North & South

murphaph

Bobby Storey wrote:

Well,well, well, what have we here? Could it possibly be people from the South of Ireland showing their crass ignorance of events in the North? Of course it must be as we have MT spewing forth his bile, bigotry and hatred of Northerners while accusing us of, well bigotry and hatred, hypocrisy me thinks. Then we have this other moron Rsynnott telling us that all victims of British/Unionist death squads were not completely innocent, wow such insight. Maybe you should tell this to the families of the 33 people the British Army slaughtered in the Dublin/Monaghan bombings in the 70's? Of course you don't want us unless its summertime and we are arriving laden with cash, then there is a great big Cead Mile failte, isn't there? Just ask anyone in Donegal, our cash employs most of the county. I'm just wondering if the shoe should not be on the other foot, I mean after all didn't Jack Lynch and that cowardly organisation called laughably the Irish Army, leave catholics to be slaughtered a lá Bosnian style massacres in 1969?

MT is from the north so he's speaking from his own experiences I should imagine. Anyway, you accuse southerners of crass ignorance of Northern Ireland's affairs-and you're right in part 'cos most people down here couldn't give a monkeys about Northern Ireland and it's internal affairs, just like most northerners couldn't give a monkey's about the internal affairs of Ireland, which is fair enough. By the way-We help your country's economy by shoppng in Newry too, so there

murphaph

79cortinaz wrote:

I hope the PSNI/RUC disband and a proper police force appears

....like our dear beloved An Garda Siochana who've recently been found to have framed a man for murder? There's bad eggs everywhere pal.

The fact is the PSNI is perhaps the most accountable and heavily scrutinised police force on these islands. We don't even have an ombudsman down here. If the PSNI fart crooked Nuala O'Loan is on to them.

Bobby Storey

murphaph wrote:

....
The fact is the PSNI is perhaps the most accountable and heavily scrutinised police force on these islands. We don't even have an ombudsman down here. If the PSNI fart crooked Nuala O'Loan is on to them.

Nonsense, the RUC/PSNI effectively block any meaningful investigation. Nuala O Loans department is toothless and may aswell not exist. As an irishman what do you mean by your country?

murphaph

Bobby Storey wrote:

As an irishman what do you mean by your country?

You said northerners boost the economy of Ireland by spending money in Donegal. I say that southerners help the economy of Northern Ireland by spending money there, thus helping your economy, it's a two way street of trade between the two states.

Bobby Storey

murphaph wrote:

You said northerners boost the economy of Ireland by spending money in Donegal. I say that southerners help the economy of Northern Ireland by spending money there, thus helping your economy, it's a two way street of trade between the two states.

Wrong again, according to the Irish government there is 1 state. Try reading your passport.

Bobby Storey

Bobby Storey wrote:

Nonsense, the RUC/PSNI effectively block any meaningful investigation. Nuala O Loans department is toothless and may aswell not exist. As an irishman what do you mean by your country?

You may be new here
So I will let you in on a trick of the trade as regards posting on the politics board-in fact it's a prerequisite.
It's a good idea to back up your statements with some facts.
Otherwise they can only be your opinion and as such may look naive when someone posts facts to the contrary.

Now as far as I'm aware Nuala O' Loan has the authority with her officials to march into any PSNI office unannounced and walk out with any file they so desire and to interview any officer.A simple read of their many extensive investigations available on their website doesn't indicate that they are toothless.

Macmorris

murphaph wrote:

most people down here couldn't give a monkeys about Northern Ireland and it's internal affairs, just like most northerners couldn't give a monkey's about the internal affairs of Ireland

Don't you mean the internal affairs of the 'Republic of Ireland'?

murphaph

Macmorris wrote:

Don't you mean the internal affairs of the 'Republic of Ireland'?

No. The official name of my country is 'Eire' or in english, 'Ireland'. See here if you don't believe me.

murphaph

Bobby Storey wrote:

Wrong again, according to the Irish government there is 1 state. Try reading your passport.

