Self Empoyed v Employed

kluivert

Whats the benefits or disadvantages of being self employed or employed. Which would you prefer. Has anyone gone from employed to self employed and how did they find the transition between the two.

It seems that being self employed is the proper way to make a secured future but employed is less hassle.

antoinolachtnai

Not necessarily true at all. Just for example, a lot of the people who are working self-employed in the IT sector might be better off now if they'd joined the civil service and somehow got a principal officer level post. The pay is good and very steady compared to IT contracting. You work a steady 38 hours a week. Most importantly, there is a very good pension.

The pension is important to think about. There are a lot of guys in their fifties in Ireland who have worked hard to build successful businesses, but have made very little provision for their pensions. Now they have to find some way to sell their businesses to give themselves a nest-egg. As it happens, it isn't too bad for this class of people, because they've generally benefited massively from the property boom. But you wouldn't want to depend on th same thing happening for you.

I'm not saying the civil service is an exciting life (I don't think I would do it on a permanent basis) but all I'm saying is that it's financially not bad.

Now I know that this can be argued either way - if you are starting out as a civil servant, it will be years before you will be able to buy a house -. Just giving an alternative view.

You've got to decide what's important for you.

Nuttzz

I have gone from employed to self employed and despite all the usual ups and downs of business I wouldnt go back to being an employee again

soma

My own feeling on this is that unless you end up in a massively high powered position somewhere it's quite hard to be truly financially 'comfortable' in this country without being self employed (exception to this rule is people who have done well from property the last few years - however this is highly transitory).

I'm doing ok as an IT contractor, but my long term goal is my own company or at least partial interest/ownership in a number of businesses.

Actually do you know what I think my greatest hurdle will be..? finding like-minded people. I am absolutely astounded at the number of people I've met in my life who are so eager to settle for a 9-5er existence working extremely hard to make other people rich. I've often sounded a few people out to see if they might be interested in starting a business (nothing too specific, and not even mentioning myself as a partner etc..) and most would not even consider it.

Our society has become quite americanized (ah the irony of me using a 'z' there.. *hehe*) in the last 10-15 years however noticably we do not share their gift/goal of working for yourself.

I'll keep my eyes peeled on these boards for budding entrepreneur types

kluivert

I agree with that last point from Soma, to many people work 9-5 and are happy with that. Am only 21 but i cant see myself being an employee within the next ten years. I have some good business ideas that id like to explore in the future.

I think there is one issue turning from employed to self employed and thats the period of time during the transition in which you have no sure income, ok being self employed income is never a gaurantee and never fool yourself of this.


Although this is an issue to contend with, it is without a doubt an issue that can not be overcome, as there is a great majority of people who are self employed.

So if your interested in going that way, do some research and give it ago.

Snooky

soma wrote:

My own feeling on this is that unless you end up in a massively high powered position somewhere it's quite hard to be truly financially 'comfortable' in this country without being self employed (exception to this rule is people who have done well from property the last few years - however this is highly transitory).

I'm doing ok as an IT contractor, but my long term goal is my own company or at least partial interest/ownership in a number of businesses.

Actually do you know what I think my greatest hurdle will be..? finding like-minded people. I am absolutely astounded at the number of people I've met in my life who are so eager to settle for a 9-5er existence working extremely hard to make other people rich. I've often sounded a few people out to see if they might be interested in starting a business (nothing too specific, and not even mentioning myself as a partner etc..) and most would not even consider it.

Our society has become quite americanized (ah the irony of me using a 'z' there.. *hehe*) in the last 10-15 years however noticably we do not share their gift/goal of working for yourself.

I'll keep my eyes peeled on these boards for budding entrepreneur types

Just wanted to respond to your thoughts above on "biggest hurdle/like-minded people etc."

Have to say this is defo an enormous hurdle for me too. and I agree with how amazing it is that everybody just wants to do their 9 - 5s with little or no ambitions to work for themselves and become financially free. tbh in the short term it will continue this way for me unfortunately, however I've set goals to be self employed inside 5 years. I fully believe this time could be slashed having 1 or more partners to join forces working together to build plans, researching ideas etc.,

My question is: does anybody have suggestions as to clear this hurdle?

