Demonstration against the decision to turn of audible signals

Dakeyras

For those who may be interested there is a demonstration at City Hall this evening at 6:30 to voice opposition to the decision by Dublin City Council to turn off the audible signals at some traffic junctions.

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=70309

For those who may be unaware some audible signals have been turned off at busy city centre pedestrain crossings because they may confuse sighted users. Personally, i think that having these audible signals turned off due to the fact that they can confuse sighted users is not acceptable at all.

Sighted users can make use of both looking for the green man and seeing traffic stopped to navigate these pedestrian crossings. The turning off of these signals makes it increasingly difficult and dangerous for a blind or visually impaired person to make their way safely across these pedestrian crossings.

Some audible signals have been turned off for months and Dublin City Council have refused to turn these signals on again, despite requests to do so.

As i say, for anyone interested, i shall be attending to voice my opposition.

miju

dublin city council are idiots IMO i may well go to this

Amz

Might go along myself if I can make it in to town for them.

Dakeyras

_raptor_ wrote:

dublin city council are idiots IMO i may well go to this

idiots indeed, on this issue anyway. I just find it impossible to believe that having them on poses a greater risk to sighted people than having them off does to blind or visually impaired people.

Bureaucracy gone mad

Amz

Sighted people should be looking at the right signal in the first place and shouldn't be relying on the audio signal. They shouldn't be getting confused by it if they're crossing the road safely to begin with.

It really beggards belief.

murphaph

What's the story with the 'vibrators' that DCC say are built into the crossings, are they inside the button press module?

Amz

They're at the top of it (On the ones I'm familiar with anyway)

That's hardly an appropriate solution though.

Dakeyras

As Amz said I dont think that vibrating buttons are an appropriate solution, the signals in question are busy pedestrain routes and i think these audible signals are quite neccessary.

Sighted people have a number of options to know that it is safe to cross, the audible signal being the least of these (along with the vibrating button), and removing it for the benefit of the few sighted people who could be confused to the detriment of the safety of all blind and visually impaired people is unreasonable.

Naos

This is without a doubt the most ****ed up thing I've heard the Irish Government do this year.

billy the squid

Im curious, we have had audible pedestrian lights now for close on 30 years. the first ever lights for people who are blind-deaf were installed on Gracepark Road in 1990 or 1991.

why after all these years do the council feel the need to turn them off all of a sudden.

motorists and sighted pedestrians should be using the eyes they have been given to watch for the green lights before taking appropriate action. anyone behind the wheel of a car who is using his ears and not his eyes to drive should not be on the road.

Victor

Dakeyras wrote:

Sighted people have a number of options to know that it is safe to cross, the audible signal being the least of these

Not quite. Sight is passive, hearing is not (you can't just close your ears to block out sound, like you can with your eyes).

amz, question: Do blind people use the [edit] audible signal as a "homing beacon" when crossing or just an advisory that the green man is showing?

Amz

Victor, to be perfectly honest, I never knew about the buzzer 'til last year when BTS mentioned it. It's never something I've used so I can't comment.

I only use the audio signal to help me crossing roads if I'm not able to see the green man properly i.e. if there's glare from the sun, or otherwise. Sometimes I do have to rely on it though.

Just as an aside, was anyone else at the Get Ahead conference in DCU on June 9th?

I'd be interested in getting other people's opinions on the day.

Victor

Sorry, edited, I meant do people use the audible signal homing beacon.

Dakeyras

Victor wrote:

Not quite. Sight is passive, hearing is not (you can't just close your ears to block out sound, like you can with your eyes).

But with any degree of intelligence at all you can combine both what you hear and what you see to make a decision or indeed just rely on what you see, dismissing the sound if it proves too confusing for you. That's a choice that you can make and have the luxury of making.

Victor

I think the problem is that people were only relying on the sound (public safety measures need to take into account the stupidest 10% of the population) - "If it's beeping, I must be able to cross" - while not realising that the beeping is for a different crossing at the same junction.

While I understand their logic in changing the existing system, I don't think they should abandon it.

Amz

It's quite obvious that the concerns of blind and visually impaired people are being completely ignored by DCC.

I don't know, part of me thinks that if these sighted people are stupid enough to get hit by a car because of this then maybe it's no loss to the gene pool, but that's not really a good stance to have either ...

secret_squirrel

I cant believe anyone would be dumb enough to switch off the audible signals. Havent these people got anything better to do?

Beaurocracy gone mad.

Hope the demo went well. Isnt this effectively discriminating against blind/partially sighted people? That cant be legal can it?

Amz

DCC obviously feels that blind and visually impaired people are not entitled to move as freely and as independently as possibly around Dublin City.

It would seem the quality of life of "stupid" people is valued more highly.

Dakeyras

And it seems DCC have finally come to their senses and turned the signals back on:
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=147878054&p=y4787876x

and a little clip of the demonstration:
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=70556&search_text=signals

Bee

Unfortunately it's not over yet according to the Wednesday 6/7/05 Irish Times article (sorry I can't post the link).

Once again Democracy is being trampled upon by the unelected fools in DCC.

Mail this DCC person owen.keegan@dublincity.ie and express your outrage at the attack on visually disabled people

I suppose we will have to have a few deaths of the visually impaired at Traffic lights before DCC's Traffic Dept is shamed into doing as they have been instructed too by the relevant people i.e. the visually impaired and their supporters

Bee

secret_squirrel

Bee wrote:

Unfortunately it's not over yet according to the Wednesday 6/7/05 Irish Times article (sorry I can't post the link).

Can you clarify what you mean? have they gone back on their word and not switched the audible signal on or what?

CtrlSource

Just came across this thread and was amazed by it :mad:

The rationale that DCC put forward for their original decision seems totally erroneous to me.

If a person with normal sight finds themselves relying solely on an audible signal to decide when to cross a road AND is also confused by whether to cross when it beeps slowly or fast - well then excuse me, but they're just nuts! (not to mention lazy).

People without sight difficulties - who have all of their senses to rely on when crossing the road - really shouldn't be complaining about this even if a few of them are confused. A bit of common sense is needed. It would also help if they used their eyes :rolleyes:

For those who need it, these tones are a small but important safety enhancement to pedestrian crossings. They should be retained.