SNAG lists with second hand homes????

dwayneburke

Hi

Im selling my home at the moment and trading up,,,,however i have a sale agreed on my apartment. The purchaser has been over a few times to look at the place since putting in the offer and me accepting it.

The purchaser keeps coming up with new "problems" i.e. tap is alittle bit loose in kitchen (but still works), small hole in wall (to thread a phoneline from one room to another) etc etc....

I want to know can she try and lower the price of the house by saying she will need to repair all this stuff or is it a case of what she saw when she made the offer she has to stick with??? i.e. caveat emptor...even though property is in fine condition.

Whats my legal position even though no contracts have been signed ( so i know the purchaser can just walk away )??

I have a feeling that the investor could kind of "blackmail me" into knocking a bit off the house price due to their being a few holse and pictire frame hools on the walls etc


Cheers

MorningStar

Just clarify that the price is agreed and the place is as is. Do it through your lawyer. Unless you are desperate to sell there is no need for this hassle.
She could be trying to lower the price you just need to decide if you are.
Investors do try this all the time. He could easily walk away. Talk to your lawyer, the deposit can kept but it is really unlikely. Untill something is signed anybody can walk away.

the_syco

I agree with MorningStar. She's bought the house for what it is. What next? "There's no shed"? So are ye gonna build tha shed? No, of course you're not, as that not what she bought. Go through your lawyer. Once you didn't hide it from here when selling it, she can't complain.

dwayneburke

Tks guys...im sure it will be fine....im gonna be taking a hard stance on anything that does crop up though!!

Just an afterthought when is a legally binding contract taken i.e. my sols have sent her the contracts/deeds etc and she is to sign them at which she sends them back to my sols and i sign them, is this a legally binding contract or is it actually when the money has changed hands ?

Tks

Seanie M

As an intending purchaser of a house, I am currently awaiting the surveyours report and what it says about the snags I have found in the house my fiancée and I are trying to buy. Yes, it is sale agreed, but no contracts have been signed, and they will not be signed until a satisfactory surveyour report is compiled, and we know the condition of the house. So, if any serious faults are found (which I myself have found, I just need them verified in the report), then it will be a bargaining chip in the sale to get the cost of repairs of the price of the house.

Seanie.

MorningStar

Seanie M wrote:

As an intending purchaser of a house, I am currently awaiting the surveyours report and what it says about the snags I have found in the house my fiancée and I are trying to buy. Yes, it is sale agreed, but no contracts have been signed, and they will not be signed until a satisfactory surveyour report is compiled, and we know the condition of the house. So, if any serious faults are found (which I myself have found, I just need them verified in the report), then it will be a bargaining chip in the sale to get the cost of repairs of the price of the house.

Seanie.

You do realise a snag list is for new properties only!
Second hand homes are a differenet kettle of fish completely. The surveyors report is to find any major faults. If you saw them or suspected them before hand you sale agreed knowing that. I wouldn't hold my breath on it working as bargining chip. While trying to buy a house I found the toilet was actually on the neighbours property and the roof needed to be replaced on the house. The seller didn't budge.
We are in a sellers market messing around the sellers is not a good idea. Being straight forward is a better idea if you wan the property. If there is a big thing say so and maybe there is a justified reduction .

DWAYNE
It sounds like the deposit has been paid. Unless there is a major fault the deposit is yours if they pull out AFAIK but I could be wrong. Your sol is the best person to ask what the real stage is at.

dwayneburke

Tks MorningStar...

I think im just be a bit anxious about the whole thing....to date everything has being going VERY SMOOTHLY and im expecting some hitch to crop up...

The property itself is in a prime location etc so thats no problem and yesthe deposit was paid the morning after the sale was agreed so she sounds legit etc....

Im just trying to find something that could go wrong but im fairly confident the surveyor survey should be fine after all i did spend just over 5 years in the house (which i bought new) and i have found no structural problems only little things like the kitchen tap is a bit loose which is no biggy.....

Cheers

Seanie M

MorningStar wrote:

You do realise a snag list is for new properties only!

I don't think so. The house we intend to buy is 4 years old, and the surveyour concurred with the kind of list we want. It was only after it went Sale Agreed and further viewings that we spotted the faults, 2 of which give me great concern.

If in doubt, check out my post here about my little adventure in first time buying. You'll see what I mean by a bargaining chip.

Seanie.

0utshined

Snag lists are only for new houses. By all means have a surveyors report done to decide if you want to go through with the sale but I can't see a seller fixing up the house at their expense and if they do more fool them. Your offer price should take into account any work you think you'll need to do to fix the problem.

MorningStar

I was just going to say similar.

I heard on the radio yesterday that you can pull out at any stage prior to signature without any loss of deposit. So I was wrong on that.

Any faults can be used as a bargining chip but it's just not a great idea to nit pick in a sellers market. As a seller has more options that's all.

I have heard vague rumblings that investors pull out very easily though and that they can try to be sneakier more often. It could be good business practice because they just aren't as emotionally involved. The best price isn't always the best offer.

