Luas Development

markpb

strassenwolf wrote:

I don't think a bookie would given me any odds on the project "not having any adverse impact on transport in the city".

I very much doubt there'll be any stations built in the Interconnector. It would be nice, I suppose, to have a station between Heuston and the docklands but I don't think it's part of the plan.

I presume it would be bored like the DPT so they might have problems with vibrations but maybe because it will be routed so close to the river, they'll have to bore deeper. I can't see it causing any problems with transportation though.

MarkoP11

markpb wrote:

I very much doubt there'll be any stations built in the Interconnector. It would be nice, I suppose, to have a station between Heuston and the docklands but I don't think it's part of the plan.

I presume it would be bored like the DPT so they might have problems with vibrations but maybe because it will be routed so close to the river, they'll have to bore deeper. I can't see it causing any problems with transportation though.

Don't know where you have been ? Or is it that stupid politicans can distribute such information as to completly brain wash the public ?

There are underground stations for Heuston, Christchurch/High Street, Stephens Green, Pearse and Spencer Dock

There is zero point in even thinking about building this tunnel unless there are stations, the one at Stephen Green forms the link with Luas and possible future metro, Pearse is the key interchange point

The presentation and map is here

http://www.iei.ie/sectorpapers/GetSectorPaperDetails.pasp?SectorPaperId=25&MenuID=7

strassenwolf

MarkoP11 wrote:

There is zero point in even thinking about building this tunnel unless there are stations

Got it in one.

Then again, some of our planning has been along the lines of:

"other countries have stations on their underground routes, and really we can't see the point. It may in fact be a disadvantage. Hmm, we've got a better idea..."

murphaph

strassenwolf wrote:

The interconnector would be an entirely different matter and I don't think a bookie would given me any odds on the project "not having any adverse impact on transport in the city".

Well, you're right, The Heuston, Pearse and Spencer Dock underground stations should cause no problems as they're all of street or at least have plenty of space to drop shafts. Same goes for the green. High street though may cause problems requiring diversions for a time. Totally worth it though and likely to be a walk in the park compared to the Luas disruption (also worth it IMO) we've seen. Kenny's probably talking everything relative to the Luas.

Zaph0d

Has Olivia got a point about the archaeology of High Street? Presumably, if you start digging there, loads of viking stuff will turn up and delay the project for years.

Sarsfield

AFAIK, the proposed "High St" station, is actually more like Thomas St/James' St. I don't know what might be under the ground of historical interest, but most of that place needs knocking down anyway. The bits that haven't fallen down by themselves already, that is!

MarkoP11

The exact route is in the attachment, its well south of Christchurch and Wood Quay

gobdaw

Article in September 2005 edition of "Community Voice", a usually reliable free paper with close links to Dublin 15 Community Council :

"Maynooth rail line may end in Broadstone.

Representatives of Dublin 15 Community Council have expressed anger following a recent meeting with Irish Rail management regarding transport to the area.

While the Community Council welcomed the announcement by Irish Rail that they propose to commence four peak time new morning services and three new peak time evening services as part of a new timetable to be implemented in December, the local delegates were dismayed by some of the detail of these new services.

According to PRO, Charlie Kurtz, “we were informed that three of the morning services will terminate in Connolly station rather than at Pearse while two of the evening services will only run from Connolly. In addition these new services will only use four carriage trains rather than eight carriages.”

The Dublin 15 delegation were also upset to learn that following the allocation of €5m to Irish Rail in the last budget for the design of the new station at Spencer Dock, the company had now been requested to look instead at the possibility of sending the Maynooth services to Broadstone.

“Such a proposal would be disastrous for local commuters,” said Charlie Kurtz. “Not only would we be left in the middle of nowhere but we then have to find our way into the city centre on already crowded public transport with additional time and expense for the already hard pressed commuters of Dublin 15.”

According to Mr. Kurtz, “it now appears as if it is going to be years before we see any significant level of improvement in our services, and it will certainly be some considerable time before we see the much promised DART like service.” "

gobdaw

Sorry, amigos, wrong thread!!

Victor

MarkoP11 wrote:

The exact route is in the attachment, its well south of Christchurch and Wood Quay

Still within the historic core, but if you dig deep enough, you would disturb and historic sediment.

Also note that the hill at Christchuch is a big rock, which poses advantages and disadvantages.

strassenwolf

From Today's Indo:

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Luas loses €1.45m but is on track to break even by 2006


THE Luas is the red to the tune of €1.453m, the annual Rail Procurement Agency report reveals.

