Straight Acting or Camp? Do you have a preferance?

Hmm_Messiah

It looks like people are arguing about different things thinking they are the same.

adjectives/labels are necessary I guess and so if some guy wants to differientiate himself from Graham Norton as menioned then he could say str* acting ( or just NAGN - Not a Graham Norton)

I think people having the problem (inc. me ) is that the label is inaccurate, if these people are not "acting". Acting is being other than you are. If people. mean straight behaving there might be a subtle difference but still the question would be

so what is gay acting/ gay behaving ?

I understand it as physical/emotional attraction to same sex and having same sex relationships. In that single trait how do they differ ? they don't

so what are they trying to differentiate themselves from ..... well campness I'd guess
So there lies the problem: the term straightacting continues to perpertuate the idea camp = gay. And I just would of thought it time the " gay community" would prefer to lose the myths, the stereotypes.

I don't like being called straight acting because it makes me sound like I am putting on a performance other than simply being me. I don't like how "some" others use it because it comes across as a dislike of something that is essentially them, being gay!

As for alternatives ? if the inuit can have 40 words for types of snow (hehe i know they don't, another myth) then I am sure the vocabulary can stretch to some new phraseology. In fact, technically I'm not really gay, 'cos Im a miserable git.


How about
LTBBOJLU- Likes the boys but otherwise just like you

or

LTPWB - Likes to pay with balls

damien

I find myself agreeing with hmmm_messiah again, I'm getting dizzy over it.

I find it quite offensive that gay people have an inert negative feeling towards the word gay. The fact that bopper and micraboy see "straight acting" as an opposite to camp implies to me that the word "gay" is not enough to describe someone that cannot be differentiated from a straight man apart from who they sleep with.

We don't label straight men as "straight acting" yet we feel the desire to label gay men as "straight acting". The opposite to gay is straight, so the opposite to straight acting is "gay acting" is it? and yet people say the opposite to camp is straight acting too.

The straight world assumes that the majority of gay people are camper than camp. I find it sad that the gay community instead of saying camp is just a trait of some people go ahead and enforce the stereotype by creating a subclass of gay folk known as "straight acting" to describe ordinary guys.

There should not be a need to use "straight acting" to describe "non-camp", there should be no need to create a new label at all when the word gay should be sufficient. Using the term straight acting to label a gay guy who is just as ordinary as a straight guy does nothing but keep the divisons between gay people and straight people intact.

MicraBoy

I think we're largely all agreed that the term str8 acting isn't really the best phrase in a literal sense.

I personally think the word gay describes someones sexuality not their mannerisms. Str8 acting describes something more akin to traits like eye colour, where the person is from, serious/funloving, shy/outgoing etc. It's just a way of describing something about yourself or someone else. If someone said to you "I'm quite outgoing" you wouldn't start waving your fist saying "Are you implying I'm shy?"

*Can of worms*
The word gay originally meant lighthearted/happy, so it technically has nothing to do with sexuality and so shouldn't we apply a similar argument and say not all gay people are happy so we shouldn't label ourselves as such.
*Can of worms*

It also strikes me that str8 acting is a phrase like queer or n***** that may have started off as an offence term in some way but is now adopted with pride by those who aren't camp. Similar to the word queen which is used both proudly and derogatorily.

hazimel

damien.m wrote:

The fact that bopper and micraboy see "straight acting" as an opposite to camp implies to me that the word "gay" is not enough to describe someone that cannot be differentiated from a straight man apart from who they sleep with.

But it's not enough. Not for gay people, at least, which is the predominant issue here. Your issue seems to be that gay people using the term "straight-acting" enforces a stereotype (to straight people?) that most gay men are camp, except for those that go out of their way to act non-camp, is that about right? But the fact is that it's mostly gay people that use this term and use it to describe a sexual preference.

"Gay 1: So what kind of man do you fancy?
Gay 2: Gay men.
Gay 1: Yeah, I sure wish someone would invent more words to describe
subsets of gay men, my gaydar profile just says I'm gay."

The term may not be the most PC term imaginable, but it suits our needs and since we all on this board seem to agree that "straight-acting" means "non-camp" and has nothing to do with the "naturalness" of being camp or not camp, I think you're generating a prejudice where none exists.

damien.m wrote:

We don't label straight men as "straight acting" yet we feel the desire to label gay men as "straight acting".

