Irish drivers are the pits - New Ad Campaign Merged Thread

slumped

mike65 wrote:

Aghhhhhhhhhhhhh! When overtaking you get past as fast as you can in safety.

There is NO excuse for dawling past another car be it on a single carriage or multiple carriage road.

Mike.

Yes Mike, and "in safety" means within the speed limit. Just because you are overtaking in the outside lane does not give you the right to break the speed limit.

Amyone else agree?
Slumped

Mick L

slumped wrote:

Yes Mike, and "in safety" means within the speed limit. Just because you are overtaking in the outside lane does not give you the right to break the speed limit.

Amyone else agree?
Slumped

I don't think you can say that in safety necessarily means within the speed limit, it's not as black and white as that.

seamus

slumped wrote:

Yes Mike, and "in safety" means within the speed limit. Just because you are overtaking in the outside lane does not give you the right to break the speed limit.

Amyone else agree?
Slumped

Nope. Maintaining a speed below the speed limit while overtaking is much more dangerous* than breaking the speed limit to complete the manouver quickly, particularly when you must cross to the opposite side of the carraigeway to overtake. Driving below the speed limit is not the same thing as driving safely.

*Much like being below the speed limit does not necessarily mean you are safe, this is not a hard and fast rule. Clearly if you are overtaking a vehicle doing 100mph on a dual carraigeway, then speeding up to complete the manouver quickly may be more dangerous than maintaining 105mph, for instance. Each situation is different.

slumped

Mick L wrote:

I don't think you can say that in safety necessarily means within the speed limit, it's not as black and white as that.

If everyone drove within the speed limits (even those really annoying ones on the M1 where it drops to 50kph) then things would be safer.

What's not safe is the amount of drivers who drive in the outside lane with faster moving cars in the inside lane.

Here is a letter I submitted to the Irish Times last year but it did not get printed:


"Last Tuesday (9th Novemebr 2004) is a day that will live in infamy or at least for a while anyway. After studying for the theory test, gaining my provisional licence, spending over €800 on 25 hours of driving lessons and sitting the dreaded test, I can now state without risk of correction that I am a fully qualified driver.

What makes me qualified? The little slip of pink paper from the driving test centre that says I am competent – the small handwritten docket that means my car insurance as a 25 year old male, will drop by over 50% next year. The little certificate that means I can legally drive at 70mph (or is it 112.654 kph?) on a motorway having never driven on one before. I decided to try this experience out and so I took to the M1 a few days after my test to see what it was like to be in control of a car at the top end of the speed limit, just because all of us 25 year old males are the speed freaks on our roads and I wanted to be part of ‘that’ big-boy club.

I drove for about 10 miles past Dublin Airport at a constant speed of 70mph. At this stage I thought the speedometer on my car was broken. I felt like a Formula One racing driver whose car engine had blown and I was coasting back to the pits. Over 40 cars and vans whizzed past me in the outside lane doing speeds well in excess of the speed limit. Old men, young women, business men, business women, old women, young men and some Northern Ireland registered cars – all of them driving at speeds which would have been more at home at Mondello Park than on our roads.

Having been in London the weekend previous I could not help but notice the huge amount of speed cameras on the M11 motorway running north out of London. And guess what, cars actually drive at a consistent speed, not over the speed limit but at a steady pace the whole time.

Why are young drivers tarnished in this country as being the speed freaks? Why are there not more speed cameras on our roads? When will the government take road safety seriously? When will the ignorant start driving at safe speeds? Personally I will continue to drive with respect for the speed limits, but to all those drivers out there who do break the speed limit, to those drivers who cause accidents as a result of driving too fast, to those drivers who are forcing my insurance premium higher and higher – shame on you."

Any thoughts??

Slumped

Mick L

On a motorway, to take your example, I feel it would be safer to break the speed limt for the short amount of time it takes to overtake (without taking the piss of course) than have a line of irate drivers behind you. You'll just cause bunching up of faster moving traffic behind you. I know the counterpoint is that there shouldn't BE any faster moving traffic if you're at the speed limit already but there will be for whatever reason. Your point may be valid, but only in an ideal world.

css

The speed limit is 120kph on a motorway, might explain why you were a chicane..

slumped

css wrote:

The speed limit is 120kph on a motorway, might explain why you were a chicane..

