote:

my guild on hellscream have done every boss even the world bosses azuergos,teremus etc..the only one we havent killed is ragnaros yet,but were getting there.we hav 38 lvl 60s in our guild and growing,oh and as for pvp im a knight lieutenant:-)

my cock's bigger than yours though. gg

Ivan

Horsefumbler wrote:

Mind you I don't think I've fought a shaman 1v1 since i respec'd and got natures swiftness and innervate( I kind of gave up hope), must give it a shot.

rofl.

[edit]
Ferocity Rank 5
Improved Bash Rank 2
Sharpened Claws Rank 3
Feral Charge Rank 1
Feral Combat Total: 11

Balance Mastery
Nature's Grasp Rank 1
Improved Nature's Grasp Rank 4
Improved Entangling Roots Rank 1
Swiftshifting Rank 3
Balance Total: 9

Restoration Mastery
Improved Mark of the Wild Rank 5
Furor Rank 5
Nature's Focus Rank 5
Intensity Rank 5
Reflection Rank 5
Nature's Swiftness Rank 1
Improved Regrowth Rank 4
Innervate Rank 1
Restoration Total: 31
Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60


Is there any other Druid spec?
Actually some people do go for Rank 5 Improved regrowth but ultimately druids dont have much choice for their spec choices. Feral Combat is pretty useless and balance just cant compete with restoration.

With this spec in mind, I find it hard to imagine someone losing to a shaman. The trick is to stay at range using entangling roots, let him burn through his mana with earthshock and heals, then bear form, frenzied regen. Now your back at near full mana in caster form with him almost dead.

I've yet to lose a duel to a shaman.

As for gear, its true most druids use +int gear, but most decent players will have a second set with Agility & strength bonus'.

[/edit]

Kegser

Memnoch, you're some tit.

Of course there's a certain amount of skill involved in large encounters and who kills them first and all the rest of it, but not a great deal.

At the end of the day, people have very specific jobs to do, and once they know what to expect and what they need to do during each encounter it all becomes routine and unexciting.

And inevitably the people who will know what to expect and what to do are the people with the most time to invest in the game. Likewise with levelling, it's all about time, and little about skill. Fair enough a Chinese GrindMastah will probably level faster than your average joe, but that doesn't really indicate anything other than the fact he's a mindless zombie with brittle bones in his fingers and wrists that won't work past the age of 23.

I believe the majority of people really couldn't care less who killed who first, because all it really indicates is a large group of people with a lot of time to play computer games.

And, in closing, I would just like to add; Memnoch, you're a spanner.

Horsefumbler

Ivan wrote:

Is there any other Druid spec? [/edit]

yes I went for subtlety in restoration and i didn't bother with improved natures grasp rank 4 either as its not really nessecary. call me a nublar if you must. hmm actually I probably will respec...

koneko

And Kegser receives a 1 week ban for personal insults.
Let that be a lesson to the rest of ye.

Caliden

well memnoch is a cock.... no question there