Best distro?

ecksor · 26-06-2001 9:44pm

I don't think so many people have gotten around to OpenBSD yet.

My opinion, useful, but not all it's cracked up to be. Good for small minimum fast installs, and very useful as a gateway type system. Actually, people who prefer OpenBSD over FreeBSD would probably also prefer Slackware over Debian, for roughly the same reasons, but that's an uninformed guess based on the comparisons I've seen on this thread.

FreeBSD is the best free system I've come across yet, but I've yet to try Debian which does sound like it can compete in terms of package management.

I should try a Linux of some sort out anyway, I haven't touched one in nearly two years now. Doubt I'd use it for server systems, but could be a nice workstation OS

dahamsta · 26-06-2001 9:57pm

I don't think so many people have gotten around to OpenBSD yet.

I have a 2.8 CD behind me in a drawer, still in its wrapper...

very useful as a gateway type system.

... waiting for a DSL connection to firewall.

I should try a Linux of some sort out anyway, I haven't touched one in nearly two years now.

A lot's happened in two years.

Doubt I'd use it for server systems, but could be a nice workstation OS

Seems a bit illogical to me, it's at its best on a server. The GUI is still a bit icky, but it's getting there, slowly but surely. It's only a matter of time before Red Hat some up with something stupid like Smart Tags.

adam

ecksor · 26-06-2001 11:02pm

Originally posted by dahamsta:
Seems a bit illogical to me, it's at its best on a server. The GUI is still a bit icky, but it's getting there, slowly but surely.

It's logical when you consider that I wouldn't put Linux on a server by choice. Therefore, I might have use for it as a workstation OS.

As for a lot happening in the last two years, I've been keeping an eye on it, and I'm not that impressed.

What has happened in the last two years that you think should move me back to Linux, out of interest?

dahamsta · 26-06-2001 11:03pm

The same thing can be achieved with Redhat and Mandrake but it would probably take longer.

Nah, not really. You can choose "custom" in the GUI, or you can even go textmode if you want (type 'text' when you hit the boot screen). The "class" installs are rubbish anyway, I never use 'em.

adam

Ronin · 26-06-2001 11:05pm

..I love when ppl go all on the defensive about their fav distro.

If you know your distro and are used to installing it you can install it and lock it down in a matter of minutes.

No distro is perfect, having to recompile the kernel on freebsd to include firewalls rules, just makes it somewhat effortsome as well as the ports collection going off and downloading stuff to install. I like freebsd before anyone starts to flame me

.

RH is now trying to secure its default installs a bit more with iptables outa the box.

Different admins like different distro's cause thats what they know, imho unless you install all the distro's and configure them all on a regular bases and are very familar with them all then you can't really claim one is better then the other.

Personally I like RH, cause thats what I use most. FreeBSD is cool for name servers, which I've built a few of in the last few months. Debian is ok, although I don't know that much about it in the whole install sence of thing. Slackware I haven't touched since I first installed it way back when. Some day I might go back to it to look and see what its like.

We could go back and forth flaming each other over this, but its kinda pointless. For the simple fact, if you running a unix box which is only doing server type things, serving mail, be it sendmail, exim whatever, apache for http, qpopper for pop3, php, mysql all none X apps then most of the distro's will run perfectly well on any of the systems. Some distro's recommend minimum specs, ie ram etc. but that would seem more to do with X apps rather then none X apps.

As to serving webpages, if its only webpages then any distro will serve the pages, you do need to take into account the ram to bandwidth ratio iirc, or maybe my brain has shut down due to having run too much in the gym.

Different admins like different distro's. Different companies use different distro's.

I have another question..which is the best text editor? vi, emacs, pico, joe? Which is the best mta? sendmail, exim, qmail.

We could just go on and on. Tis pointless, everyone has their own opinion's

hmm

Ro

Bard · 26-06-2001 11:07pm

Ok... as the poser of the original question... y'know- I'm just going to give it a while before I go near Linux for the moment... leave y'all to it and whatever distros you like and whatever arguments you like... I think I'll play with BeOS or QNX instead :P

Bard

Fatter, happier, more productive.

jmcc · 27-06-2001 2:35pm

Originally posted by teac!:
Mark Twain, but he was talking about a letter.