We don't need to label straight men as "straight-acting", it seems to come quite naturally to them.

damien.m wrote:

there should be no need to create a new label at all

I'd proffer a suggestion. What everyone here needs is a hyphen.
"Straight-acting" meaning "someone whose mannerisms are typical of the mannerisms of a straight person". This is as opposed to "Straight acting", meaning "an actor who performs an impersonation of a straight person".

ajmurphy62

MicraBoy wrote:

*Can of worms*
The word gay originally meant lighthearted/happy, so it technically has nothing to do with sexuality and so shouldn't we apply a similar argument and say not all gay people are happy so we shouldn't label ourselves as such.
*Can of worms*

I agree. That is a very good point. Not Every gay person is a happy one, and the meaning of the word gay is happy, therefore why do we use it?

lucernarian

I always thought that "straight acting" meant someone in denial of their (homo)sexuality, like those men who are married for 20 years and have kids but one day leaves them to go off with a man (just an example).

As for non-camp people, I think the word is stupid, and is grossly misused. I daresay that most words relating to homosexuality are stupid, based on ignorant stereotypes that the majority of people (most heterosexuals) have. I mean, think about the word "queer". But at the end of the day, that's the words that most people use and if you try to describe someone, you use words that they will understand. "Camp" may be a stereotype but it can be a pretty accurate one for some people, especially those who go out of their way to be effeminate.

Edit: I agree with the last few posts and the word "gay" is a good example of stereotypes although to be fair, people nowadays are less ignorant of homosexuality and while they may use the word "gay", they don't mean it literally

Hmm_Messiah

I agree. That is a very good point. Not Every gay person is a happy one, and the meaning of the word gay is happy, therefore why do we use it?

This is a good point ? "A" meaning, "one" meaning of the word is happy

goodbye means "god be with ye", should all agnostics/atheists no longer say goodbye ? words evolve in their meaning.

the problem with "straight acting" is it deliberately suggests a differentiation between it and the opposite being "gay acting".

Maybe if we remove the sexuality from it for a second

If you said you were "single acting" would your partner be thrilled or wonder why you need to describe yourself that way ?

Hmm_Messiah

suggest poll format

Do you prefer :

* the same sex

* the "opposite" sex

* either

* other

If same sex do you prefer:

*Camp as Christmas

*Less Camp than Christmas but tends to wave arms about quite abit and has kylie posters on the wall

* the guy with Oasis Posters, even a Ramones poster up, though he doesn't know any of their songs

* the guy who insists on constantly mention his girlfriends, or p***y as he does ya

* the guy who won't acknowledge you socially but back atthe flat wants you to call him honey and has more skin treatments in his bathroom than liz hurley

* the guy who plays soccer, and rugby, and rowing, and works out, and NEVER even notices the naked guys in the locker room

* the guy who holds your hand all night when your out, interrupting ever conversation with kisses and stroking your face

TCamen

I find it quite offensive that gay people have an inert negative feeling towards the word gay.

I don't see how wanting to describe certain traits in gay people is working against some grand scheme of 'the gay community'.

There should not be a need to use "straight acting" to describe "non-camp", there should be no need to create a new label at all when the word gay should be sufficient. Using the term straight acting to label a gay guy who is just as ordinary as a straight guy does nothing but keep the divisons between gay people and straight people intact.

But it's not enough. Not for gay people, at least, which is the predominant issue here. The fact is that it's mostly gay people that use this term and use it to describe a sexual preference.

Indeed, the original poll question was pretty much only focusing on sexual preference with regard to 'straight acting'. It bewilders me how the phrase makes some people so angry and offended to be honest. I never realised it was such a contentious phrase. I think my main issue is that I don't see the leap from descriptive phrase used amongst gay people to promoting division between gay people and straight people.

The term may not be the most PC term imaginable, but it suits our needs and since we all on this board seem to agree that "straight-acting" means "non-camp" and has nothing to do with the "naturalness" of being camp or not camp, I think you're generating a prejudice where none exists.

