Chelsea are sad again

PHB

http://www.chelseafc.com/article.asp?hlid=287399&m=6&y=2005&nav=news&sub=latest+news

Latest News
How the fixture list penalises Chelsea
Saturday, Jun 25, 2005
How the fixture list penalises Chelsea

The Premier League fixture list has given Chelsea five away games and one at home following Champions League Matchday Group games this coming season. Yet Arsenal have five home games and one away.

Should Manchester United and Everton qualify for the Group stage, they will both have three at home and three away.

Chelsea’s extreme Premier League demands following the six Champions League Matchdays are: Charlton away, Liverpool away, Everton away, Manchester United away, Portsmouth away and Wigan at home.

In contrast, Arsenal’s six are: Everton home, Birmingham home, Manchester City home, Sunderland home, Blackburn home and Newcastle away.

Last season Chelsea was fortunate that the Group game away matches were on Tuesdays and the home games on Wednesdays, giving one more crucial day for recovery after travelling. Arsenal had home games on Tuesdays and away ones on Wednesdays. The home and away split is decided when the draw is made.

The results following Chelsea’s six games were: Drew 0-0 Tottenham home; won 1-0 Liverpool home; won 4-0 Blackburn home; won 1-0 Everton home; won 4-0 Charlton away; and drew 2-2 Arsenal away. Four at home and two away.

Arsenal, runners-up to Chelsea in the League, fared as follows: Drew 2-2 Bolton home; won 4-0 Charlton home; lost 2-0 Manchester United away; drew 1-1 Crystal Palace away; lost 2-1 Liverpool away; and drew 2-2 Chelsea home. Three at home and three away.

Poor things

gandalf

LOL now that is sad !!

Mitch Connor

well their away form was shocking last year so they will be annoyed the FA have given them a tough time to rectify it....oh wait, they had the best away record!

Big Nelly

Id be more worried about playing Drogba the donkey up front.....seriously need new striker!!!

Mitch Connor

ssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - no they don't.....

Jimi-Spandex

Surprise Surprise.

Rent boys whinging again.

I think it's all just Mourinho et al getting the players to develop a Ferguson style 'everyone against us' mentality in the dressing room. You could see it from their reaction to Mourinho's bench ban last season.

Jivin Turkey

Its an internally generated article posted on a CFC website, you hardly expect it to be slating them do you?

It doesnt even quote an official club source, and all it does it point out facts, Chelsea have five away game post CL ties which is hardly favourable to them.

There is something even more "sadder" than this do I need to say what it is? :rolleyes:

PHB

Its an offical website, similar to if it was posted on ManUtd.com
It is an offical club source, the entire thing is.

I like the way you paint it.
All its doing is pointing out facts,
sure aren't they lovely, pointing out facts to us.
Thats really great of them.
Oh but wait, they are pointing out specific facts.
Hmm, maybe it isn't just them being really nice

Jivin Turkey

"An offical club source"? So what? Niall Barnett? Who is he?

You just seem like you want to do some more Chelsea baiting.

An "offical club source" (sure you could be reaing The Sun with a opening like that) is disappointed that Chelsea have five away games after CL ties, where other clubs have as little as one.

Where does it say that this lad is an "offical clubs source"? Or more importantly, who cares?

Mitch Connor

so it is a FACT the list penalises chelsea..... yet, right, whatever!

Jivin Turkey

Tauren wrote:

so it is a FACT the list penalises chelsea..... yet, right, whatever!

No its a fact that Chelsea have five away games post CL and Arsenal only have one.

Its also a fact that Everton and United will have three.

Its also written by some nobody and was posted to stir some sh1t.

Mitch Connor

written by some 'nobody' who works for the chelsea website....

and the title is "How the fixture list penalises Chelsea", you said it only states facts.... that is not a fact, that is a moan.

therecklessone

Moaninho's had a whinge about it as well

Jivin Turkey

Tauren wrote:

written by some 'nobody' who works for the chelsea website....

Exactly.

Tauren wrote:

and the title is "How the fixture list penalises Chelsea", you said it only states facts.... that is not a fact, that is a moan.

Chelsea are at less advantageous position to Arsenal as regards the fixtures post CL. So hence the fixture list does "penalize" them by its very definition.

Mitch Connor

erm, no - they are no being punished with the list, they are not playing anyone no one else has to play, they are not playing fixtures they would not otherwise play, so where are they being penalized?

Penalise: impose a penalty on; inflict punishment on (go on, work that actual definition around the moaning)

therecklessone

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Chelsea are at less advantageous position to Arsenal as regards the fixtures post CL. So hence the fixture list does "penalize" them by its very definition.