It was Blaise Pascal as far as I remember explaining a proof to someone.

As for the abbreviation hang up you have, I suggest you seek psychiatric help.

For the record I do not hang out on IRC channels. You seem to have this idea that anyone who disagrees with you and uses some common abbreviations is by default a script kiddie. It is highly unlikely that you have even read a quarter of the books/articles/text that I have read. You really don't know what distros I have used or misused so your argument about having greater experience founders on the lack of facts. I'd almost expect to see you using the same abbreviation argument in a thread about crypto if there was such a thread. No doubt you'll now probably reply about how I don't know anything about crypto either. [1]

Perhaps you are not in first year but that is the overall impression engendered by your text.

The purpose of these discussions is the distribution of knowledge rather than flamewar point scoring. It is nice to see you actually explaining why you think Debian is a good solution for the problem.

Regards...jmcc
[1] Don't even bother. A Big Lebowski quote would be apt here.

dahamsta · 27-06-2001 2:55pm

Common abbreviations? Maybe where you hang about on some IRC channel somewhere, people use the abbreviation "M$" a lot, I'm sure you fit right in with your buddies there.

I've been using M$ for years, and I reckon I've been on IRC about three times. Phil, you're sounding like a complete dork.

adam

[This message has been edited by dahamsta (edited 28-06-2001).]

teac! · 27-06-2001 4:33pm

Originally posted by dahamsta:
I've been using M$ for years, and I reckon I've been on IRC about three times. Phil, you're sounding like a complete dork.
[/B]

Perhaps if you seen some of the people who do hang about on IRC, you would understand what I mean.

Lets put it this way, it's hardly a mature abbreviation is it? From someone who claims to be mature and writes articles for an online news portal, it shows a level of bias, which a "journalist" shouldn't possess.

Speculating about the "amount of texts" I've read as compared to you, is a load of crap as well. Why not just whip them out and compare them?
1. You have no idea what I've read either.
2. It not the quantity of texts you've read, but the quality of them, as well as the quality of information you actually picked up.

Also on your own admission you have no experience with Debian, that's the part I was commenting about. Yet you still insisted that Slackware was more impressive than it in certain areas. You'll notice I actually said I was in a better position to argue about specifically Debian and Slackwares pros and cons as compared to each other, where exactly did I mention my vast superiority other distributions over you?

You seem to have a tendency to make stuff up. How about discussing and talking about what I actually said, instead of what you think I said.
Phil.

[This message has been edited by teac! (edited 27-06-2001).]

ObeyGiant · 27-06-2001 4:59pm

Dumbest thread ever.

Ronin · 27-06-2001 10:06pm

Right just to stir it up

Slackware sucks, debian is so so sad, one little upgrade and if you forget to deselect one thing there goes X. FreeBSD is your only man for name servers and redhat with apache for all your web serving needs. Mandrake is just an eye candy distro.

All can be configed extactly the way you want to config them.

Bring on the flames..

Ro

Zefren · 27-06-2001 10:38pm

Originally posted by Ronin:
Right just to stir it up

Slackware sucks, debian is so so sad, one little upgrade and if you forget to deselect one thing there goes X.

hey now! just cause i randomly set xlib to be removed is no need to get personal about debain!

your dead in work tomorrow shorty

Dave

teac! · 27-06-2001 11:01pm

Originally posted by jmcc:
Get real! You seem to have some kind of weird obsession with people using common abbreviations. You sound like a typical first year college student that wants to be taken seriously. This isn't college debating, it is the real world where problems have to be solved rather than debated. It is easier to type when discussing something on a BBS or Usenet. The abbreviation may, in your mind, be associated with crackers and script kiddiez.

Common abbreviations? Maybe where you hang about on some IRC channel somewhere, people use the abbreviation "M$" a lot, I'm sure you fit right in with your buddies there.

I'm not a first year college student and your hypocritical statements about me liking to argue are nothing but nonsense.

Terrible isn't it. Did you actually read the first message in the thread? It is about an installation for a P1 (Pentium 1). An old PC. This is not an all singing, all dancing installation. Slackware tends to work well on such old gear. You are of the opinion that Debian would be a good solution but how useful and easy to set up is it for someone coming from a M$ heavy background?

