Tiresome Lefties/Anarchists riot In Edinburgh

saibhne

saibhne wrote:

Oscar
Media coverage like that negates their efforts.

I'd have thought that the problem actually lay with the armed balaclaved protesters feeding the media.
There were no riots for instance in hyde park that I heard of the other day.

Running around masked is childish , immature and anathema to most ordinary citizens-obeying the law is not however.

saibhne

Earthman wrote:

I'd have thought that the problem actually lay with the armed balaclaved protesters feeding the media.
There were no riots for instance in hyde park that I heard of the other day.

Running around masked is childish , immature and anathema to most ordinary citizens-obeying the law is not however.

Don't know if I read you correctly Earthman but I think we agree - I was referring to the efforts of the peaceful protestors being negated by those who choose violence to express their protest. Not sure if they are feeding the media though, more like they feed off each other - used to work on a radio news service and the maxim "if it bleeds it leads" was the order of the day.

btw I like your signature quote, the one about coming around and meeting the other extreme - who's it from?

civdef

I watched a few newscasts and i saw relatively small groups of people being pushed back by cops in riot gear who woud sometimes baton the lower extremities of the people they were pushing back.

They're called distraction strikes - do little physical damage (hurt a bit though), and are generally preferable to the baton-strikes-to-head alternative...

I saw one clip where one such protester seemed to retaliate by tossing a bin into the air in the general direction of some cops. The newscaster told us their was violence by protesters, that some protesters were just there to try and cause trouble but i didn't see this in the footage i got.

I saw footage on RTE of park benches being launched at police - does that count?

saibhne

saibhne wrote:

btw I like your signature quote - who's it from?

It's a comment from Clint Eastwood of all people from Time march '05.


I'm tempted to say it made my day when I read it first but that would be a very very very bad pun.

jman0

civdef wrote:

I saw footage on RTE of park benches being launched at police - does that count?

I might have seen something similar, on RTE last night i saw a park bench on it's side, standing up. But i don't remember seeing it being launched at police however.

mycroft

jman0 wrote:

I might have seen something similar, on RTE last night i saw a park bench on it's side, standing up. But i don't remember seeing it being launched at police however.

A park bench was used to shove at police lines.

I particularly liked the group tearing up a flower bed to throw at police, and ya'll are complaining about enviromental destruction.

The violent protest at a major economic summit has had its day. When Seattle, Goethenburg, Genoa had happened, next to no one knew of the G8 or IMF or World bank. And protestor tactics were so confusing and straight to police that the protestors were able to shut down or distrupt the summits, effectively highlighting their cause.

4 years after Genoa Gordon Brown, and the international development secretary are marching and speaking at drop the debt conferences and rallies, and police tactics isolate and distrupt protestors, resulting in small groups of protestors lashing out ignorantly.

Debt relief is on the agenda, the trick is now is to intellectually engage your opponent, and ensure that debt relief, aid, and trade barriers are dropped or continued in the most effective manner possible, and honest manner.

You're not going to do that by wearing a balaclava and screaming f*ck the pigs.

tim3115

Completely agree with what Deadwing said earlier.

hmm, makes me wonder what the cop did to illicit such a response from a member of the general public.

Makes me wonder why these people are still allowed to walk the streets brandishing weapons. Cops should be tougher these days, it doesn't make sense anymore. It seems that the little groups get more protection than ever but it should be the other way around. The Police should have the last say, no matter what the situation. Trust has to be placed in the members. And I trust any officer to clear our streets of such scúm.

pete

Earthman wrote:

I think I can help you out there...

Pic curtesy of The independent

the retractable baton being swung by the policeman can be seen more clearly here:



so is it possibly a case of self defence? and if so, by and from whom?

uberwolf

pete wrote:

so is it possibly a case of self defence? and if so, by and from whom?

the policeman is entitled to carry the baton, and would have been operating under orders in using it.

