Knocking down an internal wall

Morgans

Help required.

I am hoping that the knowledgeable crowd on here can help/advise me. Moved into a smallish house almost a year ago, with the intention of knocking through the internal wall between the downstairs toilet and the kitchen. The rooms are about the same size and as I am living alone, the need for two jacks just isnt there. The kitchen is shall-we-say compact, and doubling its size makes a lot of sense.

Had some friends that are handy enough at the DIY. Came over at the weekend, and we took out the toilet and sink. So far so good. Next the job was to take down the plasterboard that separated the rooms. However, god damn builders only gone and put a concrete wall in between. Cowboys!! We had thought that it was a partition wall with two sheets of plasterboard. That scuppered our plans, and so we left it at that.

The advise I am looking for is, is knocking down the wall a DIY job for some people not entirely familiar with the process or , the more sensible option, I'm sure, should we call in the professionals to finish off the job.

On a budget but able to splash out to some extent, if anyone here could forward on details of a recommended building/renovator around the Skerries Balbriggan/North Dublin type area, it would be greatly appreciated.

Is it just a question of ringing around to get quotations from a number of contractors. It doesnt strike me as a huge job but I have no frame of reference as to what the cost would be around. Its a small wall (its a small house) about 10ft by 12ft approx. Does anyone have a ball park figure from a similar experience.

Many thanks in advance

kadman

Dont go near the wall, until a professional has determined if its a load bearing wall , or not.

You could end up with an O'Reillys men scenario from from Fawlty Towers, and thats the last thing you want.

kadman

Morgans

Sincere Thanks for that Kadman. Had been talking to the builder, before we moved in, about knocking it down and he did confirm that it wasnt a load bearing wall. I'm concerned about avoiding inviting one of O'Reilly's men or any of this affiliates to do the job...any advise on that front.

Thanks again

RainyDay

Morgans wrote:

Had been talking to the builder, before we moved in, about knocking it down and he did confirm that it wasnt a load bearing wall.

A builder really isn't qualified to make this call. You need a structural engineer or architect. You would be crazy to take out a wall on the word of a builder (which is EXACTLY what Fawlty did in the O'Reilly men episode).

Morgans

Thanks again, but can we assume its not a load bearing wall. I presume that the builder of the house - the foreman over the construction of entire estate would know - even told us how to prove it was a load bearing wall if I didtn trust him. Also the fact that I asked a family who did the same conversion in the same house type on the estate. They moved and I never did get the name of the contractor that they used. (I hadnt moved into the estate before they left, just got speaking to them on a visit out there.)

Many thanks again for the concern on my behalf, but can we assume its a load bearing wall. What I would like to know from the posters on here, is if they know of or could recommend a builder/renovator who is not one of 'O'Reilly's men', or someone who is not going to rip me off blind. Does anyone have a ball park figure on how much a renovation like this might cost.

MAny thanks

MorningStar

If you are sure the wall is not load bearing you could take down the wall yourself easily enough. As you have said it is concrete but not how it was constructed. I am assuming it is just block and not reinforced. Take the wall down at the top first preferably away from the door frame (do the around the door last). You should have all protective clothes on dust mask, googles and steel cap boots (essentials). There will be a lot of dust so try and seall the rest of the house off. You will probably damage the ceiling finish and need a plaster after the job.
A lump hammer, sledge hammer and chisel should be enough for the job but a small kango might be helpful. As a novice I would say stick with the hammers. Once you start you can see how the wall should come down. If more than one person is working on the wall make sure you are on the same side of the wall. Windows can easily be broken by flying bit of wall so be careful.

Morgans

Thanks a million MorningStar for the advise

I think that it is just block but would need to get that checked out. We had assumed that we would need to do some plastering after the wall was taken down. I did a bit of knocking down walls when working on a site before, but not in my own or in a finshed house. Thanks again for the advise.

So the job shouldnt really go into thousands of pounds for a professional to do it??