Well, your are of the opinion that Slackware is a "sysadmins/power users" distribution. By that logic surely we can assume the installation is somewhat similar (i.e. you need to be a sysadmin/power user to install it?)? From experience, comparing both the Slackware and Debian installations, they are much of a much, when it comes to "ease of use" and depending on what version of Slackware you are using, I had buggy installations a couple of times (most notably problems with LiLo)

Debian installs perfectly fine on a Pentium 1 (considering I have two Pentium 1's at home, both with Debian installed). This proves the point that your answers are bad and poorly researched. If you don't have experience with Debian installs or Debian itself, why bother commenting? I have experience with both Slackware and Debian (as well as RedHat and a number of other distributions), and am therefore in a much stronger position than you to argue about their pros, cons, attributes and behavious. You aren't.

Debian is relatively easy to get to grips with, anyone without the will to learn, will have problems installing Debian or any Linux system for that matter, not everything is intuitive and you need to know about your machine/PC during different parts of installation, however it's very possible.

Redhat is now a major business - PLC quoted on various stock exchanges but Slackware is not. Marketshare is essential for Redhat's survival. Redhat's bottom line therefore is governed by commercial concerns. Slackware is nowhere near as commercialised as Redhat and is not a publically quoted company. While this is not to say that Slackware is some kind of technological purist's installation, it is not driven by an overwhelming necessity to release or die. There seems to be a desire to get things right before releasing behind Slackware.

However, you could argue about Slackware jumping from 4 to 7 in order to "fool" the public into thinking their release was ahead of RedHat's. i.e. People were assuming RedHat's 6.2 release meant it was a more advanced version than say Slackware 4, Slackware's motives for jumping to 7 (5 and 6 were BETA versions, however the trend beforehand was that BETA versions would be minor numbers, not major) were, to the best of my knowledge, clearly stated as being done for this reason.

I'm not going to get into a debacle of words over RedHat's software, personally the zero releases they produce are a joke, but that's another story.

To paraphrase a writer that someone as literate as you should know: I would have made this shorter but I didn't have the time

Mark Twain, but he was talking about a letter

Phil.

Ronin · 27-06-2001 11:14pm

Haha!

Don't get me started on the whole unstable part of it..

Never mind about the fact that you think joe is the best editor ever..any why? cause it was the first one you where shown/made to use. You've stuck to it ever since..

Oh and how will you get to work without a lift??

bring it!

Ro

dahamsta · 28-06-2001 12:31am

Perhaps if you seen some of the people who do hang about on IRC, you would understand what I mean.

Please don't insult my intelligence Phil, I know the type well.

Lets put it this way, it's hardly a mature abbreviation is it?

I don't think it's either mature or immature. It's just an abbreviation used to signal a dislike of the company. What's immature about that?

From someone who claims to be mature and writes articles for an online news portal, it shows a level of bias, which a "journalist" shouldn't possess.

Ok, JMCC is a bit (ok, more than a bit) opinionated on Hackwatch at times, which is often seen as a breach of journalism ethics (personally, I like a bit of opinion thrown in to make things interesting, which is why I read The Reg (oops, an abbreviation, slap handy!)), but he's hardly posting here as a journalist, is he?

adam

jmcc · 28-06-2001 2:56am

Hey Phil, I am over here.

Try replying to the right message.

Originally posted by teac!:

online news portal, it shows a level of bias, which a "journalist" shouldn't possess.

Do people expect me to be some kind of saint just because I also do journalism. The fact that I have such opinions means that I tend to cut M$ and assorted others press release stuff. If you want bland rubbish that is merely recycled press releases then stick to Web Ireland and Enn. What distinguishes a journo is that ability to put aside personal bias when writing articles.

Originally posted by teac!:

1. You have no idea what I've read either.

Just guessing based on your replies. Purely on probabilities the odds are against you.

Originally posted by teac!:
You'll notice I actually said I was in a better position to argue about specifically Debian and Slackwares pros and cons as compared to each other, where exactly did I mention my vast superiority other distributions over you?
[/B]

quote: "I have experience with both Slackware and Debian (as well as RedHat and a number of other distributions), and am therefore in
a much stronger position than you to argue about their pros, cons, attributes and behavious. You aren't."