The 'protester' was carrying a weapon illegally. His intent is pretty clear to anyone viewing the situation. Also the masked hero is further through his swing.

jman0 wrote:

I might have seen something similar, on RTE last night i saw a park bench on it's side, standing up. But i don't remember seeing it being launched at police however.

approx 2 seconds earlier on that same RTE coverage they showed the bench being launched at a line of policemen.

jman0 wrote:

hmm, makes me wonder what the cop did to illicit such a response from a member of the general public.

naturally the masked person carrying the weapon didn't precipitate the response from the cop. Utterly unthinkable.

SkepticOne

It looks to me that the the black-clad, masked and armed fellow and the policeman are engaging in "direct action". Talking does not always work.

shuushh

sorry symbolic was probably the wrong word, tradition probably best describes the wearing of the black scarf around the face, obviously they also wear it to elude police forces ect as someone pointed out they are breaking the law as they are trying to change a system they dont believe in

the casual attempt to associate anarchists with the KKK was both amusing, pathethic and worthy of The Daily Express all at the same time

so make up your mind lads either there tree hugging soft weak pussies
or are they a bunch of criminal terrorist thugs which is it

not that i agree with alot of their beliefs but i do enjoy their attitudes to protest

pete

uberwolf wrote:

The 'protester' was carrying a weapon illegally.

It looks more like one of the pieces of wood the SWP etc nail their posters to when making placards than a 'weapon' brought with malice aforethought.

His intent is pretty clear to anyone viewing the situation.

With all due respect I can't help but feel that speaks more of your own prejudices than anything else.

Also the masked hero is further through his swing.

Well now... if you look at the stance of both, you can see that the protestors arms are already fully extended - it looks to me like it would be physically impossible for him to swing anywhere near the police officer. Looks more like a defensive stance to me.

On the other hand, the police officer appears to be shifting his weight onto his left leg, as if moving forward towards the protestor while swinging his baton.

But i guess that speaks more of my own prejudices than anything else, what with me not actually having seen any of this first (or second) hand.

Sand

Id like to point out how the whole "left/right" hemegony has degraded modern political thought in that it do's more to create a single divide of antagonism instead of allowing intelligent debate among people with differing philosiphys.

I agree, right and left dont really mean much at all beyond labels to associate negatively with opponents. I do it, and everyone else does it too. Postions are so multi-faceted that they cant be contained in those labels anymore. If youre in favour of equal recognition for homosexual unions, but against abortion are you on the right or left? Especially if the basis for opposing abortion is the same as the basis for supporting homosexuals equality before the law - that everyone should have the same rights, even the unborn. Are ultra-nationalists right or left? Is religion of the right politically, even though if anything, its traditional encouragement of charity and goodworks would tend to fit in with socialists redistribution philosophy?

Even anarchists - who are traditionally painted as being on the left - are more complex than that...anarcho-capitalists and synidcalist anarchists would agree on only one thing - the state needs to go, theyd disagree on practically every other decision on how society should be organised.

I'd have thought that the problem actually lay with the armed balaclaved protesters feeding the media.
There were no riots for instance in hyde park that I heard of the other day.

Yep - The march the day before passed without incident as far as I heard, despite the same police force being involved. About the only constant in these riots across Europe is that its the same circle of black masked morons travelling for the summer holidays to smash things up and get in fights with the local cops. Its different police forces every time, they cant *all* be suddenly thugs looking for a scrap. Most would be guys with families, doing a job, who just want to head home and see the match like anyone else who dont need the hassle of getting a brick thrown at them or getting investigated.

And in a popularity contest between the police force of any democratic state and black masked tools smashing up city centers....well, its no contest in the minds of the public.

The Irish times today is an example with a front page story about clashes with anti-capitalists and anarchists - not much mention of those who are there to request an abolition of third world debt or fairer world trade and who are protesting in a peaceful manner... Media coverage like that negates their efforts.

Then it would be in the best interests of everyone if the organisers of these marches co-operated with the authorities to remove the disruptive elements who hijack the publicity. The English FA took responsibility for dealing with the hooligan elements that hijacked the England teams trips abroad. They could have put their hands up and said - nothing to do with us, we didnt invite them. But that doesnt really change the impression given, of at least toleration of these guys - the most common view Ive seen from people involved in this stuff is that these "anarchists" might have questionable methods but their hearts are in the right place.