Read the thread properly this time - it is dated in November 2004 when the speed limit was 70mph - tut tut tut

ds20prefecture

slumped wrote:

Any thoughts??

Jesus, and I thought I was sanctimonious.

slumped

ds20prefecture wrote:

Jesus, and I thought I was sanctimonious.

Not meant to be sanctimonious, a tounge in cheek view on the amount of ignorant speed freaks who feel the need to constantly break the speed limit :mad:

frenchychristy

i think that the problem is coming from the way irish drivers are educated... Besides being a country where the drink culture is number 1, the irish drivers arent taught properly like it happanes in other countries. France for instance. You must get your theory test before you are allowed to get your driving test. You are only allowed to get your driving if you got your theory test. If you fail your driving test 3 times, you are back to square one and have to go re-do your theory test. By law, a learner driver has to have had at least 21 hours of driving lessons with an official teacher, until then this learner driver is not allowed to drive. Not like over in Ireland where you take 2 hours of driving lesson s and you can drive your luvely Micra and create chaos and potentially fatal accidents...

What about corporate responsibility? Nissan has been chasing in on these new drivers with their Micras and what have they done for the irish roads and irish learning how to drive industry? Nothing... What abotu the insurance besides the fact of making a fat juicy profit?

seamus

slumped wrote:

If everyone drove within the speed limits (even those really annoying ones on the M1 where it drops to 50kph) then things would be safer.

Can't disagree with that, but it doesn't capture the entire problem. Driving above the speed limit isn't the biggest killer on our roads. Inappropriate speed (whether inside or outside the limit) is a big problem, but again, it's still not solely to blame. Poor overtaking kills a lot of people. Drinking-driving again kills a lot of people. Believe it or not, the biggest killer is driving onto the wrong side of the road, and colliding head-on with an oncoming vehicle. Speed is not even a factor. Exceeding the speed limit accounts for just over one-fifth of all fatal collisions. So there's obviously no point in just saying "speeding is bad, m'kay?". It's an overall attitude that needs to be addressed. Four-fifths of fatal accidents are caused by things other than speeding, so clearly there's more at work here.

What's not safe is the amount of drivers who drive in the outside lane with faster moving cars in the inside lane.

Yes and no. It's a problem. But in theory the drivers in the left-hand lane should be moving out into the overtaking lane, and not overtaking on the left. In the eyes of the law, they are also being unsafe (both drivers could be prosecuted for it). I make a point of flashing anyone when I come upon them going slower in the right-hand lane. I've found in Dublin people are atrocious for responding - they just don't look in their rear-view mirrors. Outside of Dublin they're much more aware.

Praetorian

Lots of Irish people are brutal on motorways. When we are learning and doing our driving tests we aren't even allowed practice on them, so it should not come as any surprise that people get it all wrong.

* People not moving over to the left.
* People driving at 65mph ~110 kph in the overtaking lane
* People driving at 50mph ~ 80 kph in the left lane
* Driving up the rear end of the car ahead
* Not indicating when moving left or right

All very annoying :O

nb. The problem is much more noticable on the M1 compared to the M50.

css

slumped wrote:

Read the thread properly this time - it is dated in November 2004 when the speed limit was 70mph - tut tut tut

Yes and by you doing an indicated 70mph, you're more likely to be doing close to 65mph.. so people with gps and calibrated speedo's will be passing you of course as well as the evil speedy's.. I'm sorry I don't agree with the whole anti-speed campaign on motorways, on other roads yes, but not on motorways.

Seth Brundle

a_ominous wrote:

I wrote something similar on another thread. I think it was Victor who pulled me up on it. The ROTR state the fehicle has to be capable of a speed of 30mph (not 50kmph!). Not that the minimum speed is 30mph.

See the following pic...

No vehicles under 30mph

BrianD3

Praetorian wrote:

Lots of Irish people are brutal on motorways. When we are learning and doing our driving tests we aren't even allowed practice on them, so it should not come as any surprise that people get it all wrong.

