US Box Office in slump

BlitzKrieg

so those not following movie news the US box office has been in a 18 week slump.


mud is being slinged in all directions

on remakes http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161468,00.html (sorry to link to fox shudder)

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=box+office+slump&meta=

on piracy

on dvds



and so on.


But the reality could be much worse...could it be that the blockbuster is in decline?


recently i watched Easy Riders Raging Bulls. A great documantery on film during the 60s and 70s which ended with the birth of the blockbuster through star wars.

And it got me thinking. More then any other generation of film goers do the audiance of today know more about how films work. Now i dont mean they are all geniuses in editing and cinemtography, but i do mean they are not easily sucked in by just pretty explosions and prettier stars. Hollywood has been getting around this more and more by making bigger explosions and prettier stars and i think it could be that we have reached the peak that this blockbuster route can take the world. And maybe just maybe...those studio doors could swing open (or be broken down) by auteurs and nutjobs and perfectionists and filmmakers once more.

looking over the last 8 or so years, the hits that have stuck and spawned clones have been the ones to go new routes. From the Matrix to The Lord of the Rings to the Japanese horror remakes. each of these routes have now been overcongested (only matter of time with LOTR clones) and the fact that the matrix seqeuls went with bigger explosions and didnt get as well accepted as the original show that there is a need for the blockbuster system to step down and let a new hollywood rise (or hollywood die alltogether).*edit* could it be time for our blockbusters to have more substance as well as thrill? *edit*

now this is all mishmash talk.

the reason for the slump could be for many other reasons.

the decline of the cinema as the place for film (though dreamworks has admitted dvd sales are down too)

the rise of video games providing both gameplay and narrative to equel film (MGS 3)

i wont bother with television cause i personnally cant stand it.

It could just be the films this year are simply all very poorly made.


lets discuss the slump...and does anyone know how the european/irish/british box office is doing? Is any box office not slumping?

ixoy

It's just entered the 19th weekend slump. The thing is the slump is a bit mis-leading. 'War of the Worlds' clocked in over $100m - a lovely achievement. It still marked a "slump" because it had to compete with last year's record-breaking 'Spiderman 2' which opened on the same weekend. There's not really the same sort of instant guaranteed success this year bar perhaps Harry Potter: Episode IV - A New Box Office Hope.

As to why people are turning away from the cinema... interesting question. It's quite expensive in the US and the prices only keep rising so I thought people were moving to the DVD medium. Now their sales aren't down - I think it's merely the rate of sales increase that is down, which is vastly different.

But let's assume that's not accounting for the drop: I do think it's apathy. As you say Blitz, we've all seen the explosions and cheap romances epitomised by the likes of 'Mr. and Mrs. Smith'. They're not necessarily bad movies per se, but they offer nothing new. It's why the Asian-influenced horrors did well for a bit because they were a bit of fresh air.

How can Hollywood combat it? Difficult to say. Video games offer a near cinematic experience often and it's at your own pace with you interacting. Movie theatres can be atmospheric but equally distracting with thoughtless people chattering and answering mobile phones. Home comforts say much.

The problem is with movies costing so much, studios aren't willing to take a risk - look at all the studios who turned down 'Lord of the Rings'. So they go for formulaic ones that might break even. The safe bet. Hopefully mild successes like 'Sin City', that can be produced cheapily (relatively) and do well with critics and audiences alike will inspire them to give us something a bit more different. I do however not place much store in this hope but would love to be proved wrong..

Karl Hungus

You know, as much as I'd like to put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the pointless remakes, and the dull crap that's being pumped out by and large in Hollywood, I simply can't, because while that's certainly a factor, it's not the cause.

As a huge film fan, I always loved going to the cinema. Just a few years ago, I would go sometimes once or even twice a week, and you know what? I loved it! But in recent years the cinema has been an increasingly unpleasant experience, not least because of the advent of mobile phones. The last film I went to see, I had the pleasure of some ****ing dingbat who kept setting of their crazy frog ringtone at regular intervals. Nothing worse than watching a movie when "A-ding-ding-ding-ding..." and the cinema staff throw two fingers to you when you complain. The cinema of today is a glorified creche.

Mitch Connor

My opinion is that the cinema industry needs to look at itself as much as anywhere else, there is so much potential in the industry that has not been exploited. I think Digital Cinema is going to change this somewhat but i don't think it will go far enough. I think Cinemas should start looking at other ways of getting the punters in, create an alround family experience, show football matches on the big screen, have internet cafes, bars, restaurants attached, an affiliated and attached movie related toy shop would make a mint too (imo). People get bored easily, the cinema needs to become something more.

sprinkles

Karl Hungus wrote:

You know, as much as I'd like to put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the pointless remakes, and the dull crap that's being pumped out by and large in Hollywood, I simply can't, because while that's certainly a factor, it's not the cause.

