Gardai uncover Racists gun cache

chem

its nice to see we are all being lead along by the press! We all think we can see trough the crap printed about miss use of firearms on this site, but look at us now.

Im not saying that there is noting to it, just that one leaflet was found that had somthing to do with a neo-nazi group. So does that mean that i am a nazi because i have a WW2 officer SS tunic? No i just have an interest in mill uniforms. Some replicas were also recovered. So what? they were not running down the streets waveing them at people. they had them in bags and replicas are not against the law (YET)

These YOUNG lads were just stupid and most likely just doing this type of thing because they tought it was cool :rolleyes: silly as it may have been.

whatever they were up to in the North west, must not have been upsetting anyone, as there was no reports of anyone seeing camo clad men doing tactics or that. As to the de-act if that is what it was, well then that was breaking the law they should get punished for that.

I like my freedom to do what i want in this country. As long as i do not harm anyone by my activitys i feel i should be permitted to do what i want as long as it is within the laws of the land. This country is starting to fall into a semi police state, as England has and continues to. The job of the law enforcement powers that be, should not be an easy one in a free and democratic country. Im not saying the gardi have it easy :eek: but new laws are alway being brought in for one thing or another that permit the gardi to invade abit more each time into peoples lives.

I know the old saying "sure if you have notting to hide...." but no i dont agree with that look on it. lets say the gardi got it into there heads that because i had a ss tunic + licenced firearms, i must be cooking up something sinister in my head. with the powers they have now, i could be draged into a station and questioned for hours on end. I could be seen as a racist gun owner or any number of spins that some promotion hungry officer puts on it.

Before you all say it could never happen. look at what happened in donegal for years
and im sure its only the tip of alot of things that could come out yet, all over the country.

All im saying is that all of you should just have a look around your own home and just think. If for any reason someone was to have a look around, that had no idea of shooting interests at all, what would be going trough there minds?

What about the copy of guns and ammo on your coffee table, the combats in your press, your net history on the computer. Its only afew things. But i hope you see what im getting at.

Someone asked, why is there no follow up to this story? my view is because there is no story there. If there was a real story there im sure it would be front page for weeks and righty so. At least then the press would be doing a service for once by exposeing neo nazi scum.

Degsy

Its true,if you want to dress up in cammo and carry toy guns up the mountains well you should be allowed to do so.This is supposed to be a democracy,if you want to have the complete teachings of adolf hitler,chairman mao and pol pot on your coffee table you should also be allowed to do so.I myself collect militaria of various types(mostly second world war and mostly german),i have numerous books on ww2 and i'm sure if i looked hard enough i could find a toy gun somewhere.Is this to say that if they raided my house they would find 'facist' uniforms,'nazi' prpoganda and 'lethal' firearms??

Sparks

Have I misread it, or were they not airsoft guns that these lads had in the bag? And RDF uniform bits - I'm pretty sure that having either is an offense in the circumstances.

As to the "nazi propaganda", my mother's a history teacher, so if you searched her house you'd find a copy of Mein Kampf - that wouldn't make her a nazi though!

It's a pity the Sindo is the country's largest selling newspaper, given the way that stories in it have a tendency to be poorly researched I mean, it's not like we'd tell them to bugger off if they called any of the associations to ask questions!

Rew

Sparks wrote:

Have I misread it, or were they not airsoft guns that these lads had in the bag? And RDF uniform bits - I'm pretty sure that having either is an offense in the circumstances.

Sounds like they were airsofters. They had some Defence Forces berets (nothing specfic to which type).

Indo is a rag TBH, alot of the article is padded out with scaremongering and stories of unlrealted incidents.

Rovi

For an idea of the range available and what many airsoft guns look like, take a look here- http://www.xcalibertactical.com/airsoft.htm
Lots of eeeeeeeeeeeevil black guns there.


Erm........................... while you're there, take a look at this stuff :eek: :eek: :eek:

I particularly like the "PREDATOR" PACKAGE


.