Penalise

penalise - impose a penalty on; inflict punishment on

Suggests an intention to impose a penalty, no? Are we suggesting that the PL intended to punish Chelsea by tweaking the fixtures?

[edit]Beaten to it[/edit]

Jivin Turkey

I didnt think it would come down to posting actual definitions but I think this one is more suited.

To impose a handicap on; place at a disadvantage.

The PL put the fixtures together, they are not put together randomly, the fixtures that the PL put together as regards post CL fixtures are less advantageous to Chelsea than they are to Arsenal.

Thats not to say that at other points of the season they could be more advantageous to Chelsea but we are talking about post CL.

therecklessone

Jivin Turkey wrote:

The PL put the fixtures together, they are not put together randomly

Source?

Jivin Turkey

I dont have a source but it they are obviosuly tweaked to avoid certain matches occuring.

Do you think they would allow Liverpool play United and Everton play City both at home on the same day? Or all the London teams play all the Northern teams on the same day?

Im not saying they have intentionally gone out to penalize Chelsea (although given Chelsea's record with them you would never know), but they way the fixtures have come out Chelsea are disadvantaged post CL games.

growler

I have no doubt that this unfair fixture list was created by the PL to punish Chelsea for their various antics over the last season.

It's blatantly unfair and designed to hinder Chelsea's ambitions and ability to win trophies. Not surprising really considering the old boys club that is the PL.
If this was done to Arse or Man U do you think Fergie and Wenger would be happy?

therecklessone

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I dont have a source but it they are obviosuly tweaked to avoid certain matches occuring.

There's nothing obvious about it. AFAIK the fixtures are generated randomly, I've yet to hear any compelling evidence to suggest otherwise.

SAT 17-SEP-05 Arsenal v Everton
SAT 17-SEP-05 Aston Villa v Tottenham Hotspur
SAT 17-SEP-05 Blackburn Rovers v Newcastle United
SAT 17-SEP-05 Charlton Athletic v Chelsea
SAT 17-SEP-05 Fulham v West Ham United
SAT 17-SEP-05 Liverpool v Manchester United
SAT 17-SEP-05 Manchester City v Bolton Wanderers
SAT 17-SEP-05 Portsmouth v Birmingham City
SAT 17-SEP-05 Sunderland v West Bromwich Albion
SAT 17-SEP-05 Wigan Athletic v Middlesbrough

SAT 24-SEP-05 Birmingham City v Liverpool
SAT 24-SEP-05 Bolton Wanderers v Portsmouth
SAT 24-SEP-05 Chelsea v Aston Villa
SAT 24-SEP-05 Everton v Wigan Athletic
SAT 24-SEP-05 Manchester United v Blackburn Rovers
SAT 24-SEP-05 Middlesbrough v Sunderland
SAT 24-SEP-05 Newcastle United v Manchester City
SAT 24-SEP-05 Tottenham Hotspur v Fulham
SAT 24-SEP-05 West Bromwich Albion v Charlton Athletic
SAT 24-SEP-05 West Ham United v Arsenal

On both weekends, 5 out of 6 London clubs are playing in the capital. If they were in the business of tweaking fixtures, wouldn't they endeavour to avoid that? There are far too many combinations to be avoided for that to be a consideration IMO.

On a related topic (or two):

Why does Moany have a go at the Arsenal fixtures but say nothing about ManYoo and Everton? It was teh same last season, all Sir Alex this and Sir Alex that, but barely disguised contempt for Arsenal? Whats his beef?

And why should the PL do anything for any club playing in Europe other than provide them with as much rest as is possible? Surely the competitive nature of the league should come first, instead of cushy home draws to suit the CL clubs. Don't the other clubs in the league deserve consideration as much as the CL clubs?

PHB

Hahaha.
Look at the whole fixture list,
Chelsea have the most piss easy run during Christmas time known to man
26 Fulham (H)
28 Man City (A)
31 Birmingham (H)
2 West Ham (A)

Literally walks in the park, all of them.
Theres a chance Man City might get a draw, but liek come on.
After the ****e that Mourinho came out with last Christmas, he should be happy with this, but no, theres always something to complain about.
Compare that to

26 West Brom (H)
28 Birmingham (A)
31 Bolton (H)
2 Arsenal (A)

Two mega hard games!!
PLOTS!!
Can't believe it, I'm sure Fergie's put in a complaint to the FA about it.

BTW:

Man Utd:
Liverpool away, Fulham away, Spurs Home, Chelsea Home, West Ham away, Everton Home
3-3

Arsenal got 5-1
Man Utd got 3-3
Chelsea got 1-5

Do you hear Man Utd complaining about Arsenals fixture list?