Originally posted by teac!:
You seem to have a tendency to make stuff up. How about discussing and talking about what I actually said, instead of what you think I said.[/B]

First off, Phil, try replying to the right message and not blaming other people for stuff they did not write. A lot of what you write is immature, especially your obsession with M$, so I tend to ignore it or perhaps it is directed at other people.

Just getting back to your beloved Debian then: Tell the nice people how good Debian's autodetection of hardware (other than the basics) on installation is when compared to Redhat or Mandrake or even Slackware. And while you are at it, explain which has the easier X Window setup for a newbie. And then, honestly, say whether Redhat, Debian or Mandrake would be better for a newbie coming from a M$ heavy background (sorry Bard for saying that you have a M$ heavy background

). Well Phil, can you honestly say that Debian's install is better than say Redhat or Mandrake for a newbie? Or are you going to reply to Ronin instead?

Regards...jmcc

teac! · 28-06-2001 1:40pm

Hey Phil, I am over here. Try replying to the right message.

Um, I knew exactly who I was replying to, I stuck both replies into the exact same post, what's so weird about that? This bulletin board system isn't threaded, so there's no real point in posting twice. I posted about a point out of adam's post and a point out of your post, I can assure you, it was no mistake.

"I have experience with both Slackware and Debian (as well as RedHat and a number of other distributions), and am therefore in
a much stronger position than you to argue about their pros, cons, attributes and behavious. You aren't."

That's exactly the quote I'm referring to. The bit in brackets, was a by the by, the word "their" was declaring "Slackware and Debian" to be the object, not "Redhat and other distributions" if you get my meaning. I was talking specifically about them two, perhaps on a first read over it you might not have thought that, however after explaining it in my last post, I thought that it would have been fairly obvious.
Obviously not.

Hardware autodetection? Well, most of that is done by the Linux kernel itself, having a more up-to-date kernel is the best way of insuring that. However Debian's installation has a part which allows you to choose drivers from NIC cards etc. So long as you have the name and brand of your card, it's pretty good. It's hardware detection itself isn't good. A while ago however, some discussions were ongoing in incorporating a lot more autodetection into it.
I've only heard of problems, but to be honest, I've only seen one scenario in which Debian screwed up, and that was wiht a dodgy Time machine, and the only problem was that Debian didn't ship with a late enough kernel, while RedHat shipped with a later kernel and therefore booted properly (the bootup used to hang on looking for SCSI devices/interfaces)

For a newbie, the X-Windows setup is easier on Debian. It sets it up automatically basically, it doesn't have Xconfigurator like RedHat but for every package you add to the system, it'll add it to each window manager/systems menu you have. You can choose a variety of window managers and systems to choose from as well, and from my experience, Debian has an easier X-Windows setup than RedHat and definately Slackware (however I haven't used RedHat 7.x).

Again, you were advocating Slackware for a sysadmin/power users point of view. Suddenly you've turned around and started talking about it's ease of use from someone with a Microsoft background? On that note, if you are a sysadmin building a server, you build it to suit your Operating System, not the other way around (hence hardware autodetection isn't a big issue, although it is being worked on very rapidly)

Btw, on Ronin's point about dselect, apt is the package management interface, you shouldn't really be using dselect, considering apt-get will handle any dependency problems you have. Anyways of course, if you have dependencies and then you remove them, you're not going to be able to use the program installed.

Phil.

ecksor · 28-06-2001 1:55pm

For what it's worth, I agree with most of Taec's points, but I'd phrase them differently

No one doubts that jmcc is a well educated, very smart, and very well read guy, but answering arguments with "I'm a very well read guy" is pointless and doesn't inspire the respect he could command with a well reasoned argument.

I don't particularly like his style of journalism, but a lot of people like it (probably because he takes certain points of view that other journos don't want to be seen to be taking, or just disagree with), and that's fair enough, such things are merely a matter of opinion after all ...

This is straying very much off topic.

ObeyGiant · 28-06-2001 3:08pm

originally posted by ObeyGiant:
Dumbest thread ever.

Best distro?

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