As a huge film fan, I always loved going to the cinema. Just a few years ago, I would go sometimes once or even twice a week, and you know what? I loved it! But in recent years the cinema has been an increasingly unpleasant experience, not least because of the advent of mobile phones. The last film I went to see, I had the pleasure of some ****ing dingbat who kept setting of their crazy frog ringtone at regular intervals. Nothing worse than watching a movie when "A-ding-ding-ding-ding..." and the cinema staff throw two fingers to you when you complain. The cinema of today is a glorified creche.

I'd have to agree with your take on todays cimena experience but I don't think the addition of the crazy frog to the soundtrack is leading to the slow dimise of cimena. I think the blame must rest ont he shoulders of the hollywood tycoons. Where is the inovation> Anything interesting that has come out recently has been from independant or small film companies, willing to take a risk because they have nothing much to loose. The larger film compaines seem set on churning out the same formulaic rubbish that got us going to the cinema in the first place. Just look at the amount of comic book films coming out.... based purely ont he sucess of Spiderman and Xmen. The only interesting take on it was this years Sin City (which was brilliant imo) but its a gem in an increasingly large pile of carp.

Hollywood needs to take a step back and actually look at what people want. The scripts in some of the movies I have seen recently including star wars (although Georgy boy was never reknowned for his scripting ability) have been poor to downright dire. I like the odd explosion and fight scene but in between it would be nice to have good acting coupled with an interesting script. The cliched lines are very quickly becoming a bore. Sin City (sorry to harp on about it but it was quite good) has shown the direction hollywood can take. There are countless options open to directors and studios. They just need to take the chance.

sprinkles

Tauren wrote:

My opinion is that the cinema industry needs to look at itself as much as anywhere else, there is so much potential in the industry that has not been exploited. I think Digital Cinema is going to change this somewhat but i don't think it will go far enough. I think Cinemas should start looking at other ways of getting the punters in, create an alround family experience, show football matches on the big screen, have internet cafes, bars, restaurants attached, an affiliated and attached movie related toy shop would make a mint too (imo). People get bored easily, the cinema needs to become something more.

I think the addition of the bar to the UGC in town has greatly helped it. ITs nice to have a place to go while you wait on your film to start. Get a pint or a cup of coffee or food. Its a different idea but its paying off.

Peteee

Heres my theory to the 'slump'

sequels

Last year 5 of the top 10 films were sequels (Spiderman 2 and shrek 2 being the most obvious examples)

This year (up till now) in the top 10 we have 2 sequels in the top 10 (And these are sequels in the loosed sense of a word, because one is episode 3 as a contiuation of a trilogy, and another is batman begins, which is a prequel, and takes a vastly different direction to the previous effort)

Therefore, there's no 'guaranteed' film that people are absolutly going to go to.

People were ALWAYS going to flock to Spiderman 2 and Shrek 2, whereas the most you can say about War of the Worlds or Batman Begins is that people 'should' flock to them (Them both being well marketed blockbusters)

Granted with those two examples, they are doing well enough (expecially WOTW with 100 million this weekend) but take Kingdom of Heaven for example.

Famous director, Famous lead, lots of marketing, average reviews, but no-one went to see it? Why, havnt a clue??

Another reason I think is that its too bloody expensive! Of course the mvoie studios/cinemas will increase the price of tickets to counter the 'slump' thus possibly making things worse.

jor el

Karl Hungus wrote:

<snip, and sums it all up with> The cinema of today is a glorified creche.

True. I used to go to the cinema maybe once or twice a week from when I was about 14 up until about three years ago. In college there were times when we'd go four or five times a week. Anyway, the last few times I went the cinema was just full of skangers shouting and bitching or talking on mobiles. When you couple that with the fact that the film really isn't that great anyway it doesn't make for a very enjoyable night out.

Add crap re-makes, so-so sequels and just utter shite into the mix and it all adds up to less cinema goers. Piracy probably accounts for a bit but cheap DVDs from play.com or dvdsoon together with home cinemas is likely to be a bigger culprit though.