---

Another way of looking at it is that Chelsea have a home game every week but one before their big CL matches.
This is ****ing outragous.
They will get a nice easy game before hand to get their confidence going.
I can't ****ing believe this.
Arsenal have to play 5 tough away games before their CL matches, its a ****ing conspiracy by the FA to punish Arsenal for them having to deal with the Cole fiasco.
Fukcing unreal.

---

p.s. I always got the impression that Mourinho and Fergie have a certain respect between each other.
That certainly doesn't exist between Fergie and Wenger, and I don't think it exists between Wenger and Mourinho

growler

well they have to tweak some (if not all) of them , for instance Chelsea and Fulham can't play at home on the same day.

therecklessone

growler wrote:

well they have to tweak some (if not all) of them , for instance Chelsea and Fulham can't play at home on the same day.

Why not? Spurs and Arsenal can, and we're only a tube station apart!

Mitch Connor

growler wrote:

I have no doubt that this unfair fixture list was created by the PL to punish Chelsea for their various antics over the last season.

It's blatantly unfair and designed to hinder Chelsea's ambitions and ability to win trophies. Not surprising really considering the old boys club that is the PL.
If this was done to Arse or Man U do you think Fergie and Wenger would be happy?

So you potentially have 3 home games in the CL followed by away games in the Prem..... shockingly unfair!

therecklessone

therecklessone wrote:

Why not? Spurs and Arsenal can, and we're only a tube station apart!

Actually, next seasons fixtures don't have any weekend where Spurs and Arsenal play at home the same day. Well I'll be!

I *seem* to recall a weekend last season where they did, can't remember which though.

therecklessone

COMPILING THE FIXTURE LIST
The release of the 380-game fixture list for the Barclays Premiership 2005/06 season marks the end of a complex process involving several months of work for representatives of all the parties involved.

The Premier League work alongside the Football League, together with representatives of the Football Association, the Football Supporters' Federation and the Police to create a final schedule, which is acceptable to all.

The domestic football season runs from August through to May the following year, with the league fixture schedule having to take into account the requirements for international matches, European club competitions, the FA Cup and League Cup.

First priority in the calendar goes to international matches - such as World Cup and European Championship qualifiers - with European club competitions, the FA Cup and League Cup taking respective precedence on their selected dates.

Fixture questionnaires are also distributed to the 20 Barclays Premiership clubs on which they can make date requests and specify their preferred midweek day and kick-off time.

A variety of requests are made by clubs in the Premier League and Football League, with the compilers asked to meet - on average - over 100 date requests.

The success rate is almost 90 per cent for such requests, which range from pop concerts, carnivals and political party conferences to the Darlington Dog Show.

Given the amount of data to be handled, software developed by Atos Origin is then used to compile the full fixture list taking into account the agreed schedule and requests from clubs.

Each club across the league is also paired with another, and these clubs will not play home matches on the same day - for example Manchester United and Manchester City.

The Atos Origin software also ensures that any club who are away on the opening day of the season will be at home for their next match, and prevents clubs having a run of more than two home or away matches in sequence.

The fixtures for Boxing Day matches are hand-picked to ensure that as many fans as possible are able to see their team in action at a time when the availability of public transport is reduced.

Once the Atos Origin software has produced the fixture list, it is analysed by the fixture officers from the Premier League and Football League before being approved by representatives of the FA, FSF and Police.

The fixtures are then released to the public, with the selection of matches to appear live on BSkyB being made shortly after.

Source

Jivin Turkey

therecklessone wrote:

There's nothing obvious about it. AFAIK the fixtures are generated randomly, I've yet to hear any compelling evidence to suggest otherwise.

They definitley are not. It would be a logistical nightmare.

A good example is Liverpool and Everton. They dont once over the course of the season both play at home on the same weekend. Are you telling me thats coincidence? Do I have to check United's and City's fixtures to see the coincidence again?

therecklessone wrote:

On both weekends, 5 out of 6 London clubs are playing in the capital. If they were in the business of tweaking fixtures, wouldn't they endeavour to avoid that? There are far too many combinations to be avoided for that to be a consideration IMO.

London is a big city and can cope with its teams all playing there on the same weekend. But the thing is on both of these weekends there are two London derbies.

I doubt you would ever see all three northern sides playing in London on the same weekend, or Liverpool and Everton, or United and City. Id also say it would be rare for the six London clubs to entertain clubs from out of town.

therecklessone

Jivin Turkey wrote:

They definitley are not. It would be a logistical nightmare.

A good example is Liverpool and Everton. They dont once over the course of the season both play at home on the same weekend. Are you telling me thats coincidence? Do I have to check United's and City's fixtures to see the coincidence again?


London is a big city and can cope with its teams all playing there on the same weekend. But the thing is on both of these weekends there are two London derbies.

