I demand my Sherry

DublinWriter

I heard on the radio today that there's an arcane by-law in TCD that allows those sitting an exam to claim a glass of sherry mid-way through an exam.

Apparantly, someone invoked this right during his exams last month and was duely fetched a sherry. He failed his paper BTW.

punka

that's an old trinity legend, been going around for years, but it's not true. all those stories are made-up, in fact many of them allegedly originated with a certain well-known joycean scholar.. also not true that scholars can graze their sheep etc.

(got bored one day and went with a friend to investigate the statues).

The way I heard that story was, this guy showed up, asked for and got his sherry, then the next exam he went to, the invigilator demanded to know where his white suit and sword were, as he wasn't allowed take the exam without the proper attire. Nice story but never actually happened

DrIndy

no, its a glass of porter - ie a half pint of guinness. it is an entitlement as a scholar during exams.

Since he demanded this, they then asked him to wear his sword and gown and then the junior dean stopped and fined him for carrying a dangerous weapon....

partly true....

xeduCat

The story is told (and the various versions thereof detailed) in The Junior Dean, RB McDowell : encounters with a legend, published in 2003 and available in the library (from stacks, PL 390725). It's a really good book and has a litany of stories from his reign as JD.

McDowell is in his 90s now and still lives on campus.

ISAW

DublinWriter wrote:

I heard on the radio today that there's an arcane by-law in TCD that allows those sitting an exam to claim a glass of sherry mid-way through an exam.

Apparantly, someone invoked this right during his exams last month and was duely fetched a sherry. He failed his paper BTW.

My first question when someone says something like this is "how do you know". If it was a "friend of a friend" or you "heard it somewhere" I don't give a lot of credence to that. But legends do have origins. many of the Trinity ones do have some basis in fact e.g. scholars being allowed to play marbles on the dining Hall/chapel steps spawned the much later 20th century tradition of marbles on the Chapel steps.

The Statutes they refer to are however much older and are in Latin and have been updated. Much more updating is necessary to reflect modern times. For example the tradition of "doffing caps" is still preserved in the statutes but I have yet to see a scholar wearing a cap aroung College. Even gowns are fairly rare on most days.

Kappar

This is very interesting stuff. Does anyone know anything about something that I heard that goes something like trinity being its own jurisdiction in some sense. Not sure hwre i heard that and how far it's meant to extend but would be interested in exploring it further.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

the library has all the old calendars - read through a very old one quite a while ago and there was nothing about sherry, port etc. v. disappointing.

NotInventedHere

From Snopes.com

Legend: Student sitting for exam requests cakes and ale under a centuries-old university regulation.

Example: [Collected on the Internet, 1993]


Here is a true story someone found regarding exams at Cambridge University. It seems that during an examination one day a bright young student popped up and asked the proctor to bring him Cakes and Ale. The following dialog ensued:

Proctor: I beg your pardon?

Student: Sir, I request that you bring me Cakes and Ale.

Proctor: Sorry, no.

Student: Sir, I really must insist. I request and require that you bring me Cakes and Ale.

At this point, the student produced a copy of the four hundred year old Laws of Cambridge, written in Latin and still nominally in effect, and pointed to the section which read (rough translation from the Latin):

"Gentlemen sitting examinations may request and require Cakes and Ale."

Pepsi and hamburgers were judged the modern equivalent, and the student sat there, writing his examination and happily slurping away.

Three weeks later the student was fined five pounds for not wearing a sword to the examination.


Variations:
The
setting of the legend is always either Cambridge or Oxford.

The item the student is allowed to request varies (e.g., glass of port, cakes and ale, a pint, glass of wine).

The violation for which the student is subsequently fined also varies (e.g., not wearing ceremonial sword to class, not wearing shoes with silver buckles while on university premises).

The amount of the fine also differs (when specified); it is always some amount of money that would have been considered a stiff fine several hundred years ago (such as two-thirds of a pound) but is a mere pittance in modern-day terms.

The student is sometimes fined by the proctor immediately upon fulfilling the student's request, and sometimes fined by the university several weeks later. (The former version implies that the student has been outsmarted by a proctor who is thoroughly familiar with the university's laws, old as they may be.)

One variant form of this legend describes a student who calls for a pint during class but is rebuffed by the lecturer for not wearing a tabard and sword. The student later arrives for the final examination so dressed and receives his pint.
Origins: The "cakes and ale" legend has been circulating since at least the mid-1950s (when it was printed in Reader's Digest, and attributed to The Lancet, as quoted by United Press International) and is probably much older than that. Several ways of viewing this legend spring to mind:
A "loony laws" type of legend, featuring some bizarre law or regulation made many years ago for reasons long since forgotten that has never been repealed.