The deficit was recorded six months after the trams began to roll.

And more than €8m has been spent on developing an integrated ticketing system for public transport - even though it won't be up and running for commuters for at least two more years, and a further cost of €22m.

The Luas Tallaght and Sandyford lines in Dublin carried a total of 6.6m passengers during 2004, according to the annual report of the Rail Procurement Agency (RPA) published yesterday.

The RPA recorded a deficit of €1.453m on the system during the period, after paying rates and insurance charges.

It had projected that the the Luas system would break even by the end of 2006.

However the agency said yesterday it was very hopeful this would be achieved even earlier than this.

Luas was designed to allow a substantial proportion of its operating cost to be recovered from fares and the sale of advertising space.

According to the annual report the financial results were ahead of expectations. Paid passenger services began on the Sandyford line in July 2004 and on the Tallaght route the following October.

During 2004 some 4.4m trips took place on the Sandyford line and 2.2m on the Tallaght which was only running for three months last year.

The report says that so far this year passengers services on both lines have reached 98pc of target levels.

"It's a measure of the success to-date that both passenger numbers and revenue have met or exceeded expectations," says the report.

Treacy Hogan
Environment Correspondent
******************************************************

MarkoP11

strassenwolf wrote:

The report says that so far this year passengers services on both lines have reached 98pc of target levels.

"It's a measure of the success to-date that both passenger numbers and revenue have met or exceeded expectations," says the report.

So it hasn't met targets

Still waiting for the Heuston Connolly shuttle service

And for the record through the early to mid 1990's the DART for all its faults was running at a profit before the interest payments on the loan come into pay, the one thing the RPA are going to have to watch is maintence costs are going to start to climb with age

The real question is how much money did Connex make out of all this ?

strassenwolf

I've never been involved in arranging an integrated ticketing system for any city. But E30 million does look quite a lot of money. I hope this figure includes "implementation" as well as "development".

strassenwolf

This is from Today's Independent. More of the same, mostly, but with a new twist. 5 routes. (I hope they've ruled out Kildare Street-Exchequer Street which we had last time :eek:).

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New Luas bridge across river among plans to link tram lines

A NEW Luas bridge across the Liffey is proposed to link Dublin's first two lines in a €100m project, it was learned yesterday.

The aim is to end the madness of having the world's only tram system that is not connected.

The public is being given a chance to say which is the best of five routes linking up the Tallaght-O'Connell St-Connolly station and St Stephen's Green Luas lines across the city.

The Rail Procurement Agency (RPA) will next month publish five possible routes for the €100m link-up between O'Connell St and St Stephen's Green, it was learned.

One will run from the Green, down Dawson St, turn left onto Nassau St. It will then take a right turn down the front of TCD, and not down Suffolk St and Dame St as has been speculated.

It will then continue past TCD, Westmoreland St and onto O'Connell St where it will join up with the Tallaght to Connolly Station line.

Another option being published within weeks, is to build a special Luas bridge across the Liffey.

The line would run from the Green, down Dawson St, left into Nassau St and then down the front of TCD.

However, in this option instead of continuing down Westmoreland St, the Luas would head over to Hawkins St and across the Liffey near the Abbey Theatre. The Luas runs along Abbey St.

It is understood that another option is to have single or double lines between St Stephen's Green and O'Connell St. The single line option would involve a loop around the back of TCD via Westland Row.

Frank Allen, RPA chairman yesterday said the bridge crossing the Liffey was one of the five options which span a corridor running from Westland Row to Capel St.

The agency had no preferred route at the moment, he said.

However, he stressed that the cost of the project depended on the length of the route eventually selected. The public consultation process will take into account the impact of the five routes on traffic management, possible property acquisition and costs.

Meanwhile, Mr Allen said their proposed €260m extension of the Luas to Cherrywood in south Dublin is being held up some by developers not yet signing up to the public-private project.

Yesterday marked the first anniversary of the introduction of the Luas Tallaght line.

Treacy Hogan
Environment Correspondent

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Maskhadov

Is the rail bridge not just a big extra cost for nothing ? Personally I was in favour of the route which went around Trinity and used existing bridges.

D'Peoples Voice

strassenwolf wrote:

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Meanwhile, Mr Allen said their proposed €260m extension of the Luas to Cherrywood in south Dublin is being held up some by developers not yet signing up to the public-private project.

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Was all for this once, because I think Stepaside/Loughlinstown(Cherrywood) needs it!

