Noob lookin to buy RC Nitro Truck/Buggy

vectra

I would have to get 2 as one is for myself and one for my son
I am concidering getting them from Australia as they are dirt cheap over there
The 4.6ss is only $399.95 :eek:
Savage 4.6

The T-Maxx is $369.95 RTR
T-Maxx

Plug

The savage 4.6ss comes in kit so you,ll have to build it, also consider you,ll have to buy a radio system ($120.), batterys, fuel, glow igniter, greese and shock oil. :eek: The savage 4.6ss (44+mph)is build for racing while the t-maxx and the 2 other savages are just for back yard bashing but can easly be converted into racing trucks. :cool:
The savage 25 (38+mph) is a rtr and comes with a roto start system (better than pull start), it requires a 7.2 volt battery and charger, glow igniter, batterys and fuel. Savage 21 (35mph) rtr is a step down in performance and cost, it only requires fuel, batterys and a glow igniter.
Lastly the t-maxx (45mph) a rocked ship out from the box. Its the best selling nitro monster truck. It has thousands of after market parts available. It is the cheapest out of the bunch and requires a 7.2 volt battery and charger for the EZ start , fuel and batterys.
www.Towerhobbies.com are one of the cheapest places to buy models, they offer combos for most of the products they sell. They throw what ever is needed in eccept fuel at an extra cost but not as much as if you were to buy all of them sepretly. My t-maxx cost E450 from tower hobbies.
Good luck

vectra

What about one of these ?
.70 engine :eek:
Thunder Tiger

Plug

Are you a biginner in rc? If you are, you might find it hard to start that big 70 size engine :mad: . On the other hand parts for thunder tiger models are easy to get .
The HPI savage is a nice truck but parts are hard to get, as far as I know boyztoys are the only place that do HPI (or do they? ).
Did you see the revo here , class truck probly the best, a bit pricy doh (cheap enough at tower hobbies and model sport )

vectra

Hi Plug
I am not a beginner as I race touring car at the moment. ( Schumacher Mission)

Fiddling with them would not be a problem either as would parts availability because i would be buying all those from the U.K. and beyond
If i am buying anything I reckon it would be from Australia as they seem the cheapest of the lot so far

SLIM19198

I would either go for the T-MAXX or the REVO, just because of the ease of the EZ-START system (plug in and press, all starts), those roto starts are annoying at the best of times!

I have had t-maxx's in the past and have recently graduated to a REVO (which reminds me, i got to finish breaking it in ;-), boy, what a difference! )

If you want cheaper parts and quicker availability with better hop up options, go for the MAXX, the REVO is still in its infancy but it is catching up fast!

dts

I have the Thunder Tiger TSN4 and I have to say that its built to last. Dont know what the trucks are like but I like the cars.

vectra

Well. I will be the proud owner of a T-Maxx this week ( Sorry Slim )

Where do I get decent fuel in Cork ? I have been told to use Tornado 16% by the previous owner.

SLIM19198

Here lies the problem, you cannot get true car nitro in cork, best you can do is Noel Barrets 15% plane fuel (people say there is no difference).

Hobby shops in Ireland will not post nitro fuel (I dunno why, every other country has mail order for it?)

I think Waterford has a LHS that sells 16%

Ask kev dub to pick up some on the way with the t-maxx, will save you a lot of hassle!

vectra

Yeah, Kev is organising a small quantity for me with the truck,
What make of fuel is Noel Barrets stuff ?
The model shop on Waterford sells Model Technics which apparently is crap.
they have it up to 25% I think,
Is it Noel Barrets fuel you use ?
cheers

coolwings

vectra wrote:

The model shop on Waterford sells Model Technics which apparently is crap.

That's funny, becuase Model Technics is the biggest selling fuel in Ireland. So the majority of modellers don't know anything about what is good fuel then? And the 000s of UK modellers too, I suppose?

OTOH Model Technics make many blends of fuel, and I do not know which is sold in Waterford.