Are there any clubs or groups where people can go and discuss entrepreneurship etc.,

I've attended several courses and workshops on starting a business but what I find is most people seem to have their specific plans in mind so it's difficult to sorta say hey lets join forces and plan and build a company to complete strangers. I'm sure alot of the people I see are planning to start their business' solo, however I feel it would be infinitely better (for me imperative) that I begin working on a joint project, and I believe more minds are better than 1 and I've quite large ambitions....

I'm always looking for peoples opinions on the subject so I'd really appreciate any new ideas or suggestion

copacetic

I think it is difficult for a lot of people to take the step as they need the monthly pay packet just to survive. I know 4 or 5 small companies that spun out of my old job as a lot of people made money off shares and could afford to do it.
When I was between jobs I looked into starting my own place but the figures were no good, I needed a fair bit of captial to get going.
So I took a job and planned to try and get some cash together to go out on my own, needless to say that was 2.5 years ago and I am a long way from going out on my own.
With a big mortgage payment I am kinda stuck, but it is a relatively interesting job.
Also I would love a job thats 9-5 like the ones described above! mine is a lot more hours than that!!

A Dub in Glasgo

Not everyone is cut out for a haphazard work/life balance to become self employed. If everyone was doing it, there would be very little money in it!!

I am now working self employed although this was enforced through redundancy. I am earning a lot more money than when I was staff but the usual caveats are there

1) Sickness and holidays cost you money
2) No final salary company pension scheme (something I had for 11 years until I was made redundant)
3) You have to go where the work is. At the moment I am commuting Monday/Friday from Glasgow to Manchester and renting a room in a house whilest away. This is not an ideal environment when you have a wife and young kids to support.


I am generally amazed at the tax rules which allow self employed folk to have a much higher net/gross income ratio

Chipboard

I'm a 9-5er but I have been absolutely itching to start my own business for the last couple of years. I work as a commercial lender for a bank so I'm heavily involved in assessing credit worthiness of alot of start-up businesses and it is probably this that is swaying me towards going that route. When I'm abroad I am constantly looking for good ideas that would transfer to Ireland. I have a degree in a finance related discipline so I'm probably fairly well placed to go into business but I can see the other side of it as Dub in Glasgow pointed out in relation to sickness/pension/mobility etc. I've knocked alot of my own ideas before the even got to the drawing board so maybe I'm being too cautious. I've probably financed alot of ventures that I wouldn't like to stake my livelihood on. I seriously considered a franchise around 3 months ago. I got in contact with the franchisee in the UK but it only took an information pack, a phone call and 2 emails to reveal that they were a shower of chancers. I'm very wary of jumping on a bandwagon and becoming something like a mortgage intermediary or a property investor/developer (even though it might suit my qualifications) - very successful pursuits if measured over the last 10 years but how long can it last?

Snooky

Chipboard I often think to myself that working in a role like the one you've described or maybe a small accountancy practise whose clients consist of mainly small business' etc., would give a fantastic insight into how start-ups in all sectors tend to fair in the very early days, also what were the key factors which lead to Biz' succeeding or failing. Do you get that sort of a picture in your job, it must give you some sort of direction as to what type of business you'd like to build.

Chipboard

Its educational alright. There's a saying in the job that you learn more from the ones (loans) that go wrong, than you do from the ones that go right. Everytime I pick up a file I'm saying to myself "whats this guy doing to make money". Half the time they're just investing in property which I wouldn't even consider because it would bore me, it would be hassle and everyone's doing it - you've probably heard the story about JFK and why he got out of the stockmarket before one of the big crashes; he was getting his shoes polished by a street shoe shiner one day and the shoe shine guy asked him what he thought of a particular stock he had just bought into, and JFK decided that if the shoe shine guy was in the stockmarket, it was time for him to get out. Thats exactly the way the property market is in Ireland today.

I've summarised (in as few words as possible) what I believe the keys to success are in the last paragraph of this post.

www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=278516


The only thing I left out is hard graft - I think alot of people fall down on this. They're ready for the sexy end of being in business, the corporate entertaining, the freedom/power etc but they're not that crazy about staying til midnight on a friday night to sort out a problem or get an order out, but I've no doubt if your going to succeed you'll have to do it cos the bucks stops with you - the guy your paying €30k a year to, isn't going to stay til midnight is he.

