Alcohol ...

incredula pert

and at the same time halenger, you think you're more mature because you don't drink?

sillyness.

don't drink, fair dues. But me drinking doens't make me *immature*, if i can do so responsibly, there should be no problem.

GlitterB

What is with the narrow minded views on drinking? I can understand peoples problems with binge drinking completely but the scenarios that are being used as examples are extreme cases which dont happen that often or at all really.Most people know their limits when it comes to alcohol and dont go out with the sole intent of getting twisted.
Jeez Aoibheann different strokes for different folks ya know?If people want to drink let them and stop assuming they are doing it because they need it to enjoy themselves.

halenger

Who said I'm more mature because I don't drink? Now that is funny, seriously. If you knew me at all you'd know full well that I never, ever claim to be in any way mature. Oh and on another point I'm not a) required to read your post (which I didn't, I don't have the attention span to read long posts, unless they're incredibly interesting) or b) reply to it. Life, world, choices, yadda.


Now... What are we actually talking about? I think I gave my opinions a few times and have had them picked apart. I'm all for debate but I'm not a debater, never have been and never will be.

halenger

GlitterB wrote:

What is with the narrow minded views on drinking? I can understand peoples problems with binge drinking completely but the scenarios that are being used as examples are extreme cases which dont happen that often or at all really.Most people know their limits when it comes to alcohol and dont go out with the sole intent of getting twisted.

I'm getting tired of this open-minded and narrow-minded talk. Just because someone has a dislike of alcohol which they are perfectly entitled to have doesn't make them narrow-minded.

And yes, I have given extreme cases and not so extreme cases. The point I've been making, and I feel I'm really wasting my time making this point again, is that these cases are common enough and people do go out with the sole intention of "getting twisted". I'm not saying all the time but it's regular enough amongst people I know from college. It's because it is college - last fun years of your life kinda waffle - that people do this. I've had enough of people telling me this doesn't happen and that sorta crap - it happens, you'll see it when you go to college. Get to grips people. I'll hear no more "it doesn't happen, it never happens, it only happens very very rarely" - you're entitled to say you haven't seen it happen or it doesn't happen amongst people you know but you are not entitled to tell me what I do or don't know. End of story.

Plunky

It amuses me that all of those defending alcohol are saying that the extreme cases are only rare, whereas the TRUTH is that these things happen every day and night of the week in this city alone.

@Colhol: Considering that halenger is just finished his final exams in a 4 year degree program, I find it laughable that you're suggesting his

"experiences are of the people who are experiencing their first taste of freedom"

incredula pert

why not defend alcohol? the problem is not that it exists, but that people abuse it.

no you dont have to read it, but if you're going to participate in a discussion, you best know what you're discussing.

halenger

Alcohol is great. It has many great uses...in the laboratory.

You seem to be reply to things that haven't been said. Noone, that I saw, said alcohol should not exist. We are and have been discussing the abuse of alcohol.

StupidLikeAFox

halenger wrote:

We are and have been discussing the abuse of alcohol.

I made it clear all along we were discussing alcohol in general. Dont backtrack as in almost every post i said we werent focusing on the bingers/alcoholics

halenger

No you said, "you" weren't talking about binge drinkers and alcoholics. You can talk about what you wanna talk about. I made my points cover both situations.

And I've made it clear oh so many times that I've no problem with people drinking in moderation (or other) once it's not forced upon me.

Can we be friends now?

LiamD

A certain amount of alcohol is good for you.It has some sort of clearing effect on the arteries, reducing the risk of them blocking.I'm sure that some of you *uber* smart people are going to disagree with that, quoting your college medical book etc. but that was told to me by my chemistry teacher who spent years upon years in the lab and this is one of his conclusions.So frankly, I don't wanna hear it, mmmk?

halenger

I already quoted a link earlier that explained the same thing just in more detail. Worth a read in my opinion.

LiamD

Sorry, I skimmed some of the posts TBH.Waaaaay too many opinions in there for my liking.

Raphael

Yeah, it sucks when people let their opinions influence debates alright

Aoibheann

ColHol: to avoid making this longer than it already is, I'm not quoting your earlier post.

...I leave Dublin with plenty, for one thing. I have a great time, and there's usually something left that sticks in my mind.

Plenty of people end up like Best. However, so many people bury their heads in the sand about it and refuse to believe it's going on. Ireland is well known for it by this stage, and quite frankly, it's an embarrassment. I have no problem with people drinking in moderation(except for that fact that for most people here it's illegal). Fair enough if you can control yourself, that's great.

There's just the thing where there are quite a lot of alcoholics. they are in the minority, of course, but when you have a girl of, I think, 17 years old, I wont name names, saying that, after I mentioned some stats on underage drinking(31% underage irish females binge drink), that she was proud to be a binge drinker, and in the minority, and that the 69% that didnt do as she did were 'losers'. This girl was a CTYIer. And the sad part is, she seems to believe what she's saying. Drinking problem in Ireland? What problem? :rolleyes:

I know that a lot of people dont get completely pissed. I know plenty of people that can control themselves. But on the other hand, I know plenty that cant.