Citizen_Erased

Yeah I saw a video somewhere of someone shootong a tv with one of those BB miniguns.
Completely destroyed it.

[edit] actually , it appears to be on that site also.

jaycee

Erm........................... while you're there, take a look at this stuff

I particularly like the "PREDATOR" PACKAGE

Wow !.. as toy's go... :eek: :eek: :eek:

I don't know if i'm horrified , jealous or amused ..

Flattop 15

Im not saying that there is noting to it, just that one leaflet was found that had somthing to do with a neo-nazi group. So does that mean that i am a nazi because i have a WW2 officer SS tunic? No i just have an interest in mill uniforms. Some replicas were also recovered. So what? they were not running down the streets waveing them at people. they had them in bags and replicas are not against the law (YET)


These YOUNG lads were just stupid and most likely just doing this type of thing because they tought it was cool :rolleyes: silly as it may have been.

whatever they were up to in the North west, must not have been upsetting anyone, as there was no reports of anyone seeing camo clad men doing tactics or that. As to the de-act if that is what it was, well then that was breaking the law they should get punished for that.

I like my freedom to do what i want in this country. As long as i do not harm anyone by my activitys i feel i should be permitted to do what i want as long as it is within the laws of the land. This country is starting to fall into a semi police state, as England has and continues to. The job of the law enforcement powers that be, should not be an easy one in a free and democratic country. Im not saying the gardi have it easy :eek: but new laws are alway being brought in for one thing or another that permit the gardi to invade abit more each time into peoples lives.

I know the old saying "sure if you have notting to hide...." but no i dont agree with that look on it. lets say the gardi got it into there heads that because i had a ss tunic + licenced firearms, i must be cooking up something sinister in my head. with the powers they have now, i could be draged into a station and questioned for hours on end. I could be seen as a racist gun owner or any number of spins that some promotion hungry officer puts on it.

Before you all say it could never happen. look at what happened in donegal for years
and im sure its only the tip of alot of things that could come out yet, all over the country.

All im saying is that all of you should just have a look around your own home and just think. If for any reason someone was to have a look around, that had no idea of shooting interests at all, what would be going trough there minds?

What about the copy of guns and ammo on your coffee table, the combats in your press, your net history on the computer. Its only afew things. But i hope you see what im getting at.

Someone asked, why is there no follow up to this story? my view is because there is no story there. If there was a real story there im sure it would be front page for weeks and righty so. At least then the press would be doing a service for once by exposeing neo nazi scum.

[/QUOTE]



I agree with you whole heartledy.You should have the right to do what you want,as far as I am concerned this is supposedly a demoracy,so some of the more unpleasent type of opinions and ideals do have to be tolerated[Eg nazisim or whatever]for all I could care they can hold a party rally on a Nurnberg size up in Donegal,if they dont bother the good folk of that county or any other citizens of Ireland with their bigotry.

Trouble is;that what they did was against the law.Second thing was,that they got caught doing it as well.
Third ,because of that they give the media whores somthing new to sell or a new stick to hit us ligit shooting folk with.if you are going to do somthing illegal why not keep it QT?Which this lot obvisouly hadn't a clue about.
Fourth;It does seem convient that with airsoft bans being mooted in the UK,that this happens here and the kid getting shot up North with a "pellet pistol",that all this happens in a short timeframe.Conspircy theory anyone?
As you said it is becoming more of a police state,news is,it isnt going to get any better.

chem

It won`t be long now, till we hear the same lines as the british goverment are feeding the people. "We are taking in the new ID system to protect the freedoms of the people" or "The new powers are designed to allow the police to fight the treat of ....... more effectively"

its all abit to much like big brother to me 1984 n all.

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
Milton Friedman, born 1912

Flattop 15

chem wrote:

It won`t be long now, till we hear the same lines as the british goverment are feeding the people. "We are taking in the new ID system to protect the freedoms of the people" or "The new powers are designed to allow the police to fight the treat of ....... more effectively"

its all abit to much like big brother to me 1984 n all.

