Formula One: R.I.P.

Curran

Michelin's fault all the way!

Can you imagine Arsenal arriving at Old Trafford saying all our gear go robbed from the bus!......But we are willing to play the game if you let us play in our squad tracksuits and if ya set up goals on the half way line and just play in 1 half of the pitch..........for the sake you the supporters!......Eh NO...Man Utd walk over and 3pts to Man Utd!

Thats exactly what happened at the US GP......yes it was a farce....but thats life!
But you cant blame the Bridgestone teams for running.....they did everything in the same way as the rest of the teams except they had the right tyres!

Michelin should be Fooked out of F1 and Goodyear should take their place if they wanted.....otherwise everyone has Bridgestone rubber on their cars!!

Curran

The FIA were totally correct in what they did!

Consider the options!

* Run the race with a chicane -
What are you going to do...lob one up with cones??
Delay the race...bring in a cement mixer and lob up a DIY job??

Say they did.....Safety is a major issue....safety walls would have to be erected, would the chicane last the full race distance etc etc .....wasnt safety the issue in the first place

* The Michelin teams to run at a reduced speed thru turn 13 -
So what speed could they have run at? You'd have teams running faster thru the corner to make up places....so they'd be all back up to full speed!
OR
Mc Laren decide to take it at 120mph
Renault decide to take it at 125mph
Ferrrari would be zipping thru at full speed
That definately wouldnt work.....major safety issue...back to square 1

* Run a non championship race (FIA pull out their safety car, race director etc etc)
Quite obviously a safety issue........what if someone was to have a brake failure....no medical assistance.....ah well fair play...they put on a good show!

* Michelin's run the race but pit every 10 laps (approx) for a tyre change on the left rear
Michelin couldnt say exactly how many laps the tyres would last (Ralf blew on his 1st flying lap)
You have teams risking running 15 laps for an advantage!
Safety issues again!

* It was suggested the Michelin runners slip down the pit lane instead of around the banked turn 13
14 cars milling into the entrance of the pit lane....all trying to brake late at the pit entrance to put on the limiter :rolleyes:
And the issue of the safety of cars that are pitting for fuel getting back into traffic on the pit lane and what about the teams on the pit walls!
Safety again!

CONCLUSION
No matter what way you look at it, chicane or not, reduced speed or not, tyre changes allowed or not, using the pit lane or not..............all are major safety issues....and in the land of "i'm gonna sue you" the FIA were never ever going to take a silly risk!!!

Michelin's fault....simple as that!

odie

Curran wrote:

Michelin's fault....simple as that!

Michelin have apologised and admitted it was their fault, however there was ample time to put in a chicane as requested, Stick the bridgestone cars at the front of the grid, hell they could have even given the michelin cars a 10 or 20 point penalty before they started.

But the FIA in their wisdom seemed happy to settle for 6 cars running a race rather than all 20. They were told that the cars would not run on safety grounds.

Lets face it, time for the old dictators Bernie and Max to go.

Get rid of these stupid tyre rules, reform F1 and bring back the type of racing we had years ago.

It's not racing anymore it's a parade. Only supposed to be one formation lap, but as far as I can tell....the whole race is a formation.

steviec

odie wrote:

It's not racing anymore it's a parade. Only supposed to be one formation lap, but as far as I can tell....the whole race is a formation.

Seriously, what are you basing that on? This was the first race this season that didn't have a lot of racing and action. Did you watch the Candian Grand Prix? Or the Nurburgring before that? Or Monaco before that?

Because Michelin messed up one weekend doesn't mean that F1 'isn't racing anymore'. It was a regrettable weekend and there'll be steps taken to make sure it won't happen again. Everything certainly isn't rosey in Formula 1 at the moment, the rules are too inconsistent from year to year, but the sport is still healthy and great to watch.

Corben Dallas

Theres loads of overtaking in F1 this year, Heidfield on alonos, Webber on Alonso TWICE!!! and this in Monaco. u must be wathcing a different series

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Get rid of these stupid tyre rules, reform F1 and bring back the type of racing we had years ago.

what? boring Ferrari domination? we havent had this good a year since Schumi was battling Hakkinen or the year JPM nearly brought the championship race to the last 2<? races of the season.

the fact the drivers have to look after their tyres and make sure they still have some life in them for 70laps means fans get to see a load more overtaking and battles during the GP. TV audiences are way up this year.

Consider the options!

* Run the race with a chicane -
What are you going to do...lob one up with cones??
Delay the race...bring in a cement mixer and lob up a DIY job??

Say they did.....Safety is a major issue....safety walls would have to be erected, would the chicane last the full race distance etc etc .....wasnt safety the issue in the first place

Why would this be a problem? It would'nt be made out of cement!!!!!, LOL it would be (probably) be a row of road tyres fastened together in 8 high stacks with heat sealed plastic covering. Just like what they did after Sennas death, In Barcelona(it could have been Estoril) the drivers got toegther and demanded the a chincane be put up on a straight because there wasnt enough run off area on a fast part of the track. This was done (two rows of tryres as above creating a little braking zone plus quick left right flick and this survived the whole race intact.

They could have even said no ovetaking into the chicane so everyone could go thru at full speed which could mean it wouldnt get hit during the race.

Not rocket science, easy to do.

bonkey

Corben Dallas wrote:

what? boring Ferrari domination? we havent had this good a year since Schumi was battling Hakkinen or the year JPM nearly brought the championship race to the last 2<? races of the season.

I think the OP was suggesting a return to the days before all of that. At a guess - back when grooved tires were only for the wet.

the fact the drivers have to look after their tyres and make sure they still have some life in them for 70laps means fans get to see a load more overtaking and battles during the GP. TV audiences are way up this year.