* People not moving over to the left.
* People driving at 65mph ~110 kph in the overtaking lane
* People driving at 50mph ~ 80 kph in the left lane
* Driving up the rear end of the car ahead
* Not indicating when moving left or right

*Drivers who merge at 40-50 mph
*Drivers who can't be bothered waiting till the hatch markings end before merging and instead zoom across the markings and straight into the overtaking lane
*Drivers who wait till the very last minute to exit off the motorway
*Drivers who miss their exit and then reverse along the hard shoulder
*Drivers doing U turns across the median if there's a gap in the chicken wire
*Drivers who stop illegally in the hard shoulder to answer their mobile/have a picnic/have a piss etc.
*Drivers who get a flat tyre and instead of pulling their car as far off the road as possible they leave it near the edge of the hard shoulder resulting in their big arse sticking out into the traffic as they change the wheel.
*pedestrians, cyclists and vehicles incapable of reaching 30 mph using the motorway

Macy

BrianD3 wrote:

*Drivers who merge at 40-50 mph

The merging would be the most dangerous thing I see on motorways and dual carriageways.

I know it's not strictly motorway, but the prime example would be people joining from Enniskerry on the N11 - I regularly see them stop rather than use the length of the joining slip.

I would add, there's also the problem with people in the inside lane not moving out to let people merge, or not leaving enough space if they can't move out...

Beëlzebooze

Of course Government agencies are going to say that speeding is the cause of most road deaths, because that means the owness is on YOU and ME to change.

The fact of the matter is that drivers need to be educated as they start to drive. Driving is a serious matter, you have the ability to KILL if you do not do it correctly. So if somebody want to learn to drive they must go to school to learn. Learning to drive by experience is only good enough if you have a certain level of proficiency, if you have mastered the basics, i.e. you have a license. And the lisence is only given (just like in any other school) if you pass the exams.

So no more provisionals , driving lessons become compulsory, and like in germany, if you fail 3 times, you go for psych eval, to see if you should be driving in the first place.

Alun

I know it's not strictly motorway, but the prime example would be people joining from Enniskerry on the N11 - I regularly see them stop rather than use the length of the joining slip.

That one really gets my blood boiling as well. The slip road is plenty long enough to get up to speed, but like you say, people get to the left turn and then just stop and wait for a gap before even moving off. I seem to recall that "the powers that be" have also added an extra yield sign and line just there as well that reinforces this behaviour.

Mind you, nowadays I always now take a good long look to the right when coming on there, because on more than one occasion I've witnessed people apparently turning off to Enniskerry, but then shooting straight across the cross hatching at the junction onto the slip road, presumably because they haven't managed to merge successfully at that stage. The same thing regularly happens on the other side of the road at the Herbert Road junction.

Boggle

Having been in London the weekend previous I could not help but notice the huge amount of speed cameras on the M11 motorway running north out of London. And guess what, cars actually drive at a consistent speed, not over the speed limit but at a steady pace the whole time.

Whats better: Someone driving at a sped they feel comfortable and safe (given their experience) at or someone glued to 70 paying more attention to their speedometer than the road?

Surprisingly enough someones speed wont cause an accident - mistakes cause accidents.

Alun

Having been in London the weekend previous I could not help but notice the huge amount of speed cameras on the M11 motorway running north out of London. And guess what, cars actually drive at a consistent speed, not over the speed limit but at a steady pace the whole time.

Whilst that may be true on routes that have large numbers of speed cameras, on other motorway routes you'll find the average speed (when feasible) to be more like 80-90mph. The police won't go near them at speed.

unkel

Alun wrote:

Whilst that may be true on routes that have large numbers of speed cameras, on other motorway routes you'll find the average speed (when feasible) to be more like 80-90mph. The police won't go near them at speed.

Same in the Netherlands. Police is much more likely to let a normal** driver doing 160km/h go about his business and instead remove a retard doing 60km/h from the motorway and give him a massive fine


** Overtaking properly, keeping his distance, road condition is good, etc.

Alun

unkel wrote:

Same in the Netherlands. Police is much more likely to let a normal** driver doing 160km/h go about his business and instead remove a retard doing 60km/h from the motorway and give him a massive fine

** Overtaking properly, keeping his distance, road condition is good, etc.

Unless he's driving a foreign, especially German, registered car! I speak from experience "Normal" average speed on Dutch motorways, when conditions allow (which isn't that often these days), is around 20km/h above the posted limit.

Robbo

Alun wrote:

Whilst that may be true on routes that have large numbers of speed cameras, on other motorway routes you'll find the average speed (when feasible) to be more like 80-90mph. The police won't go near them at speed.