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
Milton Friedman, born 1912

Belive it or not already on the cards so to speak[no pun intended]if the UK goes ahead with theirs,due to the "massive" interchange of people travelling between all these island groups.At least our current minister Mc Dowell has said it wont happen under him and he personally considers it an infringement of personal privacy.

Sparks

Flattop 15 wrote:

At least our current minister Mc Dowell has said it wont happen under him and he personally considers it an infringement of personal privacy.

He's also said that he thinks our firearms laws are overly onerous and need to be relaxed. I've taken to looking at what he does more than listening to what he says these days, sadly

Away Team

Flattop 15 wrote:

Todays Sunday Independant.
www.unison.ie
GREAT!!! Just what we flippin need,this close to the CJB!!
25 airsofts and a deact Browning GPMG mounted on a tripod[thought that would be a Browning 50 cal??] found in a house of a bunch of wannabe stormtroopers in Crumlin.Bunch of feckin muppetts!!!Going around in cammo for three weekends catching the BUS to Donegal!!!

Well this sound like a classic… we get the same over here, I'm sure you remember it well flattop, where the Police make a 'bust' just before a critical vote on gun laws. Funny that, how they never lift the muppets AFTER the votes, always just before were it will make shooters look bad… not that I'm cynical.


Jimbo

jaycee

He's also said that he thinks our firearms laws are overly onerous and need to be relaxed

Is that a direct quote ..?

I hope it isn't something that we have to bring up in the context of..
... " But you said.... "

I doubt very much if anything is going to be decided this side of the summer recess.

Flattop 15

It has got to be a misquote.
Cos if what he said is true,he considers our gun laws too stringent and they need to be eased up on!
If what he said is genuine and proceeds with it.He has my vote.
Although I think a MOJ saying somthing like that and meaning it is about as likely as a aerobatic formation squadron of flying pigs!

Sparks

jaycee wrote:

Is that a direct quote ..?

Flattop 15 wrote:

It has got to be a misquote.

From 26 Feb 2004 (and about the second or third post in the Parlimentary Questions thread:

4. Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the policy on the issuing of licences for 0308 firearms and other similar armaments; if his attention has been drawn to the fact that this policy prevents marksmen from representing Ireland internationally; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6399/04]

Mr. McDowell: The Deputy will appreciate that there is a difficult balance to be drawn between, on the one hand, having a firearms policy which seeks to limit the availability of particular classes of firearm for reasons of public safety and national security and, on the other hand, endeavouring to meet the requirements of those who wish to participate in international shooting competitions.

Since 1972 the general approach has been that the use of all rifled firearms of a calibre exceeding .22 inches and all handguns should be curbed. It was the view of successive Ministers for Justice that public safety and security was best served by that approach as it was designed particularly to make it more difficult for pistols, revolvers and heavy calibre rifles to come into the hands of those who would misuse them, not least in the context of the then prevailing security situation. The policy has not been inflexible in that in 1993 the then Government authorised an increase in the calibre of firearms which might be licensed for deer culling and competitive target shooting from .22 inch to .270 inch.

Granting firearms certificates, which authorise possession, use and carrying of a firearm, is a matter at the discretion of Garda superintendents in accordance with the relevant legislation. The Supreme Court found in May 2002 that in exercising that statutory function, superintendents could not be subject to directions from the Garda Commissioner. However, where a licence is required for the importation of firearms this, under law, is a matter for the Minister, and the long-standing policy would exclude the issuing of a licence for the importation of the type of firearm referred to by the Deputy.

I have heard from and met people who consider that policy antiquated. I can see some considerable force — this is a view which Deputy Deasy might share — in the proposition that the real danger to Irish society probably does not come from misappropriated sporting firearms or competitive shooting firearms, and that the prevalence of firearms and their availability from other sources is probably much more obvious as a problem than this particular problem. I want to review the position and address the difficulties that competitive shooters currently encounter.