However in recent times, I have found that it's extremely difficult to get standing room, yes thats right, standing room on any bloody luas between 8.05 and 8.45 at Miltown. If they add more stops to it, I can't help but think there will be more people fainting!
Of course, there is an argument that says that ALL the people who get on in Sandyford/Stillorgan have all driven from Cherrywood/Stepaside to the P+R, so the passenger numbers will be the same as before, and not any busier. I hope so otherwise, they may need more carriages/higher frequency.

Andrew Duffy

There is an RFT on the Government tenders list for more trams, presumably for the Cherrywood extension.

maxheadroom

Andrew Duffy wrote:

There is an RFT on the Government tenders list for more trams, presumably for the Cherrywood extension.

Surely they have to go for ALSTOM CITADIS trams again? Otherwise you'd have a crazy situation where some trams on the green line were of one type, some of another, and a new maintenance facility and staff would be needed.

Red Alert

That's not a major problem, what matters more is that the traction electrics (which drive the motors, and control auxiliary power supplies for things like lights and dorrs) are standardised.

Dublin Bus currently have five different classes of double deckers in use - not really a problem!

Maskhadov

but it will look stupid having trams that look completely different

Victor

Maskhadov wrote:

Is the rail bridge not just a big extra cost for nothing ? Personally I was in favour of the route which went around Trinity and used existing bridges.

Dublin City Council are contemplating a pedestrian bridge there anyway to relieve O'Connell Bridge.

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

Was all for this once, because I think Stepaside/Loughlinstown(Cherrywood) needs it! However in recent times, I have found that it's extremely difficult to get standing room, yes thats right, standing room on any bloody luas between 8.05 and 8.45 at Miltown. If they add more stops to it, I can't help but think there will be more people fainting!

So? More trams, more frequency, more transformer stations. Longer trams would however mean lengthening platforms and it might have some other issues.

maxheadroom wrote:

Surely they have to go for ALSTOM CITADIS trams again? Otherwise you'd have a crazy situation where some trams on the green line were of one type, some of another, and a new maintenance facility and staff would be needed.

They could move all the Citadis trams to the red line or vice-versa. However, I suspect the contract for the trams may have had specific requirements regarding compatibility for upgrades and fleet expansion.

Red Alert wrote:

Dublin Bus currently have five different classes of double deckers in use - not really a problem!

At the same time, substantial standardisation has positive reliability aspects.

murphaph

Victor wrote:

Dublin City Council are contemplating a pedestrian bridge there anyway to relieve O'Connell Bridge.

That's odd. The City Council wants to essentially pedestrianise Parnell Square all the way to St. Stephen's Green. They've published plans and all

strassenwolf

This is from today's Sunday Business Post. (looks like Martin Cullen spent his summer doing a "speed reading" course )

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Rail agency to finalise Luas link plan this week

02 October 2005 By Neil Callanan

The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) expects to finalise plans this week to extend the Luas rail system to Cherrywood in south Dublin.

The RPA is expected to submit a railway order for the extension to the Department of Transport later this week. The order had been held up because a construction company had delayed the proposed extension of the Luas green line, which currently terminates in Sandyford.

A spokesman for the RPA said the standoff had been resolved, and that it hoped to finalise plans early this week.

Minister for Transport, Martin Cullen, has said that he would approve the public inquiry into a Cherrywood extension “within seconds'‘ of it being placed in front of him.

The RPA has already prepared an environmental impact statement and maps on the scheme. It has also started consultations with some residents' groups about the plan.

Half of the cost of the 7 km extension will be met by the state, with the remainder coming from Rathdown Light Rail, a consortium of property developers who own land along the route.

They include Liam Carroll's Dunloe Ewart, Carrickmines Properties, Park Developments, Treasury Holdings and William Neville and Sons.

Carroll in particular will benefit from the Cherrywood extension, because his plans to develop a new town centre at Cherrywood depend largely on improved public transport links. Cullen said last week that he was in favour of a second extension to the Luas green line, which would link it to the red line on the north side of the city. The red line connects Tallaght to Connolly Station. Plans are also being drawn up to expand that line from Connolly Station to Spencer Dock.

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philologos

murphaph wrote:

Blanch has a proper railway. Under the Dublin Rail Plan a massive increase in frequency would materialise. Even without the DRP, the new station at Spencer Dock will allow a very frequent service on this line.

what about Lucan then

murphaph

Jakkass wrote:

what about Lucan then

Under the DRP Lucan would be partially served in two ways. 'Lucan North' used to have a station. It was located on the raliway line to Maynooth. It is approximately 2km north of Lucan village on the road to Clonee, just before the Royal Canal. This station is not included in the actual DRP but theoretically could easily reopen.