I've chosen not to drink because I just dont want to. I'm sure you can have a perfectly good time with it, it's just not my thing, and it never will be. I have no problem with other people drinking, just as long as they know what they're doing. And at our age, a lot dont.

Plunky

Can't find it at the mo, but there is a 4 question (CAGE) survey that is the determinant of whether a person is an alcoholic or not.. I reckon most of you would be surprised how you would end up ranking on it - it's a lot easier to be addicted than people think, and that's the god-honest (and medical) truth!

Here's the questionairre: http://www.renascent.ca/addiction/cage.html

halenger

I saw that in the link that I posted earlier alright but they didn't really swell on it, that I remember.

An elaboration on the 4 questions (linked from Eoin's link)... 20 questions: http://www.renascent.ca/addiction/20q.html

Aoibheann

incredula pert: again, my post may be too long to include your quote, so I wont bother.


first of all, please refrain from making assumptions about me when you clearly havent a clue about me. Thank you. And dont call me dear.


I know that a lot of people dont drink to get drunk. I know people that can go out, drink one or two, and that's it. Again, I know people on the other end of the scale.


Fatty foods arent all that relevant to this, there's no laws against iunderage fatty food eating. But I can see what you mean, some people go way overboard, but most do know their limits.


George Best is my example, as most people have heard of him. Granted, most dont turn that way, but guess what? An awful lot do. I never said that everyone did likewise, you seem to have taken what I said and twisted it completely. Did I ever once state that everyone becomes an alcoholic? I dont think so. Your're distorting everything I've said to suit your arguments, because they just dont work.



I know the problem with alcohol is that people binge on it. As much as you may think otherwise, Muireann, I am not stupid. The problem we have though is that so many binge on it. I dont know if reducing the age would work as it has in other countries. It's become so bad now that it's hard to see where it will end.


i'm not on my high horse. You're taking things completely the wrong way, or so it would appear. Moderation is all fine and good, I'm just not bothered drinking, though a lot of others are. And fine, once they do things in moderation.


I never once said that everyone who drinks believes it is everything. You're making wild assumptions. I know a lot of people exaggerate. But a lot lie and say they havent been drinking all that much when it's clear they have a problem. I've seen it too many times for my liking.


I'm not using sensationalist arguments, you're just taking them as that. but I know I cant disuade most from drinking, but they'll learn in due course.

LiamD

Aoibheann Brady wrote:

There's just the thing where there are quite a lot of alcoholics. they are in the minority, of course, but when you have a girl of, I think, 17 years old, I wont name names, saying that, after I mentioned some stats on underage drinking(31% underage irish females binge drink), that she was proud to be a binge drinker, and in the minority, and that the 69% that didnt do as she did were 'losers'. This girl was a CTYIer. And the sad part is, she seems to believe what she's saying. Drinking problem in Ireland? What problem? :rolleyes:

Jeez the way your going on I'd say that too if I was subjected to 'Aoibheann's lecture on binge drinking' in my legal studies class just to shut you up!Each to their own and I'm sure you defined binge drinking before your (reliable?) statistics.Often people disagree on just what binge drinking is and to me, a girl having four or more drinks in a session is not binge drinking, if the person can handle it, which I think many 17 year old girls can.

Aoibheann Brady wrote:

I know that a lot of people dont get completely pissed. I know plenty of people that can control themselves. But on the other hand, I know plenty that cant.

That says more about you and the people you associate yourself with than the general young Irish population.

Aoibheann

Raphael wrote:

Yeah, it sucks when people let their opinions influence debates alright

Op-in-ion? where can I buy me one of those?

Aoibheann

LiamD wrote:

Jeez the way your going on I'd say that too if I was subjected to 'Aoibheann's lecture on binge drinking' in my legal studies class just to shut you up!Each to their own and I'm sure you defined binge drinking before your (reliable?) statistics.Often people disagree on just what binge drinking is and to me, a girl having four or more drinks in a session is not binge drinking, if the person can handle it, which I think many 17 year old girls can.



That says more about you and the people you associate yourself with than the general young Irish population.

no, it wasnt in legal studies, this happened over msn, I believe you were part of the conversation, but you never said something quite as idiotic as that. though I recall you did approve of underage drinking, and were quite emphatic about it.

the people I associate myself with are all perfectly lovely people. Some drink, most dont. Those who do, know their limits. The people I know that binge drink, I tend not to associate with, I just dont have any respect for them. *shrugs*

Plunky

LiamD wrote:

a girl having four or more drinks in a session is not binge drinking, if the person can handle it, which I think many 17 year old girls can.

No, you're right, but...
REGARDLESS of how well they can handle ir, and also of whatever age the person in question is, the consumption of 5 or more alcoholic beverages "in one sitting" (as in, on one night out, at one party, or whatever) is the definition of binge drinking. Ha.

Irishstabber

The problem we have though is that so many binge on it. I dont know if reducing the age would work as it has in other countries. It's become so bad now that it's hard to see where it will end.