Mr. Deasy: I appreciate the response. The problem is that this has been going on for about five or six years. The Minister spoke of balance in the policy, but there does not appear to be much of that. There does not seem to be much common sense here. A European champion applied for a licence and he poses no threat to national security, yet he was not allowed a licence.

This is officialdom gone mad on drugs. It is crazy that somebody like Nicholas Flood — we do not have many European champions — cannot get a certificate for a 0308 firearm. There must be some way out for those people who represent Ireland in these shooting competitions. The Minister informs me that neither he nor the Garda Commissioner has the power to direct a superintendent in this case. The person concerned has been informed that the superintendent has consulted his superiors and that they have said “no”. It is does not make sense; this is madness. He is caught in a bureaucratic minefield — a crazy tangle of bureaucracy and officialdom.

Somebody needs to step in and make sense of this. It does not seem the gardaí are willing to do that. The Minister must address this from a common-sense standpoint. I appreciate the Minister said he will review this but, in the meantime, this country is losing money by not being able to hold these events. Somebody must step in, make sense of this and provide a way out for these people who represent our country.


Mr. McDowell: I agree with Deputy Deasy. The situation at present is unduly conservative and a political steer is needed. I confess that I met some of the relevant interests over a year ago and promised them early action. For one reason or another, I have been blown off course on that issue.


Mr. Costello: The Opposition was not co-operative, I presume.


Mr. McDowell: I am glad Deputy Costello is interrupting me while I am admitting to fault. An intelligent, common-sense approach will make for a situation which would be more satisfactory. I share Deputy Deasy’s view that people engaging in a competitive sport recognised at Olympic level and the like should not face insuperable or impossible odds on a domestic legislation front just because they live in Ireland, which is not wholly different from any other society in the world in terms of the firearms issue, when we all just wish them well when they go abroad to represent the State.


Mr. Deasy: The Minister said he will undertake a review. How soon will he do so? These people have been put on the long finger for years.


Mr. McDowell: I will stick my neck out and say that I will ask my officials to set in train a review with a view to coming to a firm decision by mid-summer of this year.

Flattop 15

Yeah... say one thing do another.About as genuine a seven euro note.
or as beliveable as an Irish politican telling the truth at a tribunal

Sparks

And still a lot better than him saying that we've no merit to our appeals at all, isn't it?

chem

what he said is not worth the paper its wrote on sparks. im sure he was forgetting what he was saying, as soon as he was saying it!

He will be listening to all the gardi crying out for the guns to be taken off the streets and will have to be seen doing somthing, so low and behold its the licenced gun owners who get the full strenght of the law trown at them. its like any other job, you find the handiest way out of it.

same old same old

Sparks

I wouldn't go quite that far chem, though like I said, I'll be watching the deeds more than the words. Put it this way - if words don't matter, why was everyone up in arms at the firearms act being amended through a criminal justice bill? The substance of the act was unaffected by the name of the bill, so wasn't it all just words?

The worry over what the gardai have been saying about licenced firearms and crime levels is a very valid one though. Hence the several PQs pointing out that there are no statistics to back up the assertion, and that the firearms used in crimes weren't available to licenced owners at the time of the crimes.

Flattop 15

, I'll be watching the deeds more than the words.

And you said a mouthful of truth there Sparks.
Thats where it comes down to.
But unfortunatly,I am more cynical of the denizens of the Dail past records being able to produce more U turns,broken promises and other feck them they are only voters attitudes,not to mind bumbling incompetance than actual ,benefical,practical well thought out,non quick fix,knee jerk legislation.
So I will take mr Mc Dowells comment even on the Dail records with a large pinch of salt.
Just lets say ,maybe we should move to Missouri. The "Show me" state.

chem

Sparks i feel the answer is in the published paper you posted.