Again, totally agree. I don't think it has to be anything more than a means to an end, which is to describe certain gay men. "omigod he is like so straight acting" etc. :rolleyes:

Enigma365

I soon came to realise that the camp, effeminate queens were only a small, vocal minority.

I would agree with you 100%. I think the vast majority of gay people are not camp and could be regarded as "straight acting".

The only reason that society has a stereotype of gay people as camp is because if you are camp, you are more obviously gay.

For example, if a person walked by 100 people in one day, 10 of whom were gay but only 2 camp, he might think that he only saw 2 gay people that day, 100% of them who were camp. However he would not realise that he actually met 10 gay people, of whom only 20% were camp.

I have nothing against campness though....

MicraBoy

goodbye means "god be with ye", should all agnostics/atheists no longer say goodbye ? words evolve in their meaning.

Putting aside the fact that that, is the origin of the word not the meaning, why's it so hard to accept that the phrase "str8 acting" has evolved into meaning "the opposite of camp".

The word "acting" also has more than one meaning. Folks only seem interested in its use as "pretending".

the problem with "straight acting" is it deliberately suggests a differentiation between it and the opposite being "gay acting".

Well "gay acting" is a phrase you made up, so I don't have any understanding of it. It sounds like a literal opposite with no account taken of the meaning of the phrase "str8 acting". Particularly not in the context used by the OP.

Again "single acting" I dont understand the phrase as you have just invented it. Is it the opposite of "coupley" or the opposite of "double acting"?

hazimel

Enigma365 wrote:

I would agree with you 100%. I think the vast majority of gay people are not camp and could be regarded as "straight acting".

That depends on your definition of "camp", though

I actually think that a lot of gay people are pretty camp. And since I'm not attracted to camp men, the usefulness of the terms "camp" and "straight-acting" are abundant to me.

Hmm_Messiah

straight acting was a term some one once made up
as was gay etc etc

Its kinda simple: some people see it as a useful way to describe a trait , just like it would be ok to say you were quiet, or loud, or extroverted etc. That's all fine.

The fact does remain some people find the term unhelpful, unnecessary or offensive, and with valid reasons.

Simply though what then is the "opposite" to straight acting?

And I accpet that if a guy tells me he is straight acting then I know mre about him, just like if he told me he is into techno or garage etc. I just would not have much interest in some one who finds thats the best way he can describe himself, how he acts would become apparent I'd hope as i got to know him.

noncamp would distinguish me from camp, serious from frivolous/silly, masculine from feminine, quiet from loud, I don't have to continue a term which does to some people reinforce misundertanding. It is withing the wish of the " gay community" to be accepted/understood that I find it a misnomer.

I think thoose the opposing views have been repeated now quite a number of time sin the thread.

going back to the OP the choice is between S/A or Camp. Isn't there a significant number who fall in between ?

shay_562

Being entirely honest, I don't really get what all the fuss is about. I'd see myself as being straight-acting (with occasional bursts of campness) and I'd describe myself as that if I were talking to someone about it, but I don't think that means I'm somehow betraying my community or being homophobic or something. I think it's pretty clear that "gay" alone doesn't sum a person up (and thank god for that - sexuality alone doesn't define a person) and if you use the term "camp", you need an opposite, something to describe a gay person who isn't camp - in a way, I'd see someone specifically describing themselves as "not camp" as being more negative towards the stereotype. The term that's come into common usage is straight-acting, and while it may not be the most correct term (either politically or etymologically) it's the one most people would think of. What's the alternative?

BuffyBot

But worked up in a "not getting upset about such a small thing" kind of way?

Naturally..

Talliesin

I don't really find people that fit either label very well all that attractive. Someone who can camp it up, but who isn't camp I wouldn't necessarily find unattractive, but someone who being very camp, or very straight (as in, very much in-line with all of our society's norms) would be a bit of a turn off.

eskimo

Straight-acting. Camp guys remind me of women. And I'm gay. 2+2 = 4.

ajmurphy62

WOW! i just wanted to know which people preferd to Shag. LOL! never knew it was such an issue.

Stark

ajmurphy62 wrote:

WOW! i just wanted to know which people preferd to Shag. LOL! never knew it was such an issue.