Nuttzz

pete wrote:

Looks more like a defensive stance to me.

of course if he wasnt wearing a face mask and carrying a weapon in the first place he wont need a defensive stance....

pete

Sand wrote:

Its different police forces every time, they cant *all* be suddenly thugs looking for a scrap. Most would be guys with families, doing a job, who just want to head home and see the match like anyone else who dont need the hassle of getting a brick thrown at them or getting investigated.

And some would be the type who get their kicks dragging kids into police cells and beating the living **** out of them*. Some would be the type we all saw on TV beating the crap out of "rioters" on Dame Street. Maybe some would even be the type who plant evidence, fake confessions and frame innocent people.

Investigated? A fairly recent development, that one.

Yes, most are good guys with families. But some most certainly aren't - sometimes if feels like there's a few too many among the ranks of our supposed defenders of the peace.

* Yes, allegedly. Unfortunately a claim i've heard alleged by the alleged victims and seen the bruises first hand a few too many times.

pete

Nuttzz wrote:

of course if he wasnt wearing a face mask and carrying a weapon in the first place he wont need a defensive stance....

All I'm saying is context is everything.

Blackjack

To be honest, and having been in the general vicinity this week, I can safely say that this was an organised Riot. These groups have been hanging around offices in Edinburgh and taking photos of the entrance areas of Buildings which house various companies.
While much of this may have been to confuse the police as much as anything else, it's hardly the behaviour of peaceful protestors.

The Police policy was one of containment, rather than confrontation. When these people started to get out of hand, and only then, was when the police reacted.

An office belonging to one financial Organisation had 3 bricks thrown in through their windows. One Office had to be evacuated under Police escort.

When you see the mess that has been made of the beautiful princes street gardens (that are there for everyone to enjoy) it's an absolute disgrace. The benches that were yesterday being lobbed at Police are memorials donated by people from all over the world, some native of Edinburgh, and others from people who just want to give something so that people can enjoy a seat in one of the world's most beautiful cities. The fact that these tossers decided to do their best to wreck the place yesterday only decreases any sympathy I have for their cause.
This article (requires registration, free) as well as this one gives a local perspective of the events.

It's been in the news leading up to today that this would be the troublesome event. The "Organisers" had no permission (and did not request any) to March, and their only intention was one of violence.

Funnily enough there was no trouble today. Maybe it's Giro day.

pete

SkepticOne wrote:

So these anarchists, militants whatever you want to call them, does anyone think that they have some political aim that they see being achieved with their activities? Or is it just a bunch of kids having a bit of a laugh? They seem to be totally disconnected with genuine political activity and the concerns of ordinary people.

Dissent Ireland is a local working group of the DISSENT NETWORK. Dissent Ireland is a network of activists who have come together to organise against the G8 Summit to be held in Scotland in July of 2005. The group is open to anyone who is willing to work within the hallmarks of Peoples Global Action;

http://www.dissentireland.org/

What is PGA?

From the 23rd to the 26th of February of 1998, grassroots movements of all continents met in Geneva to launch a worldwide coordination network of resistance to the global market, a new alliance of struggle and solidarity called Peoples' Global Action against 'free' trade and the WTO (PGA). That was the birth of this global tool for communication and coordination for all those who fight the destruction of humanity and the planet by capitalism and build local alternatives to globalisation.

The defining documents of the PGA are its five hallmarks, its organisational principles and its manifesto.

At the conference in Bangalore, India in August 1999 the hallmarks and the organisational principles were amended to reflect discussions about clarifying differences to right-wing anti-globalizers. A new second hallmark was added.
The Hallmarks were changed at the conference in Cochabamba 2001.

HALLMARKS:

1. A very clear rejection of capitalism, imperialism and feudalism; all trade agreements, institutions and governments that promote destructive globalisation.

