US Grand Prix may not happen!

Dempsey

Feenikusu wrote:

LOL! Ralf Schumacher is knocking the stuffing out of the commentators, great!

Dammit dont have ITV, whats he doing?

Total and utter joke from what im hearing, If the bridgestone runners had any sportsmanship they wouldn't have raced but ferrari only care about themselves and not the state of sport. Those clowns running Jordan I have no time for and minardi could be excused because finances maybe dictating. I hate to see teams having to leave the sport because of financial ruin.

Dempsey

lomb wrote:

jordon was always a joke of a team

Jordan for a long time were considered the 3rd best team in F1, they matched that with 3rd in the constructors and this in more competitive times aswell. They brought a lot of class drivers into F1(Both Schumachers). They died a slow death under honda and losing B&H as main sponsors. "Always a joke", I think yer talking bull on that one.

lomb

Dempsey wrote:

. "Always a joke", I think yer talking bull on that one.

eddy was a good con man alright il give him that he had to be to get as far as he did, he knew it was a sinking ship when he sold out.the reality is that F1 is an advertising led business.

i dont think most people know this but when power city take out an ad in the irish times that takes a page it costs 30 grand euros. can u imagine how much money is at stake in f1 with 1 billion people tuning in. we as consumers are a soft target when it comes to getting our attention to sell us something that costs too much because of advetising. eg vodafone who advertise most are the dearest network BY FAR.

mr_angry

I think the only people to blame in this whole disaster are Michellin. How do you 'just take the wrong tyre' to a grand prix? These people are professionals and get paid millions to supply tyres to the teams. To make a mistake like that is a massive fùck up on their part, and robbed the viewing public of any kind of spectacle today.

I don't blame Ferrari - they did nothing wrong all weekend, and came to race as normal. I can't see why they should be punished for doing everything correctly. Similarly, I almost have more respect for Jordan. They tried to put pressure on the FIA to introduce the chicane, but when it became clear that it wasn't going to happen, they too had no reason to abandon the race.

Most surprising outcome of the weekend: BAR now last with 0 points.

Jonny Arson

Was I the only person who wanted to give Tiago Montiero an absolutely massive punch with his celebrating? You achieved absolutely nothing today mate. You're a sh!t driver who is only in F1 because of your wallet. This was the 1st and most definitely the last time you will ever get near a podium.

mad m

mr_angry wrote:

To make a mistake like that is a massive fùck up on their part, and robbed the viewing public of any kind of spectacle today.

I don't blame Ferrari - they did nothing wrong all weekend, and came to race as normal. I can't see why they should be punished for doing everything correctly.

Totally agree on those two points. As the commentry was saying and from what I picked up on there is alot more going on behind the scenes with a couple of power hungry heads.

Ah forget it roll on France 2nd july.Would of loving to see a Minardi come first all the same...Fair play for reliability on there part.

Jonny Arson

mr_angry wrote:

I don't blame Ferrari - they did nothing wrong all weekend, and came to race as normal. I can't see why they should be punished for doing everything correctly.

The buck stops with Michelin and the FIA but Ferrari proved for the 234th time what absolute spoiled w*nkers they are by not agreeing to the introduction of the chicane.

mr_angry

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

The buck stops with Michelin and the FIA but Ferrari proved for the 234th time what absolute spoiled w*nkers they are by not agreeing to the introduction of the chicane.

I admit, that would have been better IMO, but they were under absolutely no obligation to do so.

mad m

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

but Ferrari proved for the 234th time what absolute spoiled w*nkers they are by not agreeing to the introduction of the chicane.

Would you stop Zane!

If half of the line up was on bridgestones istead of just six cars and it was the bridgestone which were having the trouble this weekend,there is no way in hell they would of stopped racing in sympathy for Ferrari and other teams whos tyres let them down.

Sure wasnt it said that bridgestone knew well in advance what the track conditions were going to be like,because of Bridgestones involvement with Nascar.Why didnt Michelin know too?Surely a big company like that would of known.But it was said also that it was a manufacturing fault in the tyres from the production line.

Dempsey

No they werent but they'll go down the ship on that one.

Stoddart has voiced before about a breakaway F1 leaving the likes FIA and Ferrari behind. I think we are now one step closer to seeing this happen, all we need now is a serious **** up by the FIA and it be given serious consideration.

Blackjack

I think the whole Chicane at turn 13 was a bit of a red herring to deflect the attention away from a huge Michelin balls up.
First of all, Michelin knew there was a problem on Friday, could they not have arranged a flight of the tyres from France on Friday night, to arrive on Saturday morning?. It's probably as easy (if not easier) as building a safe and workable Chicane in a morning. Were they not planning a batch that are typically used in Spain to arrive on Sunday?.
Secondly, given that no one had driven the course (let alone raced it) with a Chicane at turn 13, how would that impact the race?. Also, and apparently Mark Webber pointed it out, how would a driver see a chicane given the layout of the track?.
There is a lot of talk about Ferrari not agreeing to a chicane, which I think works out as a successful damage limitation exercise for Michelin. The fact of the matter is, it was their tyres that were not up to racing, and it was them that were responsible for the teams not being able to participate. They were aware of the rules before they got there, and weren't prepared.

Ferrari probably could have done a bit more to meet half way, however, it was not their problem, and I doubt the rest of the teams would have been in any way sympathetic to them had the situation been the reverse.

zAbbo

Blackjack wrote:

First of all, Michelin knew there was a problem on Friday, could they not have arranged a flight of the tyres from France on Friday night, to arrive on Saturday morning?.