Seanie M

Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT going to nit-pick over a few things that I can easily fix prior to properly moving into the house, but if you do read only the first few of my posts in the thread linked (to the Glenrue Ltd. post, within the last 2/3 weeks), you will see how severe 3 faults I have found really are. It will cost money to get them fixed, and in my opinion, when the auctioneer didn't even know about them when I asked him about them, then they were obviously not taken into consideration regarding the value/sale price of the house. Therefore, the surveyour's report will be a bargaining chip to get the cost of such repairs off the price of the house. Or, the current owner can get them fixed up themselves, and leave me with less to worry about! Otherwise, I couldn't care about the house with its cracked plasterboard ceiling, slightly warped architraves or baseboards, one door hung badly, and slightly peeling paint... I can fix all them myself!

S.

Seanie M

By the way, can any of you clarify for me what a "snag list" is versus any other engineer report?

copacetic

just bought a new apt, a snag list is the list of things that haven't been done right by the builders, all the way from a socket that isn't wired properly to a wall with a big crack in the plaster. Since they have all just been done and should have been done a certain way then, before you take the house from a builder you are entitled to have all these things fixed.

An engineers report on a second hand home (imo) is more to discover serious faults like subsidence, new roof required, damp, wood rot, etc that might make you want to pull out of buying the house altogether, or as you say as bargaining chips if you want to ask the for the cost of fixing them off the price.

MorningStar

As said
Snag is generally for superficial things but the big thing is it is an inspection of work done and an agreement that it will be done.

Surveys are to find large faults not seen and indicators on what should be done to improve the house to current standards.

They aren't really bargining chips at all. It's just a case of knowing what you are buying. In a sellers market the report would have to throw up really big faults like a whole roof needs replacing before it can be a bargining chip IMHO.

The thing is if you are buying a second hand property and it's a few years old you can assume it will need some work.

Victor

dwayneburke wrote:

The purchaser keeps coming up with new "problems" i.e. tap is alittle bit loose in kitchen (but still works), small hole in wall (to thread a phoneline from one room to another) etc etc....

Is there stale paint and the occassional water mark? Wine stains? Door handles not shiny enough? She's nit picking, appreciate her concerns, but don't give in.

The contract is binding on a party once their signature is on it (Statute of Frauds 1695).

The deposit is there for holding against the purchaser if they pull out, however you only get you costs (i.e. estate agent, solicitor, loss of profit because you have to settle for a lower price from another bidder) from this. Do check this with your solicitor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_frauds

Seanie M

Victor wrote:

(Statute of Frauds 1695).

Do you mean 1965 Vick??

copacetic

just on a note on the initial deposit, it is refundable if the sale doesn't go through for any reason, if you use an estate agent the receipt they gave to the buyer will have said this.

the contract deposit they would have given when signing the contracts is yours to keep if they pull out..

Kappar

Seanie M wrote:

Do you mean 1965 Vick??

no i think he means 1695

Victor

Seanie M wrote:

Do you mean 1965 Vick??

It's an oldie and goodie.

rooferPete

Hi,

If you ever get to view your property file, which most people don't the correspondance between the Solicitors states very clearly on each letter that passes between them ;

"Subject To Contract, Contract Denied"

Basically it means the deposit is a holding amount of money that confirms your intention to buy, most deposits are Subject To Contract and Loan Approval, these being the two most common conditions.

Your Solicitor is looking after all the other conditions as per the Law Society format for conveyancing, ensuring good title etc.

The binding contracts are usually signed after the house has been surveyed and loan approval granted, AFAIK either party can walk away until the binding contract is signed, witnessed and all conditions of the contract are met by both parties.

For example a contract can be signed subject to loan approval, if the Surveyor does not pass the house there will be no loan therefore no contract, the same applies to the vendor offering up Good Title, any problems with the Title and no contract.

These AFAIK are safeguards built in to protect both the purchaser and the vendor and what the Solicitors are getting paid for, to ensure each parties interests are protected.

.

positron

I was in a similar situation recently, but on the other end of the deal - after viewing this 7 year old house, I made an offer, paid the deposit etc, but the surveyor came back with a number of issues - Apart from the easy-to-fix issues like missing fireproofing under the stairs etc, there were more sinister ones to follow - there was a wall slightly out of shape, which turned out to be because the owner had setup a huge multi gym in the attic and didn’t bother strengthening the attic floor to support it well.

I spend time and money to estimate how much it would cost to fix these issues and went back to the auctioneer with the figure (around 5000 euros), but the seller wouldn’t take any of it - even if it were 15,000 above the initial asking price (due to bidding wars).

Next week I noticed another house nearby in the market, which claims to be smaller than the first house, but somehow seems a lot bigger than the first house - later I found that the first house was actually a lot smaller than what the cowboy seller and auctioneer was claiming it to be – in fact the seller had included the attic space in to the total square footage of the house!! I am glad I got out of it!

dwayneburke

positron did you lose your deposit? and do you mind how do auctioneers come to the amount of the deposit i.e. is it a percentage of selling price or a fixed deposit fee??

positron

No, I didn't lose the deposit. I hadn’t signed any contracts anyway! It was a fixed amount deposit (5000 euros) and the agents retuned it when I told them how I can’t go ahead with the deal at that price.