So now you're trying to tell me that there is 1 state on the island of Ireland? My passport says nothing about it by the way but under the Ireland Act, 1921 there are two sovereign states on he island of Ireland. They are Ireland and the United Kingdom. A quick look at a geopolitical atlas will reveal all

Macmorris

murphaph wrote:

No. The official name of my country is 'Eire' or in english, 'Ireland'.

I think that's only because under the old articles 2 and 3 of the constitution the national territory was defined as the entire island of Ireland.

murphaph

Macmorris wrote:

I think that's only because under the old articles 2 and 3 of the constitution the national territory was defined as the entire island of Ireland.

The country I'm from is called 'Ireland'. That's it's official name. The term Republic of Ireland is just a description.

Macmorris

murphaph wrote:

The country I'm from is called 'Ireland'. That's it's official name.

If it's the official name then we're going to have to change it. How can you have a state called 'Ireland' and a bordering state called 'Northern Ireland'? Ireland is the name of the island of Ireland. Everything that has been traditionally denoted by the term has related to the island as a whole. If we want to live with the reality of partition, we're going to accept that the state we live in is just one part of Ireland.

murphaph

Macmorris wrote:

If it's the official name then we're going to have to change it. How can you have a state called 'Ireland' and a bordering state called 'Northern Ireland'? Ireland is the name of the island of Ireland. Everything that has been traditionally denoted by the term has related to the island as a whole. If we want to live with the reality of partition, we're going to accept that the state we live in is just one part of Ireland.

Well, the 26 counties are called Ireland and the 6 are called Northern Ireland which is fine because NI isn't a country in it's own right-it's just another part of the United Kingdom. What's the problem?

When you go abroad and people ask where your from, do you say "Ireland" or the "Republic of Ireland"?

Bobby Storey

murphaph wrote:

So now you're trying to tell me that there is 1 state on the island of Ireland? My passport says nothing about it by the way but under the Ireland Act, 1921 there are two sovereign states on he island of Ireland. They are Ireland and the United Kingdom. A quick look at a geopolitical atlas will reveal all

Are you ever right? Funny thing about my passport, has a gold harp and in gold lettering Éire/ Ireland on the front.Inside it states Náisiúntacht/Nationality, on mine it states Erieannach/Irish. It further states Áit Bhreithe/ Place of Birth, Aontrim/Antrim so I guess the Department of Foreign Affairs reckon there is only 1 state in Ireland!

Bobby Storey

Earthman wrote:

You may be new here
So I will let you in on a trick of the trade as regards posting on the politics board-in fact it's a prerequisite.
It's a good idea to back up your statements with some facts.You mean like the poster IAWS, facts that were completely wrong?
Otherwise they can only be your opinion and as such may look naive when someone posts facts to the contrary.

Now as far as I'm aware(that would be you opinion would it? Rather naive, don't you think) Nuala O' Loan has the authority with her officials to march into any PSNI office unannounced and walk out with any file they so desire and to interview any officer.A simple read of their many extensive investigations available on their website doesn't indicate that they are toothless.

So living with the practicality of watching this toothless organisation why have so few complaints been upheld?

Bobby Storey

county wrote:

is that fact.i dont think so!

If you are referring to the North of Ireland then the standard of living is higher than the South. Due mainly to the currency exchange rate, but actual standards are similar.

mycroft

Bobby Storey wrote:

So living with the practicality of watching this toothless organisation why have so few complaints been upheld?

Ah bless never let facts in the way of a good rant.

1. O'Luan's dept forced a change in the rules of engagement for live ammo by the PSNI

2. The mix of protestant to catholic complaints ruins along the population split in NI (meaning the level of complaints means that both sides of the community are using her dept's services to degree to suggest that it's respected by both communities)

3. Her investigation into Omagh forced the resignation of the police commisioner, and helped the families build their civil case,

4. Her body was the most respected that even the police hating SF urged the commuity to report to her after the mc cartney murder (finally)

Oh yeah she's toothless..... :rolleyes:

oscarBravo

Macmorris wrote:

If it's the official name then we're going to have to change it.