The Model Technics glowfuel blends I use now (after trying many different makes and mixes) are:
FYI
I use GX-5 castor to run engines in, and ALWAYS switch to GoGloPlus synthetic twin-oil fuel from then on.
In cars I would use 10-16% (=20% using USA labelling system).
In planes 5%, aerobatic 10-15%, competition pattern F3A or FAI 30%.
In heli: running in 5%, circuits 10%, aerobatic 16%, competition/display 30%

Beginners who are not sure of how to tune it the best are advised to stay with GX castor but just move up the nitro scale, because this GX gives more protection against abusive high temperatures caused by leaning it out too much.

But so long as it is set up properly, GoGloPlus is better. Engine runs cooler, and more power is available. The reason for choosing the individual oils used in GoGloPlus is to keep lub/cooling at maximum, while reducing smoke emissions for health/visibility. The groundbreaking work in this was done by heli wildlife photographers (smoke) and by unlimited boat racers (bad cooling inside boat hull while at extreme power).

In past unlimited race events I have used Model Technics fuel with 35% and 65% nitro with no problems, while others beside me with other fuels had broken pistons, conrods, etc. I NEVER broke a conrod, and my engine still had the original piston/liner when I eventually sold it.
The absence of problems in this extreme type of use, proved to me that my engines were running cooler on Model Technics, AND producing the same power as the others.

You know, if my (full size) car stopped working, I would not complain to Shell or Esso that their petrol was crap. I would notice that nobody else had a problem, and get my engine fixed

EDIT LATER:
1 If the air gets at it .. any fuel will go bad .. because it asbsorbs moisture from the air. Sunlight will degrade the methanol also, slowly. SO All fuels can be turned into "crap" if stored with a loose top, in the sunlight.
2 The darker fuel dyes used in USA made fuels actually absorb sunlight more, and get a good bit warmer on a sunny day, so there are grounds for thinking that they may deteriorate faster than low dye fuels.
3 US fuels put the nitro in and label by weight but since nitro is heavier than the other components, they overstate the nitro content. Your engine sucks the fuel by volume, not by separating it out and weighing it, and taking the right amount of each part.
4 Nitro Labelling Systems. A comparison of 16% US fuel with Euro fuel would be about 12 1/2%.
So 16% Euro fuel (like Model Technics) will produce more power than 16% US fuel. Usually the Model technics will cost a lot less than the US fuel. It usually comes in gallons, but the US fuel usually comes in little 3 1/2 litre bottles. Work the price out per litre and compare. You will use Model Technics from then on if you do.
3 Store any fuel properly. Airtight. Cool. Dark. So as to get the best from it.

coolwings

vectra wrote:

What make of fuel is Noel Barrets stuff ?

I think Noel sells Omega.

coolwings

SLIM19198 wrote:

...you cannot get true car nitro in cork...

Let's clear this up.
There is no such thing as "car fuel".
It is called "glowfuel" .
The propellant is methanol, not nitro.
Nitro is just an additive for performance. But it is no good on it's own.
It is a small percentage of the total fuel. This is why it is called "glowfuel" instead of "nitro" fuel.
As a rule - the smaller the engine - the higher the nitro content should be.

If it is "touted" as "car fuel" then that is just a gimmick to get the uninformed to pay over the odds for it. If you doubt me on this just check out the prices yourself. There is a variance, in Ireland, right now, of 500% in fuel from the cheapest to the dearest, (based on similar grade).
Learn more - spend less.

vectra

@ Coolwings.
Thanks for that very descriptive reply.
So you say that the 16% Model Technics is perfect for the T-Maxx then?
I can get it iv varying sizes from " The Model Centre" in Waterford
I think it is about €29.99 per gallon.
would you suggest getting a gallon or a half gallon ?
The max will be geting used quite a lot. ( probably at least an hour a day until the school holidays are finished ( about 2 weeks time)
Then it will get maybe a 10 or 15 minute run most evenings and another hour or so on Saturdays ( weather permitting)
Cheers

coolwings

Storage ... So far I feel it lasts ok 12 months, if effort is taken it seems to go up to 2 years. But that would be the longest I have ever seen it and still consider it "OK", if you know what I mean, so it is not a recommendation.
I keep a big container (1 gall/4.551 litres) in my garage, and then put a 1/2 gall into a smaller container for outdoors use...this is the one that gets opened during the day, letting humid air in,and spirit vapour out as I use it.
I top up my mobile 1/2 gall bottle to 2/3 full from the main 1 gall container when it is necessary.