Mr. McDowell: I will stick my neck out and say that I will ask my officials to set in train a review with a view to coming to a firm decision by mid-summer of this year.

Now look at the date of the paper:From 26 Feb 2004

I know that .308 rifles are being licenced now but there has been no "firm decision" by the minister. It was a court case that desided it all in the end :mad:

More tax payers money spent, instead of the minister putting "his neck out" to make the law clear. He does not want to be the one, seen as turning Ireland into america, as the press would pick it up and run with it.

There was a piece already afew months ago, in one of the papers, talking about machine (or was it assault?) pistols and the like, being licenced here now, along with high power rifles.

The press will be all over the new criminal act, when it comes out, and will be picking out everything they can to make a story.

ASBO`s, sawn off`s and the like are being mentioned here end there. And all in all alot of talk about getting tough on crime and gun crime. so then how will it look to the press, when in the very same act, he seems to be allowing all sorts of nasty looking, anti air craft sounding calibers into the country :eek:

As well as that he is allowing pistols!!!! Oh my god :eek: Sure they are bound to be stolen and used in crime

I have a funny feeling that, sure people can have pistols and large cal rifles, in the new law. But i feel that alot of pre conditions will be put in for ownership of same. And im not talking a €100 gun safe. Im very worried that he has been mentioning that the shooting elite will be catered for. He could go alot of different directions with that one. Most of them not good for people who just shoot for a hobby.

Flattop 15

There was a piece already afew months ago, in one of the papers, talking about machine (or was it assault?) pistols and the like, being licenced here now, along with high power rifles.

The press will be all over the new criminal act, when it comes out, and will be picking out everything they can to make a story.

As the media whores will do.Sensationalism sells,but has there been any "ban all guns"groups set up because of it????No reason the public has a VEERY short memory.Unless it is pulling quids out of their pocket,they aint intrested enough to make a fuss.

when in the very same act, he seems to be allowing all sorts of nasty looking, anti air craft sounding calibers into the country :eek:

[/QUOTE]

Nothing like that has been mentioned in the act.

I have a funny feeling that, sure people can have pistols and large cal rifles, in the new law. But i feel that alot of pre conditions will be put in for ownership of same. And im not talking a €100 gun safe. Im very worried that he has been mentioning that the shooting elite will be catered for. He could go alot of different directions with that one. Most of them not good for people who just shoot for a hobby.

[/QUOTE]

Got to remember about politicans.They are asked to comment and legislate on everything under the Sun .99.9% stuff they havent a clue about orhave experianced.So if he says "elite" he proably assumes that all pistol shooting is olympic target shooting or whatever.Remember these lot assume that pistol ranges still exist here,and that for somhow neigh on 30 plus years they were mothballed or kept on going.Dont take everything they say literally.
The general consensus seems to be on this sofar,this is from Gardai.If you are in a recognised rifle and pistol club or a deer hunter and you have all the preconditions to owning a gun.It will be no problem.
Time will tell on this.
But the ONE thing I do regret and this is for ALL the shooting organisations in Ireland is that we wasted 30 plus years,NOT PLANNING for the day[however remote it seemed at the time]that this gear would be returned.This caught us on the hop as it did the govt.
Anyway,back to the thread.Has anyone heard anymore on our intrepid nazi airsoft brigade???

Sparks

Flattop 15 wrote:

Anyway,back to the thread.Has anyone heard anymore on our intrepid nazi airsoft brigade???

There was a Parlimentary Question on it on the 30th:

552. Aengus Ó Snodaigh asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if a neo-Nazi group is now active and organising in Dublin; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23965/05]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Garda authorities that there is no evidence to suggest that a neo-Nazi group is active in the Dublin area. However, I am further informed that, on 18 June last, a number of persons were arrested in connection with firearms offences. The associated Garda investigation is continuing in an effort to establish if the arrested persons have any links to such organisations either within or outside the jurisdiction.