Im' just waiting for them to figure out that whats really eneded is:

- Allow - but not require - tires to be changed once per race
- No re-fuelling whatsoever
- Smaller engines
and in an ideal world....
- a return to slicks,

Why would this be a problem?

Because there would be no time to test it properly.

They could have even said no ovetaking into the chicane so everyone could go thru at full speed which could mean it wouldnt get hit during the race.

Why not just mandate that Michelin-clad cars could not exceed pit-land speeds entering the corner? No need to force Bridgestone-clad cars to slow down because Michelin monumentally screwed up with its tires.

And thats ultimately what it boils down to. Michelin screwed up, but wanted a solution that negated this screw-up. In effect, they handed Bridgestone a colossal advantage, and insisted that the FIA had to implement a solution by changing/ignoring regulations in order to negate this advantage.

Not rocket science, easy to do.

Not necessarily. Just because a chicane held in the past doesn't mean that any chicane built in a similar method is safe, will last, or indeed is even a smart idea.

At the end of the day, think about what you're really saying.......we used this approach back in the days when our lack of ultra-safety focus got two drivers killed in one weekend, and no-one died from it, so it must be safe now.

There's no shortage of things done back in those days which never actually led to someone dying but which have since been abandoned as unsafe. Thats the whole idea of good safety - to remove the risks before they kill someone, not to allow them to be taken again and again because no-one has been killed from them yet.

jc

steviec

The more I think about this the more I think that the 9 teams were trying to use the situation to put political pressure on the FIA. Is it a coincidence that it was the same teams that have protested against pretty much everything the FIA do that wanted to hold the race for ransom and force them to put in a chicane? If it had been a bridgestone problem Ferrari would have dealt with it whatever way they had to without trying to shift the blame, although I'm sure Paul Stoddart would be screaming even louder.

But there were lots of options, there's an interesting interview with Max Moseley on www.dailyf1.com where he runs through them, and it seems like the Michelin teams simply refused to accept anything other than putting bridgestone at a similar disadvantage to themselves. And the way the teams came out for the parade lap and then all pitted in seemed more like a protest than anything else. If they weren't going to race they didn't need to do that. And I'm amazed nobody thought it was worth driving for 7th and 8th places, they could have finished laps behind ferrari but still got points. It seems like they were intent on making F1 look bad to further their future plans.

Curran

Corben Dallas wrote:

it would be (probably) be a row of road tyres fastened together in 8 high stacks with heat sealed plastic covering. Just like what they did after Sennas death

I didnt mean a concrete wall chicane.......i meant concrete kerbing.....similar to the way they filled in the last chicane in Monteral the morning of the race! Two sloped kerbs 6" of the ground with red and white paint on them!

Tyre chicane......and if a few cars clip the tyres and deform the chicane it would probably turn out to be a straight thru gap and back to square 1

It just wasnt possible to build the chicane for safety reasons.....no time to practice on it, the corner wouldnt have been certified safe so if something were to happen there would be court cases for months to come! (and if it were to happed to a Bridgestone runner there would be total uproar!)

528i

OBITUARY: FORMULA 1 (1950 - 2005)

Sniff Petrol is saddened to report the tragic death of Formula 1 motor racing. Following a long decline, F1 finally passed away in America on Sunday 19 July. The sport was surrounded by fans and family. Although Formula 1 had been suffering from several maladies and needless complications for some time, the actual cause of death is yet to be confirmed. Many suggest it may have been hastened by being repeatedly abused and shat upon by a Prancing Horse, but it is believed that the once-loved sport's actual demise was brought on by a number of other factors including dangerously swollen egos, over exertion caused by money grabbing, and a bad reaction to certain kinds of rubber. Some close to F1 are already pointing the finger at those who were meant to care for the ailing sport, and in particular Dr Max Mosley. Critics allege that Mosley himself was in no fit state of health for the position, suffering as he was from several osteopathic ailments including a weak spine and severe inflexibility. "F1 needed a taste of its own medicine to wake it from a fat, lazy sleep," noted Maurice Ital of Every Other Sunday magazine. "Since Michelin were involved perhaps this could have been administered in true French style, as a suppository. Or, to put it another way, Max Mosley can shove the whole thing up his arse".

Megatron

Corben Dallas wrote:

race.
But no Bridgstone wanted the unworkable and dangerous arrangement were Michelin runners would back off into the final banked trun and Bridgstone cars would take it flat. can u imagine the potential accident that could cause.

Ehh no , read the FIA letter , because you haven't as of yet.

Why penelise the teams who have the right equipment ?

Say a particlar engine company who supplied 7 of the 10 teams didn't bring any to a race ( lets say it was lost due to a acciendt, or stuck in transit), would you want that all teams have there mechaines push the cars around the track ?

The bridgstone teams didn't cry for thier compition, they knew what needed to be done and they did it.

I've watched and love watching F1 since i was a wee nipper, yes i haven't seen anything like this ( closes has to be Spa .. 21 million in 1 corner :eek: )
yes it sooks , but the people to blame are Michelin, yes the teams did the right thing, no wanting to put thier drivers at risk.

But what got me ( soz i've forgot to post beofre here) is that Michelin have been using these type of tyers all year, and Brdigestone have been struggeling alot, now that Michelin have had a big slap across the face it will be interesting if this situation ever comes up again.

Megatron

MrPudding wrote:

Also, I beleive they reserve the right to cancel the race if there are less than 12 cars.

MrP

wrong.

The race can be called off/canceled if less than 6 cars are running.

So if 1 of the cars from the 3 teams dropped out , thats it the Race was over.
if it happened before half distance no one would of got any points.

Jonny Arson

Mr. Pudding is completely correct there. Any race with less than 12 cars entered in the event will to the cancelation of the race.