Tiresome Lefties/Anarchists riot In Edinburgh

DadaKopf

Earthman wrote:

This thread is about Edinburgh and I've commented on topic about that and answered your question

Theres really no need to feel uncomfortable due to inferences you yourself are drawing from what I say on topic in this thread as I'm trying to stick to the topic rather than flesh out what I think regarding your tangential questions.
If this were another thread on the morality of war,on what the government should be allowed to do vs what the people should be allowed to do etc etc etc I might be fleshing out my views on those topics such that you wouldn't have to make any inferences.

Wait a minute. This thread is about the protests in Edinburgh and the legitimacy of anarchists to protest in the way that they did. Inevitably, posters began questioning the assumptions people make when condemning or justifying such actions. In order to understand your position, I've attempted to temporarily bracket the core of the argument from the specifics of the events in Edinburgh as a thought experiment - a legitimate (i.e. on-topic) method of examining an argument before returning to the topic at hand.

During my last post, I was already thinking of ways to relate what I said, and any potential response from you, to the events at hand. So I don't believe I've gone off topic.

I tried to logically draw out the inferences from what you said, using a historical example for illustrative effect.

In response, you've dodged answering the question by claiming it's off topic. If this is off topic, I can't see how a discussion of "Tiresome Lefties/Anarchists riot In Edinburgh" can take place here at all. Otherwise, this a prejudice and vitriol zone only.

SkepticOne

I think the main problem is that the more serious campaigners are still reluctant to take responsibility for the muppets or wombles in their midst. A protest about ending third world debt can't also be about having a laugh at the expense of businesses in Edinburgh and still expect to be taken seriously. It is not enough to say that these people are only a minority. Don't leave it to the police to sort out these problems.

Nuttzz

sovtek wrote:

No it was the corporate magnates of last century that just up and decided (out of their collective goodness and decency) to "give" it to us. .

ohh boo hoo i'm being opressed by the man

sovtek wrote:

Leftist are all just a bunch of rebellious, ingrate teenagers.

glad to see we agree

bonkey

SkepticOne wrote:

Don't leave it to the police to sort out these problems.

Y'huh?

That would be because of the fact that if these balaclava-clad thugs are willing to take on well-equipped riot police its unquestionable that they'll calmly and peacefully listen to non-police asking them nicely not to cause a fuss?

Or - if not - how would you propose the organisers take the law into their own hands, when even the law can't apparently make a good job of it?

jc

DadaKopf

DadaKopf wrote:

So I don't believe I've gone off topic.

You were asking me about my opinion on completely different protests like Black civil rights in the States etc.
Let me tell you one thing though,you tried to make that relevant in a remote way by saying that they were looking for their rights in a sensible democracy(The phrase I used to describe the UK currently)
The U.S then was not.
There was segregation and people registering blacks to vote were murdered-thats far removed from what the situation is in the UK and if you want to discuss it,please open a new thread.

I appreciate that there is a good potential discussion in what you were talking about but its a tangent.
It's Off topic here completely-End of.
So back on topic please.

mike65

Is it me or have things gone very quiet in Scotland since about 9 am?

Mike.

SkepticOne

bonkey wrote:

Y'huh?

That would be because of the fact that if these balaclava-clad thugs are willing to take on well-equipped riot police its unquestionable that they'll calmly and peacefully listen to non-police asking them nicely not to cause a fuss?

Or - if not - how would you propose the organisers take the law into their own hands, when even the law can't apparently make a good job of it?

jc

Yes I am suggesting that. It is not that I expect them to be listened to by the thugs but the delusion that the idiots have that they are doing something positive will be lessened when those who actually care about the issues and want to see things change attempt to intervene as opposed to merely the police whose job it is.

During the "Bloody Sunday" march, John Hume, one of the organisers physically tried to prevent rioting braking out. He knew that whatever was to be achieved by the march would be undermined by mindlessness. Whatever moral power the thing would have had would be gone.

Mindless rioting undermines whatever might otherwise be achieved by protest. Those who instigate it don't know this, or more likely don't care, but those who stand by need to take responsibility. What is it all about otherwise?

jman0

SkepticOne wrote:

During the "Bloody Sunday" march, John Hume, one of the organisers physically tried to prevent rioting braking out. He knew that whatever was to be achieved by the march would be undermined by mindlessness. Whatever moral power the thing would have had would be gone.

That is blatantly false.
John Hume did not attend the march now known as Bloody Sunday.
"The MP said while he did not attend the march, he visited the families of the dead and injured on the evening of Bloody Sunday."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1773974.stm

jman0

mike65 wrote:

Is it me or have things gone very quiet in Scotland since about 9 am?
Mike.

Unknown really, maybe you are getting this impression because the media have now descended on London, instead of covering the protest.

SkepticOne

jman0 wrote:

That is blatantly false.
John Hume did not attend the march now known as Bloody Sunday.
"The MP said while he did not attend the march, he visited the families of the dead and injured on the evening of Bloody Sunday."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1773974.stm

You are correct. I was wrong.

I confused it with a different incident namely the "Battle of the Bogside". I think my point remains valid though that if it were percieved that those protesting were out specifically for confrontation, any value in the protest would be gone.

sovtek

Nuttzz wrote:

ohh boo hoo i'm being opressed by the man

If working 10-16 hour days, six days a week, without safety regulations, starting when you are about 8 yo and doing that till your dead appeals to you...then by all means...keep disparaging leftists.
Today that would be called "labour flexibility".

Nuttzz

sovtek wrote:

If working 10-16 hour days, six days a week,

when i first set up my business thats what i had to do.

only one person is going to improve your lot and that is yourself.

sceptre

Nuttzz wrote:

when i first set up my business thats what i had to do.

I trust you didn't set up your business when you were eight?

Blackjack

mike65 wrote:

Is it me or have things gone very quiet in Scotland since about 9 am?

Mike.

Some Minor Incidents in Edinburgh, a larger protest in Glasgow, some bridges closed, with disruption to the Transport networks. (linky)

I don't know what these people are thinking. The cops have enough to do trying to ensure the security and safety of people and to try to prevent any incidents similar to those in London without have to deal with this crap.

Blackjack

dSTAR wrote:

Irish people seem to forget that the British civilised the Irish.

On the contrary, it was the other way round. You should perhaps read this book.

Pinochet

i was really hoping they blamed the bombings on the protestors. a good excuse for rounding them up and putting them in jail

mycroft

Pinochet wrote:

i was really hoping they blamed the bombings on the protestors. a good excuse for rounding them up and putting them in jail

Nice to see the owner of the only copy of the national way forward has joined us on boards.ie. Yeah thats it what you really want is to scapegoat some antiglobalisation protestors so the guilty party can go free

Pinochet

mycroft wrote:

Nice to see the owner of the only copy of the national way forward has joined us on boards.ie. Yeah thats it what you really want is to scapegoat some antiglobalisation protestors so the guilty party can go free

we have enough lions for both

catholicireland

Irish people seem to forget that the British civilised the Irish.

What exactly do you mean when you use the word "civilised"?