Well now you know

rsynnott

Prefer camp guys myself. Realistically, though, beggars can't be choosers :P

wheresthebeef

is there not a certain degree of acting to both sides. like str8 acting people are gay, but seek to hide any kind of homosexual aspects of their character in order to appear straight to the wider community.
camp people act in an overtly and perhaps exxageratedly gay manner in order to maximise the knowledge that they are gay to the wider community.
in my opinion they are both acting in order to influence society is some way. i doubt either group are truly being themselves, not completely.

I agree we shouldnt try to further sub-divide the gay community by creating a series of levels of gayness. But i suppose its alrite to use a word which describes how a gay person likes to present themselves to society.
I do not like to present myself to society in general as being gay. I prefer to tell only the people i want to tell. I dont feel the need to be camp and act in a very animated fashion. So if the word for that is "Straight Acting" ,then fine. I am straight acting. If ye all agree another more suitable word thats grand too.
But I am gay. just like ye. I just prefer not to broadcast that.

Stark

wheresthebeef wrote:

is there not a certain degree of acting to both sides. like str8 acting people are gay, but seek to hide any kind of homosexual aspects of their character in order to appear straight to the wider community.

The thing is straight acting is used to refer to anyone who doesn't "fit the stereotype" regardless of whether they're totally open about their sexuality otherwise.

rsynnott

wheresthebeef wrote:

is there not a certain degree of acting to both sides. like str8 acting people are gay, but seek to hide any kind of homosexual aspects of their character in order to appear straight to the wider community.
camp people act in an overtly and perhaps exxageratedly gay manner in order to maximise the knowledge that they are gay to the wider community.

No, that's not correct, I don't think. Some people (including straight people) are naturally a bit camp, others are naturally more "straight acting". Gay people aren't under as much pressure to cover up campness as straight people.

shay_562

like str8 acting people are gay, but seek to hide any kind of homosexual aspects of their character in order to appear straight to the wider community.

I don't agree with this. I don't know about anyone else, but I act the way I do because it's the way that feels natural to me - I couldn't give a rat's ass about the wider community or how I appear to them.

wheresthebeef

shay_562 wrote:

I don't agree with this. I don't know about anyone else, but I act the way I do because it's the way that feels natural to me - I couldn't give a rat's ass about the wider community or how I appear to them.

thats a fair statement. i am just saying one way of thinking about it. i dont come across as camp so i wouldnt really know all that much about it from a personal stand point. only from a more observation of others standpoint.

Stephanos

It fascinates me that there has been little acknowledgement of the fact that a term may carry different meanings for sub groups of any society or niche. It summarises the fact that just as the gay community can also be guilty of prejudice and stereotyping despite dedicating so much energy against it.

I also think it is sad that little has been mentioned about the people that are 'straight acting' are those who are in circumstances where they themselves feel they must pretend or act out what they feel is more acceptable. Those of you who have branded that as 'pretence' are out of touch with harsh reality amd should direct your anger where it is more appropriate.

To a camp man who is comfortable with his mannerisms and behaviours I commend you. To the men that demonstrate the meaning of 'straight acting' in terms of pretence and tailored behaviour, I am proud to say that I show you compassion!

damien

Stephanos wrote:

I am proud to say that I show you compassion!

I think they gave out all the medals in the Empathy Olympics this week. Shame.

shay_562

the people that are 'straight acting' are those who are in circumstances where they themselves feel they must pretend or act out what they feel is more acceptable.

Again, what? Where does this impression come from that every gay guy who isn't camp is somehow repressed or "acting out what's acceptable"? "Straight-acting" doesn't necessarily mean "acting" in the sense of putting on a pretence - it means "acting" in the sense of behaving, as in, gay people whose mannerisms are more in keeping with heterosexual stereotypes than homosexual stereotypes. Suggesting that the camp ones are the only ones being true to themselves while the rest of us put on an act to try to "pass" is, quite frankly, insulting and ignorant. As for your compassion...three guesses where you can shove it.

Stark

Stephanos wrote:

I am proud to say that I show you compassion!

Wow. I haven't had this much urge to vomit since a forwarded e-mail told me in eloquent terms that a smile could beat clinical depression.

damien

Actually Shay I think Stephanos was giving one example of where people had to straight act to keep themselves in the closet. I don't think he was generalising that all who identify as straight acting are doing this.