2. We reject all forms and systems of domination and discrimination including, but not limited to, patriarchy, racism and religious fundamentalism of all creeds. We embrace the full dignity of all human beings.

3. A confrontational attitude, since we do not think that lobbying can have a major impact in such biased and undemocratic organisations, in which transnational capital is the only real policy-maker;

4. A call to direct action and civil disobedience, support for social movements' struggles, advocating forms of resistance which maximize respect for life and oppressed peoples' rights, as well as the construction of local alternatives to global capitalism.

5. An organisational philosophy based on decentralisation and autonomy.

http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/en/index.html

frootfancy

* Yes, allegedly. Unfortunately a claim i've heard alleged by the alleged victims and seen the bruises first hand a few too many times.[/QUOTE]


Are you a lawyer?

pete

frootfancy wrote:

* Yes, allegedly. Unfortunately a claim i've heard alleged by the alleged victims and seen the bruises first hand a few too many times.

Are you a lawyer?[/QUOTE]
No. Why - do you not like them either?

dissentireland.org

dissentireland.org wrote:

A confrontational attitude, since we do not think that lobbying can have a major impact in such biased and undemocratic organisations, in which transnational capital is the only real policy-maker;

In other words féck what the majority think...because you wont listen and impliment what a tiny tiny minority want, then we'll organise a riot.
Very terroristic to be frank and diserving of no respect in my view.

ambro25

Blackjack wrote:

Funnily enough there was no trouble today. Maybe it's Giro day.

LOL

Heres one of the "brave" little runts at work smashing a car window (pic from the BBC)

pete

Earthman wrote:

In other words féck what the majority think...because you wont listen and impliment what a tiny tiny minority want, then we'll organise a riot.

As it happens, not listening and implementing what a tiny tiny minority want is pretty much the charge made against the WTO / IMF / G8 by these protestors.

Deadwing

pete wrote:

It looks more like one of the pieces of wood the SWP etc nail their posters to when making placards than a 'weapon' brought with malice aforethought.



With all due respect I can't help but feel that speaks more of your own prejudices than anything else.

Of course!! This fine young member of society was merely out putting up posters, using that club to hammer nails into the posters, obviously was wearing a cover over his face to stop any splinters from flying into his mouth, when he was brutally assaulted by one of 'the pigs'.

pete

pete wrote:

As it happens, not listening and implementing what a tiny tiny minority want is pretty much the charge made against the WTO / IMF / G8 by these protestors.

You pretty much imply then that a majority of people are in favour of these hooligans and their wants which is not the case unless you can show me evidence to the contrary?

DadaKopf

Earthman wrote:

You pretty much imply then that a majority of people are in favour of these hooligans and their wants which is not the case unless you can show me evidence to the contrary?

I think Pete was pointing out the hypocrisy of the people who criticise the political actions of a minority of direct activists because those critics by default defend a powerful, unelected minority which affects all our lives, causes poverty and destroys the environment.

Many people protesting would agree with the objectives of the DISSENT activists, but not necessarily their methods, as they prefer non-violent protest. So your accusation doesn't really work.

pete

Deadwing wrote:

Of course!! This fine young member of society was merely out putting up posters, using that club to hammer nails into the posters, obviously was wearing a cover over his face to stop any splinters from flying into his mouth, when he was brutally assaulted by one of 'the pigs'.

i said attach their posters to, not attach their posters with

pete

DadaKopf wrote:

I think Pete was pointing out the hypocrisy of the people who criticise the political actions of a minority of direct activists because those critics by default defend a powerful, unelected minority which affects all our lives, causes poverty and destroys the environment.

Many people protesting would agree with the objectives of the DISSENT activists, but not necessarily their methods, as they prefer non-violent protest. So your accusation doesn't really work.

what he said

DadaKopf

DadaKopf wrote:

I think Pete was pointing out the hypocrisy of the people who criticise the political actions of a minority of direct activists

Except they are not political actions,they are unlawfull riotous actions for the most part encouraged by anarchists.
Reprehensible in my humble opinion and I suspect in the opinion of the law abiding decent majority.