I doubt you would ever see all three northern sides playing in London on the same weekend, or Liverpool and Everton, or United and City. Id also say it would be rare for the six London clubs to entertain clubs from out of town.

Check my previous post.

Now stop yissir whinging. You'll get the benefit at another stage in the season.

Jivin Turkey

therecklessone wrote:

Check my previous post.

Sorry, I was writing mine as you posted yours.

But does your post not indicate that the fixtures are not randomly generated

therecklessone wrote:

Now stop yissir whinging. You'll get the benefit at another stage in the season.

I dont even follow Chelsea! I just agree that they are disadvantaged in comparison to Arsenal with those particular fixtures.

therecklessone

Jivin Turkey wrote:

But does your post not indicate that the fixtures are not randomly generated

Yeah, thats why I posted it. That was me accepting that its not random...

It does show a couple of important facts, one being the pairing of teams to avoid the two playing at home the same weekend, i.e. ManYoo and Citeh, Spurs and Arsenal.

It also highlights the role the police have on the fixture list (so the nightmare scenario of the three NE clubs travelling to London may be covered by that), and also the right the clubs have to request specific scheduling. It doesn't lend any weight to the suggestion that the PL have penalised Chelsea. IMO thats too subjective a term to apply, but I agree they do place Chelsea at a disadvantage. Like I said, they'll benefit in other ways. Swings and roundabouts and all that.

Jivin Turkey

therecklessone wrote:

Yeah, thats why I posted it. That was me accepting that its not random...

Are you saying I win?! * me jumps up and down before doing cart wheel at the corner flag*

therecklessone wrote:

It doesn't lend any weight to the suggestion that the PL have penalised Chelsea. IMO thats too subjective a term to apply, but I agree they do place Chelsea at a disadvantage. Like I said, they'll benefit in other ways. Swings and roundabouts and all that.

I just think its one of the swings that CFC (and Im sure all the clubs) want to be on.

growler

before therecklessone found the source for how the fixtures were compiled I looked at the PL site but couldn't find the same info, so I emailed them and they replied as follows ( I know it's been already covered but here it is anyway) :

"Thank you for your email. As I am sure you can appreciate, the
compilation of the FA Premier League fixture list is a complex process.
Matches cannot simply be fed into a computer and churned out randomly by
a computer programme.

There are many factors that need to be take into account before the
computer software can do its work. Firstly, International, European and
Cup games take precedence over Premier League fixtures. Once these
dates are ruled out, the schedulers must then take account of the
demands made by police and clubs as to when they should be at home or
away and when they should or should not play a particular team.

Our main priority is the sequencing of home and away fixtures, followed
by police requests and club requests and unfortunately these cannot
always be met. The system would not cope with any further constraints
imposed upon it.

If the Premier League fixtures were compiled in isolation it is possible
that a better set of fixtures could be produced. However, our fixtures
are, by necessity, produced in tandem with those of the 72 clubs in the
Football League."


The reason why they don't allow Chelsea and Fulham to play on the same day is (a) the tube wouldn't cope with the numbers and b) a hangover from the hooligan days. In fact it's the cops who seem to have the most influence on who plays who on their turf.

Tbh , i've never really understood the rationale behind the home advantage idea, but it certainly seems to be of great importance to the managers and players ergo away games after CL games would be *considered* tougher and perceived as not giving Chelsea a level playing field that both Arse and Man U enjoy as a result of next seasons fixtures.

therecklessone

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Are you saying I win?! * me jumps up and down before doing cart wheel at the corner flag*

Nah, I'd call it more of a moral victory...

Pepe LeFrits

growler wrote:

I have no doubt that this unfair fixture list was created by the PL to punish Chelsea for their various antics over the last season.

It's blatantly unfair and designed to hinder Chelsea's ambitions and ability to win trophies. Not surprising really considering the old boys club that is the PL.
If this was done to Arse or Man U do you think Fergie and Wenger would be happy?

Evidently Mourinho's paranoid siege-mentality tactics are working on more than just the Chelsea players

milltown

Quote:
Fixture questionnaires are also distributed to the 20 Barclays Premiership clubs on which they can make date requests and specify their preferred midweek day and kick-off time.
Unquote

Either Chelsea's got lost in the post or they requested home games before their euro ties. Or they forgot about it.

TwoShedsJackson

Well if they're seriously worried about the Charlton, Everton, Wigan, and Portsmouth games then they're in trouble

Mitch Connor

but think of all the travelling, those poor fellas have to walk all the way from london to Liverpool/Manchester after running all the way from somewhere in europe to london, or do they sit in first class on the plane back from europe, then a couple of days later sit on a lovely comfortable coach to the prem game