Straight Acting or Camp? Do you have a preferance?

ajmurphy62

Just from asking around it appears that alot of straight acting guys dont like to be seen with camp guys, or to get with them. I was just wondering which people prefered and why?

damien

I despise the term straight acting. It's like the people who are masculine and don't adhere to some camp over-the-top stereotype are going against their gay nature or something and not being themselves.

fletch

I prefer straight acting guys.....actually I prefer straight guys

azezil

I'd much prefer to be with someone who was as camp as knickers than someone who'd pretend to be something they're not.

Hmm_Messiah

straight acting ?

Doesn't the term suggest so much ignorant opinion of LGBT that it should be avoided. Its a nonsense anyways
In behaviour how is straight different than gay (other than the obvious activities ) ?
and the word "acting", some people complain that "camp" is pretensious and so put on, how the hell does it differ from "acting" ?

Easily the question could be asked which do you prefer camp or non camp.
I find very camp people annoying erm "objectively" but peopel I get to know who have those traits I enjoy very much.
If a question of which I'm "attracted to" have to say - the person , I can't see the magick confusion of human attraction being quite so ...pathetic

swiss

Straight acting. A contradiction in terms.

But since I know what you mean, I have to say that it doesn't really bother me either way. I don't like the behavioral extremes of being either very butch or very effeminate, but very few guys would belong to those stereotypes. However, given the choice between a guy who was quite butch, or a guy who was quite camp, I would probably choose the latter. But it's quite low down on my list of priorities.

fletch

azezil wrote:

I'd much prefer to be with someone who was as camp as knickers than someone who'd pretend to be something they're not.

What you are implying there is that all straight acting guys are pretending to be something they are not.
I have lots of striaght acting gay mates. Two of them are rugby players and have a genuine interest in sport, they're not trying not to be camp, they just aren't

ajmurphy62

Well i'd be attracted to either. Yea, sometmes camp guys are head wrecking, but then again sometimes there are straight acting guys just as annoying

Hmm_Messiah

fletch wrote:

What you are implying there is that all straight acting guys are pretending to be something they are not.
I have lots of striaght acting gay mates. Two of them are rugby players and have a genuine interest in sport, they're not trying not to be camp, they just aren't

he isn't implying anything, straight acting means just that, a pretence. And even when its not used in that way like the examples you gave it is somehow shallow, A gay person acting straight ! How else is there to understand it .

And the idea of Rugby and sport demostrating their straightness, perpetuate a stereotype why don't ya

azezil

fletch wrote:

What you are implying there is that all straight acting guys are pretending to be something they are not.
I have lots of striaght acting gay mates. Two of them are rugby players and have a genuine interest in sport, they're not trying not to be camp, they just aren't

I'm doing nothing of the sort.
Perhaps a better way of putting it would be someone who "pretends to be straight", who hides in the shadows and won't accept who they are.

damien

fletch wrote:

Two of them are rugby players and have a genuine interest in sport, they're not trying not to be camp, they just aren't

Then they are themselves, they are not acting, so they can't be classed as "straight acting". The term seems to be used a lot in negative way by people who are uncomfortable that some guys like to watch a game of rugby and drink a few beers and couldn't give a flying fck about Kylie. All of a sudden this is classed as an attack on the sequins and tiara mafia and they used the term to imply those people are not being themselves and are false.

I do know those who call themselves "straight acting" and haven't a clue about sports apart from wearing sports kit and do their best (in hilarious ways at times) to act "manly" and have often been heard giving out about the "bloody queens and fags around here" yet give them one pint and they are more over-the-top camp than an Azezil at a Boards Beers.

[off-topic] My home is starting to get quite cold. Who would have thought I'd agree with hmmm_messiah on something?

ixoy

Dreadful labels aside, we all know what you mean here. I don't like either extreme ends because I find both a bit off-putting. Beyond that, I take it on a case-by-case basis: those who are too butch can be less fun to be around whereas those too-camp can be too draining to be around (IMHO). It'd never stop me, in any way, from getting to know someone though.

Hmm_Messiah

oops
Just realised your the guy who just started contributing posts, so I don't mean in anyway to be vicious or anything.

But the term straight-acting is very "iffy" even when your intention is known.

fletch

Striaght Acting is merely someone who doesn't conform to the commonly perceived stereotype of what a gay person is. It's simply a label used to describe a gay person who doesn't act overtly gay. Why you would take issue with the term is beyond me?
"Most"(generalization accepted) straight men don't go around in 3quarter length pants, a pink tank-top, spiky hair, spray on tan & have a lisp in their voice. Therefore gay guys that don't conform to that standard are seen as straight acting in the same light that guys that do fit that stereotype are labelled "camp" So what, it's just a label

swiss

straight acting means just that, a pretence

Literally interpreted, yes.

