Vieira to Juventus?

andyman

I said earlier in this thread that I had to see it to believe it.

I have seen it so now I do believe it.

/me waves Champions League trophy under gandalf's nose

gandalf

andy you a pool fan then ?

As I said I am not too phased about Paddy going, the time was right for him and for Arsenal.

yop

Great bit of business for Juve, a steal at 20m euro IF he is fit and injury free, but maybe Whinger has some it up his sleeve, shame now, will miss himself and Keano splitting each other, not too many real hard men left in the PL now, won't look at Gerard or Lampard falling into the "hard as nails" category.

Gravesen & Viera now gone only leaves Keane!

Fine player, will be a loss to the PL.

PHB

Yeh, i'm gona miss him.
I think he will need to be replaced, and think it is ahuge loss for Arsenal.
I know his form wasn't great last year, but this player is pure class and a fantastic signing for Juve.
Suprised he went for so little tbh, he is still only 29.
Who is going to be captain?
I can't think of anyone who really fills the captains role. Maybe Henry? Not really a leader.
Cole?

Chong

Campbell in the short term, then its gonna have to be Cole or Henry. Maybe Lehmann could have it, it would settle him and give him confidence which in turn he may play better.

wheres me jumpa

even as a man united fan i ave to say this is a loss to the league. regardless of his form, this is one of the top players in the country at one of the top clubs in the country. and for him to be plucked away so easily is a bit dissappointing.

i hope this is not the start of a mass migration of big players from the premiership.

ButcherOfNog

odd, didn't believe it when i first read it. only reason i can think of is that he wants the chance of a CL winners medal. Thats not a dig at Arsenal, but he wasn't going to win one with them with their european form being so poor. Don't think it'll weaken Arsenal too much, with Gilberto back fit again. Still a loss tho.

mr_angry

The whole thing reminds me a bit of Wenger telling Paul Merson that he was off to Middlesboro by telling him "£5m is good money for a 29 year-old". Its never been any secret that Wenger is a shrewd businessman - £22.5m profit on Anelka, £30m for Overmars and Petit, etc. I'm not even sure he'll splash out on an obvious replacement (certainly not >£12m on Jenas) right away. In my mind, Fabregas and Gilberto were our best midfield pairing right at the start of the season when we were blowing everybody away. I wouldn't be too concerned if we started next season the same way. The only danger is that with Vieira and Edu gone, that only really leaves Flamini and Hleb to fill the void in an injury crisis, and neither really fit the "midfield enforcer" bill.

There's a great article about buying players on Football365 today. I thought I'd reproduce the section on the requirement of buying someone "world class"...
http://www.football365.com/features/f365_features/story_156917.shtml

Football365 wrote:

'We Must Sign World-Class Players'
Always a good one, and certain to lead to a three-day debate as to what defines 'world class'. World-class players, if (loosely) defined as the very best 50 players in the world (and not just those who grace the world stage now and then), tend to cost £20m upwards. Not to mention £20m+ in wages over a four-year contract.

Someone - usually aged 15 - will get overexcited and go too far as, high from the fumes of unchanged underpants, he suggests the manager should sign Robinho, Robben, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Ronald McDonald. The words 'Championship Manager' will appear in reply soon after.

Any team needs the best players it can get its hands on: providing they fit into the scheme of things. Real Madrid remain the perfect example of how buying the best players without any great masterplan can result in declining standards. World-class players demand world-class wages. If their egos are oversized, and they drag their weight rather than pull it, they can destabilise a club.

Irish Gunner

Well at least its all over and he is gone what are the tabloids going to do

Its time now for Cesc and Gilberto to step up hopefully with Hleb. Not to dissappointed to see Paddy go but surprised at the price. I dont think he will do as well as he did for us and Italian footie is much more different. Also the fans are fickle Hope we dont get them in the Champions League but then again??

Arsene knows and hopefully we should have someone lined up but for £13 thats just a drop in the ocean for Chelski

Anyway thanks for the good times Paddy

andyman

gandalf wrote:

andy you a pool fan then ?