The last movies I enjoyed at the cinema were Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Snatch, Sixth Sense and Hannibal (not a terribly great film but I did enjoy it). The last movie I actually saw at the cinema was Spiderman 2 last Summer. I didn't really think much of it and the cinema was full of nattering children (probably shouldn't have gone on a Sunday afternoon :rolleyes: )

mycroft

Karl Hungus wrote:

As a huge film fan, I always loved going to the cinema. Just a few years ago, I would go sometimes once or even twice a week, and you know what? I loved it! But in recent years the cinema has been an increasingly unpleasant experience, not least because of the advent of mobile phones. The last film I went to see, I had the pleasure of some ****ing dingbat who kept setting of their crazy frog ringtone at regular intervals. Nothing worse than watching a movie when "A-ding-ding-ding-ding..." and the cinema staff throw two fingers to you when you complain. The cinema of today is a glorified creche.

Not to mention the home cinema, the fall in price for a surround sound system and digital projector means that a home cinema isn't in the realms of the rich.

You'll notice the slum in cinema attendance isn't coming alongside studio profit warnings.

This isn't a similar situation to hollywood pre easy riders, where the studio system was on the verge of collaspe after the epics of the day died in the box office. However the situation is similar part of the success of the new younger generation in their day was the improvement in cheaper 16mm stock and lighter cheaper cameras, which echos the rise of digital filmaking, I'm not saying we're going to have a rise of successful low budget studio films, but combine the above with the rolling out of digital projectors in cinemas, it means the studios are going to once again come up aganist home produced word of mouth pot boilers.

Interesting times etc....

RuggieBear

Karl Hungus wrote:

The cinema of today is a glorified creche.

Myself and the girlie went to see sin city at 10.15am the other day....absolute heaven. Only 2 others in the cinema and absolute silence. We both came out thinking that that was defo the way to watch movies.

Then we went and spoiled it all by doing something stupid....watching War of the Worlds in the afternoon.....noise, children with weak bladders crying, mobile phones, teenagers acting hard by talking and taking the piss, people running (thumping) up and down the ailses (It's not as if it was a long ****ing film). Just a thouragly unpleasant experience.

Think we'll try and stick to 18 rated movies just to avoid the immature riff raff. Wonder when the next one will be out...2-3 months??

Vokes

All these news stories are about the US box office, yes?
I don't think we'll see the death of blockbusters just yet, not while the likes of Alexander, Kingdom of Heaven keep making their money back in markets outside of the US.

Another reason for the slump could be that the turnaround time of blockbusters on dvds are getting shorter and shorter. xXx2 is coming out on dvd only 88 days after it was released in the cinemas. Article here. Why pay upward €30 for 2ppl in the cinema ,when you could wait less than 3 months and buy the dvd for €20, and watch it in the comfort of your own home.

pickarooney

Anyone got figures for DVD rentals? If those were up it might explain some of the drop-off in cinema tickets and DVD sales, i.e. it's just become too expensive.
I haven't been to the cinema in over a year (and that was to see the dreadful King Arthur), whereas I used to go once a week or so.

My own reasons are:

- the price has more than doubled (while my salary has gone down about 30%)
- there are very few really good films out
- I've nobody to go with
- I can download (boo, hiss, shame etc.) any film I want and watch it in the comfort of my own home, free of scangers, mobile phones and small children, and can pause, rewind, fast-forward all I want
- I don't have to queue for an hour

ixoy

It's interesting alright that most of the worried noises are not coming from the producers but from the cinema owners. It adds credence to the idea that the studios are still getting their profits from the other mediums - DVDs and TV rights primarily.

DVDs sales haven't slumped - they're actually still increasing. It's just that the rate of increase has dropped to around 9% rather than last year's 14% (double digit growth would eventually have to stop).

pickarooney

Are VHS sales so low now as to be non-existent? There had to be a period during which people stopped buying VHS and switched over to DVD, at the end of which the rate of increase of DVD sales would taper off.

sprinkles

SofaKing wrote:

All these news stories are about the US box office, yes?
I don't think we'll see the death of blockbusters just yet, not while the likes of Alexander, Kingdom of Heaven keep making their money back in markets outside of the US.

Another reason for the slump could be that the turnaround time of blockbusters on dvds are getting shorter and shorter. xXx2 is coming out on dvd only 88 days after it was released in the cinemas. Article here. Why pay upward €30 for 2ppl in the cinema ,when you could wait less than 3 months and buy the dvd for €20, and watch it in the comfort of your own home.

They are actually selling the dvd's the day the films are released in Aisa to thwart piracy. It makes sense but it would stop cinema goers. Although if a film came out that I really wanted to see I'd def pick the cinema over the dvd anyday, there's no comparison seeing a film on the big screen.

BlitzKrieg

well Fantastic Four just got great free publicity...It *broke* the slump...though i must admit a film as bad as FF doesnt deserve it.

ixoy

Interestingly enough, despite the "slump", most of the major studios aren't worried. One of the reasons is that two of the movies that did well last year - 'Fahrenheit 9/11' and 'The Passion' were not released by major studios and so they never shared in these profits.