When I lived in England, the generally accepted speed on the motorway was 80-85 mph. I spent most of my motorway time on the M1, M40 and M6.

jd

slumped wrote:

I remain within the speed limit of 120kph so when overtaking another vehicle travelling at 115kph, it can take a little time to get around it.

WRONG WRONG WRONG.
As will be pointed out to you in the road safety campaign starting in the Autumn.
Think back to your lessons for the driving test. If you have to get around a hazard, the examiner is more concerned you get around it safely and promptly, not that you rigidly stick to the speed limit.
jd

GAFF

ds20prefecture wrote:

I cannot stand this line of thinking. A Mercedes and a super tanker crash - who has the better chance? Or should we all buy Ford Explorers? Oh no, they flip like a pancake and explode at the merest sight of another car. I know, let's all buy Hummers. But then what if a truck hits you? We'd better not settle for anything less than this

The SMART car when launched was proven to be safer in both active and passive safety than its contemporary C-Class, despite being 1/3 the weight. Small does not mean unsafe. Big does not mean safe.

And look at the price of a Smart !! Theres plenty of small cars (which are in peoples price range) which are unsafer than bigger ones. Take a crash between eg Passat and Fiat Secentio or 2 Passats both at the same speed, I know which I'd rather be in.

Obviously people aren't going to buy Hummers, but theres many different Safety features available on cars these day, which when VRT is added on become very expensive. People won't spend the money and go for cheap and cheerful to get them around !

unkel

Alun wrote:

Unless he's driving a foreign, especially German, registered car! I speak from experience

You must have been unlucky, no slow retards around

I clearly remember an episode of the Dutch equivalent of "police, camera, action" where the police didn't touch a German reg car doing 160 or 170km/h and instead focused on someone else

jackal

Hella late jumping into this thread, but what the hay....

I noticed this in the times article:

Conor Faughnan of the Automobile Association said the new campaign was timely. “Generally the council has to focus in on the main causes of accidents and these are speed, drink-driving and non-wearing of seat belts.

Yes, the non wearing of seatbelts is a huge and growing cause of accidents... hmm...

I dont know if these boyos in the NSC are related to the Road Policy Division of the DoT, but I wrote a letter in there a month ago saying pretty much everything thats in that article. Now I dont want to take all the credit... but I will. Cheers! They responded in writing a few weeks ago... we will take it on board, yadda yadda... maybe they did?

Hopefully not as snotty as the other fella's letter... :rolleyes:

---

Original Message

---

From: xxxx xxxxx
Sent: 14 June 2005 16:45
To: 'info@transport.ie'
Subject: FAO: Road Policy Division

To Whom It May Concern:

Driving on motorways in Ireland is becoming an increasingly frustrating experience. The Driving Test makes no provisions for motorways, beyond a possible oral test question on the signs signifying a motorway entrance and exit. However, people that pass the Driving Test are suddenly considered qualified to use the motorway – which has rules and etiquette very different to that of a dual carriageway or one lane road. This is a large gap or loophole in the Driving Test system.

Because of this, a lot of drivers seem genuinely unaware of the protocols involved in using the motorways, and I’m sure it is contributing to incidences of “road rage”, careless driving and safety in general considering the speeds inherent in motorway driving. This is especially bad around the M-50 in Dublin, where people that normally do not use the motorway are tempted to use it for convenience to visit one of the large shopping centres that have been built along the its length: Dundrum, Blanchardstown and Liffey Valley.

In the long term, changing the Driving test to incorporate an evaluation of motorway driving skills is essential as more and more of this type of road makes up our national network of major roads.

One suggestion that could be implemented in the short term is to produce an educational commercial for television about motorways. This could be a short 45 second advert, explaining some simple things that a large amount of people driving on the motorways do not seem to grasp, such as:

How and when to use the overtaking lane
Speed when entering a motorway
Allowing cars to enter a motorway and exit a motorway

Regards
xxxx xxxxxx

Alun

unkel wrote:

You must have been unlucky, no slow retards around

I clearly remember an episode of the Dutch equivalent of "police, camera, action" where the police didn't touch a German reg car doing 160 or 170km/h and instead focused on someone else

It's the same in Belgium. I was pulled over so many times in Belgium driving a Dutch registered car, picked out of a whole bunch of belgian cars doing exactly the same speed as me. Why? Because they can extract on the spot fines, that's why. Less hassle, less paperwork. They even escort you to the nearest cash machine, which is always nice and close by, to let you take the cash out to pay them