No United, but tell me gandalf. How many times have those Mad Gooners won the CL??

gandalf

LOL living on past glories there andy eh, I suppose you will have to take a ticket like the rest of us and go to Anfield to see the trophy

andyman

The only time you will see me at Anfield is when United are walking all over them.

BTW, I don't know why we're arguing over the CL when you've just lost you're skipper.

gandalf

No one is lost, he has been sold for a profit

As for next season I am confident Arsenal will finish above United again, Chelsea are the only team that worries me

Chong

gandalf wrote:

No one is lost, he has been sold for a profit

As for next season I am confident Arsenal will finish above United again, Chelsea are the only team that worries me

Thats bull sold for a profit, last season he was rated a 25 million. He has crap season last season and is sold 13 million. Last summer they could have 12 million more for crying out loud.

el rabitos

Thats bull sold for a profit, last season he was rated a 25 million. He has crap season last season and is sold 13 million. Last summer they could have 12 million more for crying out loud

:rolleyes: thats crazy. wenger took viera from a reserve player at ac milan and turned him into one of the best midfielders in the world, and i dont think he payed much more than 1 or 2 million for him.

so i think that would make viera's sale a huge profit. fergies eye for picking up a bargain in the transfer market are well documented as being muck tbh.

as for what his loss to arsenal mean, i dont think it will be too bad, theres alot of great young players at arsenal, some of the best young players in europe, the only thing is wheather or not they are good enough yet to compete for the title.

Chong

Ok he did all of that but he still could have made 12 million more.

Villain

Well I don't feel so bad about starting the thread now, I thought there for a while this would be a repeat of last seasons saga.

£13.7 isn't great though, not for a player like Veira anyway, I mean how many center midfielders is there in the premier league that you could honestly say are better than him?

Arsenal will find it hard to replace him, Fabregas is a good player with a lot of potential but doesn't have the same ball winning skills. I think Arsenal will suffer because of this sale but if he wanted to go there is no point in making him stay. Interesting times ahead....

Jivin Turkey

Willem D wrote:

Ok he did all of that but he still could have made 12 million more.

If only players didnt age and contracts didnt expire.

Vieira was hampered by injury last year, but still came good toward the end of the season. Its a strange decision to let him go, particularly for so little. They will definitely need to replace, they would have been fine but having lost Edu also they are quite lightweight in the middle of the park.

I wonder would this have changed Edu's mind about leaving?

Its good to see him getting a good send off. You couldnt ask for more than he did with his last kick of a football for Arsenal

Juve for the CL next year.

gandalf

Willem D wrote:

Thats bull sold for a profit, last season he was rated a 25 million. He has crap season last season and is sold 13 million. Last summer they could have 12 million more for crying out loud.

Err he is a year older and hindsight is a wonderful thing. Scoring the winning peno against united in the FA cup, priceless for everything else theres Mastercard (personally just for that moment I would sacrifice 12million )

Btw as I posted earlier he cost Arsenal 3.5mill back in 1996 from Milan which means profit of 10.2 Mill plus all the honours he won with Arsenal. He's a loss but there are doubts about his long term footballing health so this could be an inspired move by Wenger (providing he has a replacement lined up, which I would say he definately has !!!).

Roddy23

Just have to say thank you to PV4, for many great years and some great performances. For me his best partnership was with Petit.
The two of them together had it all.

Now in defence of Monsieur Wenger, I remember there was a similar feeling towards the club when the afore mentioned Petit left for Barca. Granted he did not have the same physical attributes that Vieira had, but Wenger could see that Petit's performances were starting to wane and the timing was right.

As to who will replace Vieira, I'm a bit unsure, as to having Cesc and Gilberto in midfield for a whole season, as I dont think its fair on Cesc, as he is only 19, and would be too much a burden on his shoulders. I hope Arsenal do buy a player who will fit the bill. As to who, I haven't a clue.
I have seen Ballack mentioned before as his replacment, but he's a bit of a selfer and I don't think his character would appeal to Wenger.