Off course it would...
I drink, I can handle it. I dont over-do it. My relatives are relaxed about drinking and any parties I go to I can drink. This is the reason I am not a 'binge drinker'. Sure I used to drink outside with 'de lads' but that was complete c**p.
And because of this I know why they, and probably others, drink outside and end up like they do.(P**sed)
Its because they have no where else to go, they cant drink at home, obviosly. They cant go to a pub. Then they cause trouble for the area, breaking windows, shouting, fighting etc...

Mainland Europe is so far ahead when it comes to binge drinking control. They dont crack down on it. They let you, from mainly 16, drink Beer(and alcopops) in pubs--Not Spirits. You can stay till 10 or so or longer if with an adult. Then at 17 you can stay as long as you want--but still only drink Beer(and alcopops). When you reach 18 you can stay as long and drink whatever you want.(Experience from Germany)

If we in Ireland were to implement something like this Binge drinking among the youth at least could be tackled effectivly. It definitely wouldn't be as bad as it is now at least. Seems to have worked in Germany.

StupidLikeAFox

It would be too hard to implement tbh

Irishstabber

It doesnt have to come into effect straight away. It could be phased in over a few years or so.
All that needs doing is the changing of a few laws and a changing in the regulation of alcohol and pubs.

halenger

I don't think it would really have the same effect here. Ireland is often referred to as having a "drinking culture". I know that Germans are very fond of their beer but I really don't know.

If it worked and lessened the amount of binge drinking in colleges then wonderful, please bring it in and so on. That would introduce a lot of problems that pubs/clubs wouldn't like though. Having to ask for ID at the bar for one. Queues at bars (in clubs especially) are often atrocious - if they had to ask for ID also they'd probably lose a lot of custom. Again, I'm all for it if it works but I'd imagine a huge fuss from the pubs and clubs. That said a lot of fuss was kicked up from the people about the smoking ban and that did happen.

GlitterB

Aoibheann Brady wrote:

There's just the thing where there are quite a lot of alcoholics. they are in the minority, of course, but when you have a girl of, I think, 17 years old, I wont name names, saying that, after I mentioned some stats on underage drinking(31% underage irish females binge drink), that she was proud to be a binge drinker, and in the minority, and that the 69% that didnt do as she did were 'losers'. This girl was a CTYIer. And the sad part is, she seems to believe what she's saying. Drinking problem in Ireland? What problem? :rolleyes:

Well hun I would say this girl probably had a lifetimes worth of your overbearing opinions and statistics and knew how easy to wind up you are or maybe *shock horror* she does binge drink!!But one girls attitude to drink does not reflect a nations attitude to drink.And this girl more than likely has mitigating circumstances in her life which influence her attitude to drink but they are that girls problem with drink NOT the entire ****ing nations problem with drink.

Aoibheann

GlitterB wrote:

Well hun I would say this girl probably had a lifetimes worth of your overbearing opinions and statistics and knew how easy to wind up you are or maybe *shock horror* she does binge drink!!But one girls attitude to drink does not reflect a nations attitude to drink.And this girl more than likely has mitigating circumstances in her life which influence her attitude to drink but they are that girls problem with drink NOT the entire ****ing nations problem with drink.

....it was an example of how bad the drinking culture is. She's not the only one. Definitely not. I mean, Ireland gets its reputation from somewhere, it's not just some random tag it was given.



And maybe, just maybe, she meant what she said and wasnt trying to wind me up. I dont care if she goes and makes an idiot of herself, it's her own problem, so it wouldnt wind me up.

StupidLikeAFox

In fairness irelands drinking tag isnt a new thing, some use it as an excuse to go overboard though.

Stiny!

I see there are a few of you here that don't drink by choice. Good for you. I don't drink either but instead of being my own choice, it's because I can't drink (genetic liver condition- long story)
Anyway, the reason I'm posting this is to say that not being able to drink hasn't ruined my life or made me a social outcast. I can go out to pubs with friends and have a good time, etc. and drink nothing but water. I don't know how true this can be with other people, it all depends on who you hang out with. There were a few people who tried to force me to drink a bottle of jack daniels just so they could watch me turn yellow as my liver digested itself. Needless to say, I don't hang out with them anymore...
But I'm still pro-choice on the whole drinking issue. I don't care who drinks and who doesn't. As long as they don't stab me in a fit of drunken rage, I'm cool with it. After all, it's their liver/brain/wallet that they could end up hurting, not mine.
You could say what if they drive under the influence and hit me? Well, they're idiots and should be punished to the full extent of the law. As long as they don't hurt me or anyone else, what's the problem with drinking?

TalkISCheap

It would be too hard to implement tbh

I'd be very interested to see some research on just how difficult.

I'll not post me opinion right now because:-
a) I couldn't be bothered having to defend it tonight
b) It would be far too long
c) I have other things to do, like watch TV

Just une questione: Should the level of alcohol consumed by a "responsible" adult be regulated?

Should the guy in the bar be forced to say "You've had enough"?

People talk about choice, but how far should the choice to kill yourself extend?

(imo i dont think that it should be regulated by the state, but i'd like to see what other people think)