Can't change tyres from those already used in practice/qualifying i think, although the rules may have changed on this

mad m

Yup I think you are right bazH,think they said it would be in breech of a few rules.

Blackjack

Got this from an F1 Website:
CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN REPRESENTATIVES OF MICHELIN IN INDIANAPOLIS AND THE FIA FORMULA ONE RACE DIRECTOR
19.06.2005

Letter from Representatives of Michelin to Charlie Whiting, the FIA Formula One Race Director:

Saturday June 18 2005
Indianapolis

Charlie Whiting, FIA Race Director and Safety delegate

Dear Mr Whiting

Having analysed and fully evaluated the tyre failures that have occurred over the Indianapolis Grand Prix practice sessions we have been unable to identify a root cause.

The current rules and timescale do not permit the use of an alternative tyre solution and the race must be performed with the qualifying tyres.

Michelin has in the sole interest of safety informed its partner teams that we do not have total assurance that all tyres that qualified the cars can be used unless the vehicle speed in turn 13 can be reduced.

Michelin very much regrets this situation, but has taken this decision after careful consideration and in the best interests of safety at the event.

We trust that the FIA can understand our position and we remain at your disposal if you want any further information.

Pierre Dupasquier
Michelin Motorsport Director

Nick Shorrock
Director of Michelin F1 activities

Cc:
Bernie Ecclestone
Michelin teams
Ron Dennis (West McLaren-Mercedes)
Flavio Briatore (Mild Seven Renault F1)
Frank Williams (BMW WilliamsF1 Team)
Peter Sauber (Sauber Petronas)
Christian Horner (Red Bull Racing)
Nick Fry (B-A-R Honda)
John Howett (Panasonic Toyota Racing)


Letter from Charlie Whiting, the FIA Formula One Race Director, in reply to above letter from Representatives of Michelin:

19 June, 2005

Dear Mr Dupasquier,
Dear Mr Shorrock,

We have received your letter of 18 June.

We are very surprised that this difficulty has arisen. As you know, each team is allowed to bring two different types of tyre to an event so as to ensure that a back-up (usually of lower performance) is available should problems occur. It is hard to understand why you have not supplied your teams with such a tyre given your years of experience at Indianapolis.

That the teams you supply are not in possession of such a tyre will also be a matter for the FIA to consider in due course under Article 151c of the International Sporting Code.

No doubt you will inform your teams what is the maximum safe speed for their cars in Turn 13. We will remind them of the need to follow your advice for safety reasons. We will also ask them to ensure their cars do not obstruct other competitors.

Some of the teams have raised with us the possibility of running a tyre which was not used in qualifying. We have told them this would be a breach of the rules to be considered by the stewards. We believe the penalty would not be exclusion but would have to be heavy enough to ensure that no team was tempted to use qualifying tyres in the future.

Another possibility would be for the relevant teams repeatedly to change the affected tyre during the race (we understand you have told your teams the left rear is safe for a maximum of ten laps at full speed). If the technical delegate and the stewards were satisfied that each change was made because the tyre would otherwise fail (thus for genuine safety reasons) and that the relevant team were not gaining an advantage, there would be no penalty. If this meant using tyres additional to a teams’ allocation, the stewards would consider all the circumstances in deciding what penalty, if any, to apply.

Finally, it has been suggested that a chicane should be laid out in Turn 13. I am sure you will appreciate that this is out of the question. To change the course in order to help some of the teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tyres.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie Whiting
FIA Formula One Race Director

cc: Bernie Ecclestone
Ron Dennis (West McLaren-Mercedes)
Flavio Briatore (Mild Seven Renault F1)
Frank Williams (BMW WilliamsF1 Team)
Peter Sauber (Sauber Petronas)
Christian Horner (Red Bull Racing)
Nick Fry (B-A-R Honda)
John Howett (Panasonic Toyota Racing)
Jean Todt (Scuderia Ferrari)
Colin Kolles (Jordan Grand Prix)
Paul Stoddart (Minardi F1 Team)

Formula One Press Corps


Certainly seems as if Whiting has several points to make to Michelin.

Capt'n Midnight

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the fact that the track has changed recently ?
Were the teams given enough info on this - Bridgestone seem to have got info from Firestone.

The new surface wears out the tyres out more than it used to.

In all fairness after the crashes Michelin couldn't OK the tyres on safety grounds.

OSiriS

Many people don't seem to realise that the track has been completely resurfaced recently. In fact Champ car and NASCAR races had to be postponed for similar reasons Michelin pulled out. Bridgestone were only able to supply a suitable tyre because they had testing data fro their sister company Firestone. It was a great oversight not being fully prepared, but they were entering this race totally blind.

In Michelin's favor, they put their hand up from the very beginning and admitted that they were at fault, and spent 2 days trying to negotiate a reasonable settlement with their teams even offering to put on a show giving up all points to bridgestone runners. The FIAs suggestion that the Michelin teams take the last corner slow was silly since they would no longer be racing, and in the time scale Michelin would not be able to specify a safe speed.

oneofakind32

Dempsey wrote:

No they werent but they'll go down the ship on that one.

Stoddart has voiced before about a breakaway F1 leaving the likes FIA and Ferrari behind. I think we are now one step closer to seeing this happen, all we need now is a serious **** up by the FIA and it be given serious consideration.

Any breakaway formula will be run by manufacturers and will most certinaly not be bending over backwards trying to cater to small indipendent teams the like of stodart. As F'ed up as the FIA is, I believe they have been doing there best to balance saftey affordablity in recent year, altough I dissagree with there interfierance with the areodynamics of the cars