Regarding Pires I hope now they will resolve, any contractual issues, as I feel selling him now for a measely 3/4 million will make now odds, to our financial budget, when the chap even when he's not at his best is still capable of scoring 15 goals a season.

So again I'd like to thank Paddy on 9 tremendous years, and I wish him all the best in the future.

Cianan2

Just read this:

The Turin club have stated the fee will be paid in three installments; €10 million now, €5 million next year and a further €5 million in 2007.

So, do you think gunners will try and get Wright-Phillips with the new money? Or Jenas?

PHB

I know they still made a profit, but I still feel they could have made more of a profit this year and I'm still not quite sure why, especially with the market the way it is.
They could have sold him to Chelsea for like 40 million, and if it is true his preformances are dwindling then it wouldn't be a bad thing.
But I still think hes got two years at his best, and I think Juve got him on the cheap.

He will need to be replaced.
Cesc is a quality player, as is Silva, but they won't win the PL, they need box-to-box quality player in there, which I'm sure they'll buy

Cianan2

Cesc is a bit young,too. Will he be able to cope for the entire season? They'll definately need a new Midfield player.

gandalf

Cianan2 wrote:

Just read this:

So, do you think gunners will try and get Wright-Phillips with the new money? Or Jenas?

Would love to see Wright-Phillips at Arsenal but he is overpriced because he is English, as for Jenas I personally think he is over rated and again because he is english will be overpriced.

As for Ballack, good player but too much of a prima donna for my liking and again will probably be overpriced. Going to be an interesting few days/weeks of speculation thou

Pepe LeFrits

Not a happy camper.

The sum being mentioned is simply not enough for a player of his quality, i'd rather he stayed for the 2 years and left on a free as IMO Arsenal would have gotten better value from the successes on the pitch as a result of Vieira playing.

Positives:

- Henry will be captain.
- Fabregas (who, provided Arsenal hang on to him, will be their best ever midfielder) will develop at even faster rate. He plays the same role as Vieira and will complement a defensive midfielder like Gilberto or Flamini perfectly.
- Arsenal's playing style will change, I think Wenger will go for a more creative, attacking centre midfielder to partner Gilberto, eg Hleb (who is a CM) or Fabregas.
- New players will definately come in now.

I'd still rather he stayed though, and I can't understand hanging on to him at all costs last year and then letting him go for nearly £10m less this year. It doesn't make sense.

Gangsta

gandalf wrote:

Would love to see Wright-Phillips at Arsenal but he is overpriced because he is English, as for Jenas I personally think he is over rated and again because he is english will be overpriced.

As for Ballack, good player but too much of a prima donna for my liking and again will probably be overpriced. Going to be an interesting few days/weeks of speculation thou

Diarra has been mentioned as a replacement. I've seen him play and he's excellent. He's tall and powerful like Vieira.

Draupnir

fergies eye for picking up a bargain in the transfer market are well documented as being muck tbh

yes, good call mate.

Peter Schmeichel, Eric Cantona, Denis Irwin, Ole Gunnar Solksjaer, Steve Bruce.

All really bad "bargains". The simple fact is that every manager, every one, buys a dud from time to time.

I feel sorry for Vieira though, he never got to win the CL at Arsenal, which is probably a huge disappointment for him personally. He should have gone last season though.

I'm sure many will write Arsenal off now but Fabregas and Gilberto are both good players who are as good a central midfield partnership as you will get in the Premier League outside Lampard and Makalele.

Be interesting to see what signings are made but after this, I think Arsenal will lose more games than normal. In some games last season and moreso for the three seasons before that, especially when Thierry was asleep out on the left wing, Vieira dragged the team around the pitch single handedly.

The Muppet

Considering Gerrard was rumoured to be worth thirty million pounds for Liverpool if he went to Chelsea I can't understand why Paddy {IMO a better player} was sold for so little. (Just under £7 million this year and £3,5 for the next two years). Arsenal will definitely be a weaker team without him and it will be difficult for them to replace him like for like with the money they have got for him.