Still, estimates put the number of seats sold down by approx. 9%. There's a few decent hits - WotW will do well enough for itself and helped the Box Office this week - but nothing spectacular in the pipeline. As much as they moan, they can't have a 'Spiderman 2' every year.

Be interesting to see what Burton's take on 'Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory' pulls in this coming weekend.

garred

Personally I think more people are turning to piracy dvd's, they are more common now than before. The cinema experience is not there anymore, as was previously stated, cause of muppets and also pricing (9 quid to catch a flick sat afternoon). With mp3 downloads so high and so many P2P progs out there its not a big crossover to piracy in films.

With regard to remakes, well in fairness its hard to think of an original idea as more or less everything has been done. Its like the music chart, there are more and more cover versions coming in there than years ago.

Also people are not getting the credit they deserve, they are staying out of cinemas cause there is a lot of crap being produced aswell. Hollywood seems to think that big names will sell a movie no matter how bad it is but those days are gone....thanks be to god.

Basq

RuggieBear wrote:

Then we went and spoiled it all by doing something stupid....watching War of the Worlds in the afternoon.....noise, children with weak bladders crying, mobile phones, teenagers acting hard by talking and taking the piss, people running (thumping) up and down the ailses (It's not as if it was a long ****ing film). Just a thouragly unpleasant experience.

Agree with you there Ruggie!

Don't go to the cinema as often as i used to.... but whenever i go now, i always catch the late shows (11.15 - 11.45pm) on a Friday / Saturday night. Went to both WOTW and Batman Begins in late shows over the late couple of weeks and very little or no disruptions between it!

The only problem is i'm typically wrecked after the late shows (seeing as it's close to 2am when it's over and i've been up since 8am that morning and worked a 8 hour day!). And i did find myself drifting off towards the end of WOTW.. though i'm not too sure if that was tiredness .. or boredom!

ObeyGiant

garred wrote:

Personally I think more people are turning to piracy dvd's, they are more common now than before. The cinema experience is not there anymore, as was previously stated, cause of muppets and also pricing (9 quid to catch a flick sat afternoon). With mp3 downloads so high and so many P2P progs out there its not a big crossover to piracy in films.

The 'piracy' excuse is fundamentally flawed. There's an article in this month's Hotdog magazine regarding Soderbergh's decision to release movies on all formats at the same time, and they quote the situation in Russia - 99% of DVDs are pirated, usually available months before the cinema release over there, but still cinema numbers are on the rise.

Also - can someone confirm this, but I remember reading that although the US box office is in a slump, the UK box office numbers are still rising?

spooky donkey

Well I think it was sad to see the likes of the Classic in Harrolds cross or the Stella in Rathmines close. They were real cinemas. Thay had the red carpet feel, like going to the cinema was a special ocasion. Now a days ya have the UCI`s and that one in liffy valley where ya feel like its a convayer belt system. Get them in and get them out quick. I miss the usher with the old style uniform, cap and torch. Bring back the red carpet and get more people to goto the cinema, its not just about seeing a film we have DVD for that.

Vokes

Article here from the Washington Post about the box office slump in Europe.

German crowd are blaming it on a combination of the simultaneous worldwide releases and German vs American viewing habits. The Italians are just spending less.

Th UK is down only a little so i guess the Irish box office is similar.

ixoy

Well it seems the slump is breaking now - this weekend was up 7.5% from last year, thanks primarily to 'Charlie and the Chocolate Factory' which took in $55m, the highest opening for a Depp-led movie.

'Wedding Crashers' also debuted solidly at $33m..

Apparently these sort of different movies are what crowds have been waiting for which, in the case of 'Charlie...', might actually be true.

ObeyGiant

Sorry to drag this thread back onto the front page of the film forum, but I came across an article that might be relevant and interesting. The Big Picture suggests that audience attendance is down because of the 15 minutes of advertising before each movie. It's backed up with some really nice anecdotal evidence - the head of New Line Cinema chosing to see WotW in a real cinema instead of Jim Carrey's house and being driven insane by the 15 minutes of ads.

BlitzKrieg

i will def agree to that...the Regel Union cinemas (in new york) have an actually E! like program on for the 20 minutes before a film starts and then have another 10 minutes of ads, only 2 of which would be for other movies...it is getting stupid.

But advertising in America has always been stupid.

MrPinK

The worst part about American cinemas (at least all the ones I went to in Boston) is that there is never allocated seating, even on the opening nights of major releases. So unless you want to sit at the side of the front row, you have to arrive 30 minutes early and sit through every one of the ads.