And I empty the model's tank after use, cos that fuel goes off the quickest, as well as drawing water from the air into my engine, causing rust. (It's not the nitro that rusts your bearings, it's the methanol sucking water out of the air, so a dry engine (maybe with a couple drops after run oil) won't degrade as fast as the same engine with fuel still in it, while in storage.

Like I said, I don't know which mix Waterford sells. GoGlo ordinary is 15% oil. I want 18% - 20% oil, so I have used Supaglo (lumpy until you get up to nitro of 20% and over), Formula Irvine (excellent but dear), GoGLo Plus (my preference, same oil total as FI, but two oil types not one), Dynaglo (10% oil, not for cars), Duraglo (16% 50:50 synthetic:castor, cars run a little hot on it), Bekra (another mix that has similar characteristics as GoGlo Plus), Helimix (same as GoGlo ordinary) .
Interestingly enough I happen to know that at least two of the major UK hobby shops have specially prepared glowfuel mixes they sell under their own proprietary names, that are almost identical to GoGlo Plus.
I suppose it just goes to show that the really serious shop-guys have learned the same lessons, and found the same solutions to them.
Another interesting thing is that quite a few modellers come to us in www.greenhobbymodel.com and buy pure castor oil or nitro from us so they can tweak their own favourite fuel mix, and make it suit their preferred engine settings (tuning-wise) better. There are more of them than you would think ... generally folks using model engines for many years.

Have you considered "plumbing" your pits fuel bottle. It makes a real difference as the fuel stays the same (doesn't age) while you use it. Its under a fiver for an aircraft fuel tank fittings set to do it. A crashed plane has the tank just lying there. Well worth it IMHO.

vectra

@ Coolwings...
Damn you ( shakes fist)

Now youve gone and got me confused again just when I thought i could go and buy some 16% from Waterford LOL

Of all the above.
If ( and I mean IF) The Waterford shop sells the one you would reccomend could you list them 1 -5 or something like that in the order that I should query about ??
Can you explain a little more on this "plumbing" thing as well ?

Cheers for your time.
Hmm.
One thing.
Could you supply the Fuel and get it sent down to me by Courior or somehow ?
cheers

coolwings

vectra wrote:

@ Coolwings...Damn you ( shakes fist)

Hah hah

vectra wrote:

...youve gone and got me confused again just when I thought i could go and buy some 16% from Waterford LOL

Relax .. .no sweat ... my main point is that the fuel is less important than some people make out it is. They are they ones who overcharge.

Think about it. If I have 16% nitro tuned rich and you have 12% nitro tuned lean, then your carb sucks in more air than mine, and you get your oxygen (to burn the fuel with) from the nitro and the air, whereas mine uses more nitro...both cars go the same speed.

Now I swop glowplugs, from standard to a hotter plug. Suddenly I'm going faster, again. (My plug won't last long, but forget that for the moment.)

Now you swop fuels, from 20% oil to 15% oil. That has less coolant, propellant is a bigger proportion of your new fuel, so you go faster than before. OK?

Do you see that :
Tuining the carb leaner = a hotter plug = higher nitro = less oil in the fuel.
Any one substitutes for any other to raise power.

BUT lets assume your engine is ALREADY running very hot...
Now you lean the carb, there is less oil, more oxygen, temp goes up, power goes up, and lubrication goes down, at the same time. BAD for the engine.
You really should have got a more oil rich mix, then leaned the carb.

Assume your engine is only warm, so its OK to raise temp, as you go for more power. This time you can lean the carb, allowing less oil/coolant, and more air in, to raise the power.