I wonder what long term effect it will have on the other established players especially the French contingent?

el rabitos

Peter Schmeichel, Eric Cantona, Denis Irwin, Ole Gunnar Solksjaer, Steve Bruce.

yep, all good players, considering he's been at the club about 15 years, 5 bargains over that span i would consider bad.

uniteds success since fergie took over was built on players that came through the youth system at the club or were bought fairly young and developed at the club, but most were brought through the youth system.

wengers ability to find players in the transfer market make profit from them FAR exceeds fergies and most other managers in the premiership.

peter schmeichel - left utd for free
eric cantona - retired
dennis irwin - released as far as i know
Ole Gunnar Solksjaer - probably coulnt give him away after his injury
steve bruce - retired

well theres ur bargains mate, profit made £0

wenger could have sold viera before for more money of course, but either way he still won throphys with him in the team over 9 years AND made a big profit, not something i recall fergie doing often

PHB

Lets not make this into a Fergie vs. Wenger fest.
I think he was objecting to the idea that Fergie was 'muck' in the transfer market when he isn't, but few people are as good as Wenger there in the uneathing gems.

Buying established talent is a skill he has yet shown, but I think its needed.
Vieira needs to be replaced with someone of equal talent(good luck) or somebody who is close to that level and will be there in a year or two.
It'll be an interesting couple of weeks now, can't wait till the start of the season.

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

Buying established talent is a skill he has yet shown, but I think its needed

Campbell, Pires or Gilberto? Even Henry or Wiltord.

You dont need to spend big money on a player if you have the ability to turn cheap players into world beaters.

SpAcEd OuT

I think it would be fair to say that Juventus this year will probably have the strongest midfield in Europe (Vieira,Emerson,Nedved,Camroanesi)

That combined with the strike force
(Del Piero,Trezeguet,Mutu,Ibrahimovich)

and the defence (Buffon,Thuram,Cannovaro,Zambrotta)

that team seems unstoppable!

SteM

el rabitos wrote:

fergies eye for picking up a bargain in the transfer market are well documented as being muck tbh.

Gotta laugh at some of the **** posted on this forum sometimes :rolleyes:

I'd have to agree with the others who say that £13.75m for PV is a bargain for Juve, I would have valued him at closer to £20m. There's no doubt Fabregas looked a very good midfielder but I think they'll miss Vieira's drive next season.

Wonder who they'll pick up to replace him. The tabloids this morning are talking about Sol + cash for Jenas.

The Muppet

el rabitos wrote:

uniteds success since fergie took over was built on players that came through the youth system at the club or were bought fairly young and developed at the club, but most were brought through the youth system.

Correct and I have to say it refreshing to see that point made by a non United fan. Usually they try to make out Fergie baught his success.

el rabitos wrote:

wengers ability to find players in the transfer market make profit from them FAR exceeds fergies and most other managers in the premiership.

peter schmeichel - left utd for free
eric cantona - retired
dennis irwin - released as far as i know
Ole Gunnar Solksjaer - probably coulnt give him away after his injury
steve bruce - retired

well theres ur bargains mate, profit made £0

The reason for that is that when United find an exceptional talent, unless there is diciplinary problems they keep them at the club until the end of their top class career as is the case with all those listed. United are not a selling club and would certainly never sell their best players for a pittance.

wenger could have sold viera before for more money of course, but either way he still won throphys with him in the team over 9 years AND made a big profit, not something i recall fergie doing often

Viera was given away, he is easily worth a lot more than they got for him. Either he did a deal last year to stay one more year with the assurance that he would be let go on the cheap this summer and so get a better contract for himself or he is crocked .

Roddy23

According to As Marca we have bought BAptista for 20€million.
Heres the link http://www.as.com/articulo.html?d_date=&xref=20050715dasdaiftb_24&type=Tes&anchor=dasftb

Its in spanish, but I think the general gist through a translator page is that we are on the verge of getting him.

elbow316

Yeah, the signing of Baptista will be announced later today, that 20million went straight from Juve -> Seville.
THE BEAST!!!