However as I understand the term in common parlance it indicates that a person shares behavioral traits that are considered by society to be the preserve of heterosexual people, or conversely that such a person does not broadly share the traits that again would be considered by society to be the preserve of homosexual men.

As the definition above implies, the term "straight acting" is a misnomer. Heterosexual men may act in a very camp manner. Homosexual males may (and often do) act in what is perceived to be a non camp or "straight" manner. Hence it is probably best to avoid using this term because of its ambiguity and also for the reasons you've outlined. But it doesn't annoy me as much as it seems to irritate other posters here.

Sport and rugby do not "demonstrate" straightness, but it again fits in to societal perceptions of camp and non camp. What are you really railing against? The use of the term "straight acting", or the connotations it invokes?

damien

fletch wrote:

Striaght Acting is merely someone who doesn't conform to the commonly perceived stereotype of what a gay person is.

No, it is a term concoted by bitter gay people who do their best to belittle and discriminate against others in their community that they feel insecure about. The ones that so nastily use this term want everyone to be like them and if they don't conform, they are branded fakes.

Hmm_Messiah

For the record, it does offend me as a term , or irritate me greatly. I am very much the kind of person who would be called straight acting.

The thing is I am not acting, this is me. Where it annoys me is where people find me more acceptable than Camp Cyril simply on my behaviour. Maybe its a reaction/overrreaction to the amount of secrecy/mistruths about being gay or not in my past.

Other than that I just think its a phrase we could do wellto replace, like phrases like gaybashing, I guess I like words to have a literal meaning

Now I am off to get in a spot of rugby, followed by some 5 aside, maybe check those manly Foo fighters in concert, oh and I might hurl some verbal abuse as some women in the pub, all the while unknown to any one listening to some Madonna remixes on the Zen

Hmm_Messiah

any one for an arm wrestle ? :rolleyes:

fletch

damien.m wrote:

No, it is a term concoted by bitter gay people who do their best to belittle and discriminate against others in their community that they feel insecure about. The ones that so nastily use this term want everyone to be like them and if they don't conform, they are branded fakes.

Oooh opened up an old wound there I think.
Anyway I've said my piece so there ya go. Your personal experience of the term has obviously been very different to mine

damien

fletch wrote:

Oooh opened up an old wound there I think... Your personal experience of the term

Nothing to do with personal experiences per se. Personal observations of people who use the phrase as well as some of anthropological research brought me to this viewpoint. I don't like the term and I think it is divisive to our community.

Stark

I've had the term "straight acting" used on me a few times. I'm sure damien.m would disagree, which is kind of reassuring. It means I haven't gone down the "gaa kits & jock straps" road yet The way I see it, I didn't dump one set of stereotypes (girls, cars & football), just so I could get bogged down with another set (Kylie, river island and highlights).

Now I'd shout a few slogans about being proud to be simply me and all that, but I don't want to turn into a black woman either

BuffyBot

Way too many people get way too worked up about small things like this. It's what drives me insane about gay people somedays.

MicraBoy

I always took the term str8 acting to mean non-camp. Nothing to do with your interests neccessarily, but to do with mannerisms. Hence I would describe myself as str8 acting and would prefer guys who are str8 acting.

I don't know another term used commonly to describe the state of being non-camp (lol aside from non-camp, but that won't do). Of course these are all labels and labels are bull, but in the modern world of the internet they are useful tools on occasion (on gaydar more like).

bopper

damien.m wrote:

No, it is a term concoted by bitter gay people who do their best to belittle and discriminate against others in their community that they feel insecure about. The ones that so nastily use this term want everyone to be like them and if they don't conform, they are branded fakes.

Bull****! Two of my closest friends are in no way camp, Fletch is one of them. I am. But not once has either of them ever called me fake, or made me feel insecure about who I am. Now and again they might take they piss, but it's always only meant as a bit of friendly banter, and I understand that, they're never nasty about it.

At the end of the day "straight acting" is a term commonly used among the gay community for people who aren't camp or effeminate. I don't see the harm in using it myself. If you don't like the term just get the **** over it and use something else.

damien

BuffyBot wrote:

It's what drives me insane about gay people somedays.

But worked up in a "not getting upset about such a small thing" kind of way?

damien

bopper wrote:

At the end of the day "straight acting" is a term commonly used among the gay community for people who aren't camp or effeminate.

It's a terrible pity that people need to create a new label for people that are classed as a subset of the gay community just because they are not camp or effeminate. One would have thought if people were to be labeled that "gay" alone would have sufficed.

TCamen

It's a terrible pity that people need to create a new label for people that are classed as a subset of the gay community just because they are not camp or effeminate. One would have thought if people were to be labeled that "gay" alone would have sufficed.