We are? Somehow I suspect that the bulk of my compatriots share the view that no, we are not.

Macmorris wrote:

How can you have a state called 'Ireland' and a bordering state called 'Northern Ireland'? Ireland is the name of the island of Ireland.

How can you have a state called 'Virginia' and a bordering state called 'West Virginia'?

Macmorris wrote:

Everything that has been traditionally denoted by the term has related to the island as a whole. If we want to live with the reality of partition, we're going to accept that the state we live in is just one part of Ireland.

Dunno about you, but the state I have lived in all my life is called "Ireland". It's not that great a conceptual leap to comprehend that you can have a geographical land mass called "Ireland" and a political state called "Ireland" and that the two do not necessarily refer to the same thing.

Tell me: does it raise your blood pressure that citizens of the United States of America often refer to their country as "America" without including South America, Central America or even a goodly chunk of North America?

murphaph

Bobby Storey wrote:

Are you ever right? Funny thing about my passport, has a gold harp and in gold lettering Éire/ Ireland on the front.Inside it states Náisiúntacht/Nationality, on mine it states Erieannach[sic]/Irish. It further states Áit Bhreithe/ Place of Birth, Aontrim/Antrim so I guess the Department of Foreign Affairs reckon there is only 1 state in Ireland!

That is perhaps the poorest retort I have ever read here on Boards (and that's saying something). I have a friend who's passport looks just like yours and mine but says;"Áit Bhreithe/ Place of Birth, Bucharest, Romania". Do we 'own' Romania now too? (they still have oil, right?)

79cortinaz

county wrote:

is that fact.i dont think so!

It is a fact that the level of pay is higher down here even considering the difference in the euro, sterling and cost of living.

....like our dear beloved An Garda Siochana who've recently been found to have framed a man for murder? There's bad eggs everywhere pal.

well, 'pal', theres no way in the world I'd compare the RUC with the gards. If theres bad eggs everywhere, most of them are in the PSNI. Ive never been stopped and verbally and physically abused here by An Garda Siochana compared to the ****e I used to get at home every other day from the RUC. Plus An Garda Siochana at least represents the community its policing, unlike the PSNI

79cortinaz

Earthman wrote:

You may be new here
So I will let you in on a trick of the trade as regards posting on the politics board-in fact it's a prerequisite.
It's a good idea to back up your statements with some facts.
Otherwise they can only be your opinion and as such may look naive when someone posts facts to the contrary.

Now as far as I'm aware Nuala O' Loan has the authority with her officials to march into any PSNI office unannounced and walk out with any file they so desire and to interview any officer.A simple read of their many extensive investigations available on their website doesn't indicate that they are toothless.

a better trick of the trade is to do some research . look up the ombudsman report on the omagh bomb and you'll see how Nuala O' Loans authority can be waved aside.

79cortinaz

79cortinaz wrote:

a better trick of the trade is to do some research . look up the ombudsman report on the omagh bomb and you'll see how Nuala O' Loans authority can be waved aside.

Yerrah not at all.
Toothless was the accusation and it's not true.
If Joe soap has a complaint against the police,O'loan and her officials have practically carte blance to investigate it and publish their findings.
Thats not toothless.

As regards Omagh-there have been arrests and charges since her report probably due in part to the authorities having to spur themselves on with the embarassment of it.

79cortinaz

i'd have to disagree about omagh. as many people have been released again as arrested nearly, plus theres a lot of confusing info about the RUC, Real IRA and the Gards that was raised by oloan and disputed and henceforth forgotton about by the psni. the ruc took her to court dont forget - that shows exactly how much power she has when it matters - not much

MrPudding

79cortinaz wrote:

It is a fact that the level of pay is higher down here even considering the difference in the euro, sterling and cost of living.

For me standard of living is based not just on how much I get paid but how much I have to pay. When you look at how much we have to pay down here for:

• Rent
• Mortgage (if you are lucky enough to be able to get one)
• Childcare
• Medical bills. This included paying for kids to see doctors, dentists and get drugs, cost which do not exist in the north.
• Cost of entertainment
• Costs in general.