MorningStar

Morgans wrote:

So the job shouldnt really go into thousands of pounds for a professional to do it??

That's a "how long is a piece of string" type question. Builders are so busy that they either won't do the job or they will give you a price that they will do it for. They may say €3k but it isn't even a days work. Do it yourself if you can and have the time otherwise the whole house will cost a fortune. It will cost you about €300-600 just to get a rid of the rubble.

I am not a builder and I took out a few walls on my own. It's tough enough work but not hard to figure out.

Morgans

Thanks again for the advice.

I might ring around and ask for some quotations. What feedback I get will probably determine what I will do. I dont really have too many issues with knocking down the wall, but I will need to get absolute confirmation that it is not a load bearing wall. Ive the plans at home, and they indicate that its not, but I will check the joysts also. THanks for your help on this.

If anyone knows any builder that would be willing to do the job or had any experiences, i would greatly appreciate if you could pass on their details. As I said earlier, im living in the Skerries, Balbriggan region of North Dublin.

Thanks again.

KdjaCL

Texted a mate who is a builder said going rate for that job would be 650 full price , as a nixer 300.

3 hours work with maybe half hour plastering roof, floor would be your problem once smoothed to some extent.



kdjac

Morgans

Thanks for the info Kdjac.

I dont suppose your mate is a dubliner....

rooferPete

Hi KdjaC,

I Want Your Builder Friend, full rates each and every job, any contractor who can remove a wall for less than the the cost of the waste disposal is what I and every other contractor in this country has been looking for.

Maybe he would actally do the full job for a few euro more ? I mean going on the base rate and time allowed it shouldn't take too much longer to provide an expert finish ?

I Am Not Joking, if he has a C2 ask him to contact me.

.

kadman

KdjaC wrote:

Texted a mate who is a builder said going rate for that job would be 650 full price , as a nixer 300.

3 hours work with maybe half hour plastering roof, floor would be your problem once smoothed to some extent.



kdjac

ROFLMAO,

Sorry kdjac. I cant help it.

What happens when your mate pulls my wall down, maybe along with some of my ceilings, wiring, and central heating pipes. He still only puts his hand out for only 650, and I,m insured for all that. Excellent, I'm impressed. :cool:

His name is not o'reilly by any chance is it.

3 hours work, must be mighty fast. I would have thought you would need a couple of hours to clean up after that.

Of course there are pros, and there are pros. If your man is doing that type of work, I'd think he was up to his eyes in jobs, at that type of money. And probably too busy for this one.

kadman

Fredser

As a famous builder once said:

"Easy, easy, lick a paint one hour - giz a biscuit"

Victor

Morgans wrote:

I am hoping that the knowledgeable crowd on here can help/advise me. Moved into a smallish house almost a year ago, with the intention of knocking through the internal wall between the downstairs toilet and the kitchen. The rooms are about the same size and as I am living alone, the need for two jacks just isnt there.

Congratulations, your house no longer complies with building regulations and may be difficult to sell.

As regards using sledge hammers, etc. it seems ... "violent" is the word I'll use. Use a concrete saw or chisel around the edges to define the hole, then hammer / kango.

kadman

Now, now, Victor,

Compliance with building regs, would be considered as an extra, and priced accordingly.

kadman

rooferPete

Kadman ?????????

I am shocked at you suggestion that there may be an extra, the price clearly states €650.00 full price, the nixer which would be without accountability at €300.00.

The devil is in the detail

.

Morgans

Thanks Victor you make a valid point. If needs be the toilet can be reinstalled. Not particularly interested in moving house just yet. As I said, the house on the estate that completed the conversion was sold very quickly. Obviously, it could come back to bite me in the ass, but for the time being, I am willing to cross that bridge when I come to it.

MorningStar

Victor wrote:

Congratulations, your house no longer complies with building regulations and may be difficult to sell.

As regards using sledge hammers, etc. it seems ... "violent" is the word I'll use. Use a concrete saw or chisel around the edges to define the hole, then hammer / kango.