A "mere student outsmarts faculty" class of legend, wherein a student demonstrates his knowledge of university procedures to be superior to that of his learned professors. Of course, the versions in which the student is fined after making his request for not having displaying all the proper period accoutrements turn the tale into the opposite: an "upstart student gets his comeuppance at the hands of his elders" legend.

A "just deserts" tale, in which some facet of an exploited loophole turns the tables on the exploiter. (See our Cigarson page for a similar example.)

Gillo

A friend of my parents studied medicne there, and scored high enough (actually very high) to be allowed certain previlege's.

1; a glass of sherry during an exam
2; a stable for his horse

there were a few other's also, but I got the idea it is not an entitlement of every student, instead you have to gain them.

Kevin_rc_ie

isn't there something about the gardaí not being able to come in uninvited or something like that.

ISAW

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

isn't there something about the gardaí not being able to come in uninvited or something like that.

It is private property.

The senior common room rules do allow for members of the Gardai to have access at any time. This was only added last year. It came in with the smoking ban. How right wing for an "academic" group I thought. but there you go. By the way I support the smoking ban. It is the Gardai coming and going whenever they please I have a problem with. Not that I dont welcome them. I know those who would never enter the College because it was "foreign" and I know of others I have tried to get to study there. i just dont think it is necessary to sign away my freedoms to others we apparently trust to protect them. It is a bit to Patriot Act to me.

Time Magazine

Yes, it's private property but it is still in the State, and open to the public - so it's like a pub or a shop (or so I'm told by my law-student buddies).

ISAW

Angry Banana wrote:

Yes, it's private property but it is still in the State, and open to the public - so it's like a pub or a shop (or so I'm told by my law-student buddies).

It is not necessarily "open to the public". At any time College could refuse people coming in. there are no rights of way through College. there are financial (e.g. Manuscripts found near Kells) and social (e.g. sports) reasons for it being as it is but technically it could be closed off. Indeed sometimes for financial/social reasons it is closed off (e.g. Trinity Ball). One could claim if one was injured on the premises. Sadly in our current "risk management" culture College authorities are wont to pay more attention to "security threats" and "risk" than to social capital and the so called "Trinity experience". That's how the Pomodoro got the way it is as far as I can tell!

Time Magazine

Just like a pub can close its doors?

cuckoo

The college has been shut down a few times when there's been uber contraversal speakers due in the GMB, to deter protests outside. I can remember having to show college id to get in the Nassau St gate when there was some right wing politico type coming in to speak, there was a huge violent crowd outside (translation, 3 socialist workers types with a placard that were quite annoyed that they couldn't get into the college) and lots of worried looking college security.

What's the deal with the story that the provost can shoot catholics from a specific window that overlooks Front Square?

Pet

That's how the Pomodoro got the way it is as far as I can tell!

??

What's the deal with the story that the provost can shoot catholics from a specific window that overlooks Front Square?

Iirc, someone (I dunno if it was a provost, I thought it was a scholar/fellow??) shot someone with a crossbow and his father (who was a former-day hack) had the rule written retroactively to prevent his son being expelled. That's a very vague and sketchy explanation though, full of holes, so you should wait for someone more knowledgeable to come along with all the answers...

Agent Smith

was someone Looking for me?

Time Magazine

cuckoo wrote:

What's the deal with the story that the provost can shoot catholics from a specific window that overlooks Front Square?

I was told that it's from a specific window in his house and the Catholic has to be on Grafton St. I'd say it's bs to be honest though.

Help me set up the Trinity College Knowledge Society!

DublinWriter

Kappar wrote:

This is very interesting stuff. Does anyone know anything about something that I heard that goes something like trinity being its own jurisdiction in some sense.

TCD doesn't need Dublin Corporation planning permission to erect buildings in it's grounds, although I think their facility next door to Pearse St. is outside of the original Elizabethan charter.

masteroftherealm

on the ledgend variations one i heard was that the procter wouldnt let the guy onto campus witout wearing his sword and scabbard. Madness!!

foxybrowne

Speaking of college traditions, the tradition of pulling a sly one on students is still alive and well. Elections for the Dean of Arts (Letters) are on at the moment, when most students are on holidays (Class reps vote on belhalf of their classes). Fair play T.C.D. for keeping that one going.

punka

do you know who the candidates are? seems a bit odd electing a new dean right before restructuring kicks in......