Lucan south will be served by Adamstown Station which lies approximately 2km south of Lucan village. It is planned and I believe under construction right now. It lies just West of the humpback bridge over the railway on the Newcastle Road.

The village of Lucan and points in between could be served by shuttle buses running from Adamstown Station, via Lucan Village to Lucan North Station, thus providing not only a service to Lucan residents but also to potential travellers who wish to travel between the two lines but need not travel all the way in to Pearse Station to change trains. It is actually a short distance between the Sligo and Cork railway lines at Lucan, and I believ it was proposed to link them there a number of years ago.

A Luas is proposed for Lucan, however I believe in the medium term (assuming the DRP is funded) the bus/DART solution outlined above is a winner. There is ample room on many of Lucan's arterial routes to widen them and add dedicated bus lanes, feeding in to the two railway stations mentioned above.

BrianD

I believe the old Lucan "North" station is actually a private residence ar present.

I think Lucan is to far out for a tram line. Opening one or more stations with local bus services would be the best solution.

murphaph

BrianD wrote:

I believe the old Lucan "North" station is actually a private residence ar present.

Indeed it is Brian, nothing that can't be fixed with a little CPO'in of course. Potentially the station could just be built to the west of the overbridge, there's nothing there other than fields.

BrianD wrote:

I think Lucan is to far out for a tram line. Opening one or more stations with local bus services would be the best solution.

Certainly in the context of the full DRP it would. The Luas can serve areas of similar density that are nowhere near a rail line. There's a finite pot o' cash to build with. Luas to Lucan perhaps, but not for some time and certainly not before the DRP which so many things will hang off.

strassenwolf

I was looking through this thread and I came across this

Sunday Business Post - 31 July 2005 wrote:

By Niamh Connolly
Six possible routes linking Dublin's two Luas lines will be released to the public for consideration in September, according to the Rail Procurement Agency (RPA), the state body responsible for the city's tram system.

It's October now. So what happened?

dazberry

strassenwolf wrote:

It's October now. So what happened?

About 2 weeks ago there was a guy from the RPA on the Luas travelling to work. Beyond him wearing his RPA id around his neck (bit of a giveaway that), he was reading thru' a small A4 booklet which listed the 6 routes, each with a map, length and textual description, A to F if I remember correctly. Although it looked like a finished document (not a proof or draft) it did appear that the guy was making corrections to it.

D.

Winters

I have to admit that I have thought very long and hard about this subject and come to the conclusion that in the midst of all the metro plans being brandied about a route should be chosen that is sustainable and can be incorporated into the future network.

The best way of linking the Green line to the Red Line is to go from Peter Place down onto Adelaide Road and for every 2nd tram to continue on to St. Stephen's Green down Harcourt Street as usual while the other tram continues straight along Harcourt Road - Harrington Street - South Circular and turns into Clanbrassil Street Lower to head north to Patrick Street to meet High Street (Connection with DART) and crosses the Liffey to meet the red line behind the four courts.

This route utilises both the Lucan to Docklands and the Sillogue to Dundrum alignments as outlined in PFC.

In creates a larger 'Figure of 8' for Dublin than the DCC Gleeson one and opens up new areas of Dublin.

It does not become superfluous in the case of either the metro or the Interconnector being built.

The stops would be located as indicated in the PFC.

When the above lines are built they will simple join up with the track that is in place.

Dont forget that a headway of 3 minutes could be achieved on the Green line without any added infrastructure (RPA quoted). That would mean 10 trams per hour (Every 6mins) to Connolly (Or Further towards Broadstone/Phibsborough/Sillogue) and 10 trams per hour to the green.

See map for details:

http://www.geocities.com/bishlit/mapll_masterpp12.jpg

The stops would be as follows:

Harcourt

Kelly's Corner

Clanbrassil

Warrenmount

New Street

Patrick Street

Cornmarket

Fourcourts

See http://www.dto.ie/fig7.pdf for more details regarding the PFC planned network.

(My post as above taken from P11 boards

http://platform11.hyperboards3.com/index.cgi?action=display&cat=welcome&board=NIR&thread=1109203826)

Victor wrote:

Got anymore like that mister?
That map is diagrammatic only. There was an assumption for some link.

He got that from me Victor, looking for more?

- Mark