Around four years ago, I put it to two friends of mine, that the three of us, with our degrees, in an economy which was firing on all cylinders, should be able to make a success of ourselves if we pooled resources/ideas, so we started meeting on a regular basis to dicuss ideas and it looked as if we would make atleast a good attempt but then the 'Me Fein' attitude crept in. I had an idea which I shared with the group. Then one of the lads had an idea, but he decided to keep it for himself which I thought was going against the spirit of things so I went my own way. If your going into partnership you need to be 110% sure of who your teaming up with. Banks dont like partnerships for this reason.

RainyDay

Chipboard wrote:

you've probably heard the story about JFK and why he got out of the stockmarket before one of the big crashes; he was getting his shoes polished by a street shoe shiner one day and the shoe shine guy asked him what he thought of a particular stock he had just bought into, and JFK decided that if the shoe shine guy was in the stockmarket, it was time for him to get out.

Actually, it was JFK's father - Joe Kennedy - but I agree with you in relation to property investments in Ireland.

soma

Chipboard wrote:

Everytime I pick up a file I'm saying to myself "whats this guy doing to make money". Half the time they're just investing in property

That's very interesting (given your role) to hear you say that. Many many people out there (usually majorly vested interests) keep saying the amount of investors (they're really speculators) in the the irish property market is small or at least negligible enough not to cause a price decline etc if they start selling up.

I do believe that's pretty far from the truth - I do think the investor/speculator end of the market could be as high as 25-30%.

Chipboard wrote:

you've probably heard the story about JFK and why he got out of the stockmarket before one of the big crashes; he was getting his shoes polished by a street shoe shiner one day and the shoe shine guy asked him what he thought of a particular stock he had just bought into, and JFK decided that if the shoe shine guy was in the stockmarket, it was time for him to get out. Thats exactly the way the property market is in Ireland today.

I've used this exact story a few times when explaining to people my concerns over the property market, it's usually met with a blank look or one of pity as they see me being 'negative' or just 'not understanding how things work' :rolleyes:

Chipboard wrote:

Around four years ago, I put it to two friends of mine, that the three of us, with our degrees, in an economy which was firing on all cylinders, should be able to make a success of ourselves

You see I think thats a huge mistake, getting friends/family involved a business, you need to go into business with acquaintances/colleagues/associates that you trust - but they shouldnt really be friends - you have to be able to voice strong opinions and even give someone a bollocking if its needed for the good of a business - if u do this with friends - it'll destroy relationships.

Chipboard

soma wrote:

That's very interesting (given your role) to hear you say that. Many many people out there (usually majorly vested interests) keep saying the amount of investors (they're really speculators) in the the irish property market is small or at least negligible enough not to cause a price decline etc if they start selling up.

I do believe that's pretty far from the truth - I do think the investor/speculator end of the market could be as high as 25-30%.

I've thought there was a false market in residential property evident for some time but I can illustrate how false it is. I know of a customer of mine (when I was in a previous role looking after lending for a number of branches) who owned two houses in a midlands town and couldn't rent them so he sold them on at a profit. And the people who bought them (investors) of course couldn't rent them either but they were in there for the capital appreciation anyway and the cost of paying the interest only mortgage was no big deal to them so they held on to them for a while and then sold them on at a profit. This is completely crazy. From an investors point of view a house is good for one thing - renting, and even though they couldn't rent them they keep appreciating in value - how artificial is that. Believe you me, even the people lending money for property investment know there is a bubble but the banks are in competion and the object of the game is to get the biggest slice of whatever pie is going.

soma wrote:

You see I think thats a huge mistake, getting friends/family involved a business, you need to go into business with acquaintances/colleagues/associates that you trust - but they shouldnt really be friends - you have to be able to voice strong opinions and even give someone a bollocking if its needed for the good of a business - if u do this with friends - it'll destroy relationships.

Well I can see your point but like I was saying, partnerships with people you don't know are dangerous, mind you I agree that going into partnership with family would be a bad idea - there's a whole range of crap you just don't need getting in the way. The key to a good partnership is that everyone brings something to the table. I know one partnership that contains a solicitor, an estate agent and an engineer - perfect spread of skills for keeping the costs down.