I think people will always need adjectives (or labels if you will) to describe others. If 'camp' and 'effeminate' are acceptable adjectives, I don't see any reason to exclude 'straight-acting' as a descriptive term as long as there exists a person or persons to which it applies. I'm not sure what alternative there really is to describe gay men who aren't overtly camp or effeminate, I would imagine suggesting 'manly' or 'masculine' would be just as offensive to the posters who've taken offense to 'straight-acting'.
IMO, simply saying 'gay' to most people conjures more a mental image of Graham Norton than perhaps a typical grrr manly man that just happens to enjoy the company of many men (or Graham Norton)

I really don't think it's a big deal, but each to their own. As to the original question, I'd gravitate towards the middle ground rather than extremes, but in terms of friendship, variety is always a good thing.

Pet

I have quite a few gay friends, and it came as a shock to me when some of them told me, because they didn't fit the stereotype. I soon came to realise that the camp, bitchy effeminate queens were only a small, vocal minority.

I'd imagine it must be pretty damn annoying to be lumped in with the aforementioned queens if you're just a regular guy who likes other men instead of women, so I see no problem with using the term "straight-acting". But someone should invent a replacement, because it's not necessarily about "acting straight", it's more about "not acting camp"...

TCamen

I'd imagine it must be pretty damn annoying to be lumped in with the aforementioned queens if you're just a regular guy who likes other men instead of women, so I see no problem with using the term "straight-acting". But someone should invent a replacement, because it's not necessarily about "acting straight", it's more about "not acting camp"...

This is what I was trying to get at -- there isn't really a generally acceptable and widely used alternative to 'straight acting' that can be used to describe the 'non-camp' gay guys, so until there is, I don't see the big deal.

damien

TCamen wrote:

This is what I was trying to get at -- there isn't really a generally acceptable and widely used alternative to 'straight acting' that can be used to describe the 'non-camp' gay guys, so until there is, I don't see the big deal.

But this would imply that non-camp guys are not sufficiently labeled by "gay" and the fact that they get lumbered with the term "straight-acting" further implies that gay people in general are camp and effeminate. Why is there a need to find a polar-opposite to camp? Is there an opposite to "Blue Eyes" or "Dubliner"? Why do we need to create special types of gay that strenghten stereotypes that gay means camp, apart from special circumstances and that these special circumstances are when gay men overcome some natural handicap and go against the grain to become ordinary?

Sounds like some midweek TV movie. "Overcoming all the odds and impediments, Scott StLovehard trained in the ancient ninja ways to remove all traces of a lisp in his voice and a mince in his step, to become Bob Smith, an ordinary guy who talks about rugby, drinks alcohol from umbrella-less glasses and who just happens to fck men."

We have camp straight men, we don't have straight-acting straight men do we?

TCamen

But this would imply that non-camp guys are not sufficiently labeled by "gay" and the fact that they get lumbered with the term "straight-acting" further implies that gay people in general are camp and effeminate. Why is there a need to find a polar-opposite to camp? Is there an opposite to "Blue Eyes" or "Dubliner"?

My original point was that people - straight, LGBTQ or otherwise - will always look to find labels for groups of people. I don't see it as perpetuating the notion that gay = camp. I don't know why everything has to be about presenting a united gay community, because it's ridiculous to assume that all gay people are the same as much as it is to assume that all Irish people think and act the same. IMO, 'gay' is a more general term, and because of the social ideas attached to that word (i.e the more camp Graham Norton, Carson from Queer Eye kind of gay man), often a further distinction should be made or is sought to be made in order to qualify different types of gay persons.
In the same way there's butch, lipstick, diesel lesbians, there are camp and there are straight-acting/non-camp men (to identify two broad gay male types). I don't think that the non-camp men should have to forgo the distinction out of respect for a greater gay community and that offense might be taken if they require the distinction to be made.

Why do we need to create special types of gay that strenghten stereotypes that gay means camp, apart from special circumstances and that these special circumstances are when gay men overcome some natural handicap and go against the grain to become ordinary?

I really don't believe that by referring to oneself as 'straight-acting', it somehow demeans gay men that are happy to simply call themselves 'gay'. The way you've phrased it, it sounds like it's something to be ashamed of to actually somehow be an ordinary (i.e apparently straight) guy who happens to like men. The gay community with the camp people and the non-camp people is just that - a community. However, within that community, sections might seek to label themselves or others in one way or another in order to set themselves apart - I mean gay women generally go with 'lesbian', I'm not quite sure why certain people need to say 'queer' as opposed to 'gay', but I'm not going to judge them for it, or insist them use preferred terms.

we don't have straight-acting straight men do we?

No, mostly because the term would be quite redundant generally speaking. Personally I don't qualify my being gay with anything further, but I certainly don't begrudge anyone who wants to make a distinction between 'camp' and 'straight acting' on their own behalf or on the behalf of others. I just don't see the insidious connotations of the phrase that others clearly do.