When this is taken into consideration the standard of living in the North is better. Where it does fall behind, for me, is the number of quality IT jobs up there. The rate of pay are comparable, there just isn't the quantity (also they mostly look for degrees which I do not have:mad: )

79cortinaz wrote:

well, 'pal', theres no way in the world I'd compare the RUC with the gards. If theres bad eggs everywhere, most of them are in the PSNI. Ive never been stopped and verbally and physically abused here by An Garda Siochana compared to the ****e I used to get at home every other day from the RUC. Plus An Garda Siochana at least represents the community its policing, unlike the PSNI

Interesting. I libed in NI for the first 28 years fo my life. I never once got any trouble from the RUC. Not once. Ever.

To say they are all bad is a gross generalisation. If you were getting trouble from them everyday do you think there may have been something in your behaviour that caused this? I am not normally one to blame the victim or the alleged victim but I see a pattern here.

There are a number of posters here that have not been harrassed by the RUC or PSNI. They seem to be quite moderate in their views.

Then we have other posters. They, like yourself, are rabidly anti RUC/PSNI and they allege that they are harrassed by said force. I see a pattern. I am sure you and the others will claim that they only became such haters after the abuse you have apparently received but you have to wonder, were you broughtup to hate them? Did you ever try to be civil to them?
MrP

79cortinaz

so its my fault i would be randomly harrassed by the RUC? thats basically what you are saying, and i must say, thats a bit ignorant of you. you obviously lived in a nice area. also, i dont thinki ever opened my mouth to an RUC officer, especially whilst being harrassed, so ther was nothing " in [my] behaviour that caused this".

It was caused because I was a Catholic and nothing else. I was completely apolitical at the time, so even my politics wouldnt have been the cause. it was just purre basic harrassment.

Count yourself lucky you werent harrassed for being a nationalist and dont try to ridicule those that have been. the only pattern I see is one of 'Im all right jack, never happened to me' which is fair enough, but dont be brushing me with that you seem to have others painted with thank you very much.

79cortinaz

79cortinaz wrote:

i'd have to disagree about omagh.

Is there or isn't there someone charged with the Omagh bombing?

the ruc took her to court dont forget

Yes and the report stood despite Flanagans whinge-ing about wanting more time to rebutt it.

Fact of the matter remains that the investigation/legal process is ongoing there with an accused before the court system.
Thats something that happened after O' Loans report and probably was spurred on or speeded up arising out of the embarassment from it.

79cortinaz

MrPudding wrote:

For me standard of living is based not just on how much I get paid but how much I have to pay. When you look at how much we have to pay down here for:

• Rent
• Mortgage (if you are lucky enough to be able to get one)
• Childcare
• Medical bills. This included paying for kids to see doctors, dentists and get drugs, cost which do not exist in the north.
• Cost of entertainment
• Costs in general.

When this is taken into consideration the standard of living in the North is better. Where it does fall behind, for me, is the number of quality IT jobs up there. The rate of pay are comparable, there just isn't the quantity (also they mostly look for degrees which I do not have:mad: )

wow - I must tell my sister that then. shes moving down here as she'll actually be better off. I must tell her to stay where she is as obviously you get better value for money in the north. Its funny she hasnt found that to be true.

79cortinaz

wasnt he released? Maybe im thinking of one of th emany others who were arrested for th eomagh bombing .. i could be wrong

79cortinaz

Earthman wrote:

and the report stood despite Flanagans whinge-ing about wanting more time to rebutt it.

Fact of the matter remains that the investigation/legal process is ongoing there with an accused before the court system.
Thats something that happened after O' Loans report and probably was spurred on or speeded up arising out of the embarassment from it.

very true - but it took a lot of arsing about though

oscarBravo

79cortinaz wrote:

...i dont thinki ever opened my mouth to an RUC officer, especially whilst being harrassed, so ther was nothing " in [my] behaviour that caused this"... It was caused because I was a Catholic and nothing else.

Do you look Catholic, or something?