Bannor

It hasn't happened yet - Barcelona have first option on the player, if they decide to match the Arsenal offer they will get the player. Barca will decide this morning - they may let the player go with a view to getting Henry next summer.

qwertyup

Pete Gill ~ Football365.com

For the first summer in five years, a 'Vieira to leave Arsenal' saga wasn't plausible. And yet a £14m bid - less than half of what was offered 12 months ago - has now persuaded the Gunners to sell. Arsenal apparently wanted £14m more than they wanted Vieira.

Actually, that should probably read '£8m' because of a clause in Vieira's contract which stipulates that he is entitled to £6m compensation if Arsenal decided to sell.

Has anyone seen this mentioned elsewhere? It boggles the mind if Arsenal have let him go for just £8m

johnor

I thought Baptista wanted to stay in spain to get a citizenship or something? I've never seen Baptista play, can he adapt to the premiership and will he be as influencial as Vieria was?

Roddy23

Seen it, but unless that is part of his Wages, then the deal doesn't make much sense.
Unless that 6million is part of money he weill get over the 5years, then I can't understand how arsenal have let him go £8million, doesn't add up.

qwertyup

I would assume that the £6m is some sort of compensation included in his contract should he be sold without placing a transfer request, or something similar. Either way it seems a ****tacular deal for the Gooners.

Unless they've pulled a Woodgate on Juve...

PHB

Baptista is a forward.
Also he seems set on staying in Spain to get citezinship, and is also apparently strongly linked to Barca

elbow316

Baptista is signing for Arsenal, I can guarantee you that.
Seville have agreed a 3m euro deal for Maresca from Juve, Baptista is finalising personal terms with Arsenal.

elbow316

By the way, the report thats just been put up on Sky's website about Seville waiting on bids for Baptisa, is from yesterday's Marca.
Today's edition reports the Arsenal deal

seabee

PHB wrote:

Baptista is a forward.
Also he seems set on staying in Spain to get citezinship, and is also apparently strongly linked to Barca

I thought he was a midfielder - everyone just things he is a forward because he scored a load of goals last season.

~Rebel~

nope he usede to be a midfielder till he was 21 and moved to sevilla. then they tried him up front since and has bagged them 50goals in the 2 seasons he's been there. Ever watched him play? hes very much a forward now.

PHB

No, every body thinks he is a forward because he played a striker last season!!!!
Thats when he became known on the world stage, because he is a big strong target man who was banging in the goals.
He played in midfield before then, but is now a striker.
If he was bought, he would not be bought as a midfielder, where he did not impress hugely, but as a striker he has.
He is not a replacement for Vieira, taht said, he'd be a fantsatic signing for Arsenal.

Mossy Monk

fingers, toes, knees, elbows

all crossed

mr_angry

I think its worth pointing out that Arsenal accepted Madrid's £23m bid last season. It was in fact Vieira who rejected the move. Speculation this time round suggets that Vieira was gonna leave on a free in 2007. In that case, £14m right now looks like a much better deal.

I'd be very surprised if Wenger buys anyone English. It just doesn't make sense if they are so rediculously over-priced. I'm expecting more info from Bannor about Diarra or someone of similar stature coming in.

TheMonster

mr_angry wrote:

I think its worth pointing out that Arsenal accepted Madrid's £23m bid last season. It was in fact Vieira who rejected the move. Speculation this time round suggets that Vieira was gonna leave on a free in 2007. In that case, £14m right now looks like a much better deal.

I'd be very surprised if Wenger buys anyone English. It just doesn't make sense if they are so rediculously over-priced. I'm expecting more info from Bannor about Diarra or someone of similar stature coming in.

Accoriding to Sky Diarra has just signed for Chelsea - looks like Kenyon i sdoing the same to Arsenal as Utd.