Are you suggesting because it doesn't have a downstairs toilet it doesn't comply with building regs? AFAIK there are standards for new construction that insist on a downstairs toilet but removal doesn't mean it no longer complies with building regs.

The use of a sledge hammer isn't that violent and any pro will do the same.

kadman

rooferPete wrote:

Kadman ?????????

I am shocked at you suggestion that there may be an extra, the price clearly states €650.00 full price, the nixer which would be without accountability at €300.00.

The devil is in the detail

.

Sorry Rooferpete,

But I am willing to put my job with Rookad, on the line here, Boss.

At 300 yo-yo's, nixer price, I reckon the following things would be considered extras, :eek:

1 Turning up on time.
2 Laying down dust sheets.
3 Removing or protecting, lightshades, chandeliers ect.
4 Covering all furniture, that can not be easily moved.
5 The ability to identify the correct wall to remove.
6 Having the necessary skills, to follow simple instructions.
7 Reading the plans, instead of page 3 of the sun.
8 Short tea breaks.
9 Good command of the english language.
10 And finally in the words of Brad Pitt of the film Snatch, " Stay till the feccing jobs done.

These need to be itemised as extras and priced accordingly.
Please feel free to add to my scope of works.

kadman

Morgans

Who reads page 3 of the Sun?

rooferPete

Hi Morgans,

I apologise for my RooKad partners reference to Page 3, he has been known on occasion to go back to his formative years when making a point

He is making what could be viewed as a lot of valid points, all items that should be taken into consideration along with removing the rubble from the room and preferably from the work site.

Making good the floor, walls and ceiling should be a standard part of the brief when handing the job over to a professional, the fact that you are happy with the idea of reinstating the W.C. when moving is ok just as long as you understand it will most likely be required when selling.

Essentially all the details mentioned so far are items needed and should be considered before the wall is removed, at the end of the day you should get what you pay for, nothing more and certainly nothing less.

.

gregos

MorningStar wrote:

Are you suggesting because it doesn't have a downstairs toilet it doesn't comply with building regs? AFAIK there are standards for new construction that insist on a downstairs toilet but removal doesn't mean it no longer complies with building regs.

Yes it does.

kadman

rooferPete wrote:

Hi Morgans,

I apologise for my RooKad partners reference to Page 3, he has been known on occasion to go back to his formative years when making a point

.

.

Look again, Rooferpete. You've put it in writing for all to see.
"my Rookads partners' ".

Thats a legal reference now. Whoooppeeeee.

No more second best, no more 49-51%. Partners, my solicitors will be in touch to finalise the details.

I dont have to take orders from you now Rooferpete, now I can give them. :cool:

On a serious note. Rookad would be willing to give a quote on removing the offending wall. So please supply door width details, so that we can ascertain the correct size Himac, to ..er..nudge the so called immovable object. Suffice to say Rookad require payment up front, and a map of the nearest escape route.

Oh ****, i am now equally liable for any damge I cause, owing to my new partnership, best buy a wash'n'go phone then.

kadman

tapest

LOL you guys again....Kadmans himac through the front door....that's priceless , still wiping away the tears.
Seriously though. My sister had something similar done recently ..A section of load bearing wall removed...just enough for double doors. I made her get an engineer to look at it.€50 call out, plans about €750 i think, but worth it to be sure and not always looking for "settling" cracks later.
Had great trouble getting a builder to do the job, basically "steel goalposts" with rsj on top, couple of acros to offer support while fitting rsj. Job not done very well ,eg packed under steel leg eith broken grinder discs rather metal shims.I'm doing remedial work , plaster / carpentry
AND THE COST......€ 8 plus
t

gregos

tapest wrote:

AND THE COST......€ 8 plus

8 euros doesn't seem too bad

tapest

gregos wrote:

8 euros doesn't seem too bad

oops ! night shift makes one a little careless.
€ K8.... Now are we happy lol
t