Do you see how they are inter-related? (I might say it clearer on another day. )
When you want more power, the first question is do I put in more nitro (different mix), less-fuel-more-air (lean the carb). NOW second question - what does that do to the engine temp, do I need more oil to cover up the damage done by getting more power?

---

If you let me know what mixes Waterford shop sells I can try to make helpful suggestions. But I wouldn't knock his stuff without having a very hard reason to do such a thing. I guess a different tuning makes any fuel reasonable. But winning a race against someone who has all the rest perfect leaves less room for adjustments, and fewer alternatives.

vectra wrote:

Can you explain a little more on this "plumbing" thing as well ?

Here is an aircraft tank, plumbed with fuel in, air in, fuel out + clunk to pickup fuel from the bottom.
http://www.kavanrc.com/images/zz10027a.jpg
This is the fittings for such a tank here
http://www.kavanrc.com/images/zz10032.jpg
Now take the fittings, drill a hole in your gallon container and fit them, but using two tubes only.
You use a hand/12v pump to fill the model....and when not in use you put the other end of the fuel filler tube onto the air in pipe, sealing the container.
The advantage is that you don't take the top off the container again, except for annual cleaning out.

vectra wrote:

Could you supply the Fuel and get it sent down to me by Courior or somehow ?

If you have difficulties just call Patrick or myself, and let us know. Yes we can. Courier ... possibly, better to get a friend tho. Dunno who is making the trip regularly right now, but for sure there is someone. Waterford sounds OK tho, how far to you? I've not heard any bad about Noel yet. I respect him as he's there a very long time, more into planes I believe.

vectra

Pheew...!!
you're fingers must be sore after that. :eek:

Anyway, I think I am sort of getting the jist of it now.
The shop in Waterford is only 60 Miles from me so it is only like 1 hour from me to there. along with that my wife has relatives living there so I could scrounge a cuppa while down there
They do a 16% and 20% and [25% I think]
He suggested 16% the day I was in there and spoke to him.So I guess I cannot go wrong with a gallon of that.
It will be safe enought to run in it without doing any damage {once I watch the heat?}

I will be in touch anyway and let you know how it goes for me.
alternatively i could go to Noel in Cork ( 20 minutes down the road)
Cheers

SLIM19198

Vectra, I got a couple gallons 16% lying around in my shed, I could give you a half a gallon no probs to start you off (got them with some deal last month, too much for me to use before xmas )

Just give us a shout when you can come to cork!!!

SLIM

P.S.: I never hold a grudge

vectra

Hi Slim m8
I am actually going to Mahon Point next Thursday. I could give you a holler at some stage.
whereabouts are you ?

Thanks

SLIM19198

I am up the northside of the city, up near the water tower!

vectra

SLIM19198 wrote:

I am up the northside of the city, up near the water tower!

Hmm.
I am not familiar with the water tower.
Is that up the hill from Blackpool shopping centre?
I called up that way a couple of times to meet Ken Allen.
anywhere in that area ?
PM further details if you wish (phone number and I could ring you)

cheers

SLIM19198

Coming from blackpool side, i am about a half a mile past the telecom tower (everybody knows that) on the way to the water tower (the thing that looks like a giant icecream), ill pm you directions later on tonight!

vectra

Cheers m8
I appreciate it.
If you think you have way too much fuel I will gladly buy a gallon from you.

CHUCKLEZ

ohh and slim remember the gallon ur gonna give ur brother chucklez

vectra

@ Slim19198

Can you pm me with directions/Mobile number ?
cheers

SLIM19198

sending pm now

vectra

After trying everything in and out of the book it looks like this T-Maxx is "stuck" in second gear.
A buddy of my sons has bought one and they both ran them today. His one clearly had the legs on my sons one on take off but once the speed got up my sons one seemed faster.( higher top speed)
I could clearly hear his buddys one change gears.
As for the nitro...!!
Can't figure the stuff out..
That gallon I got from you {Slim} the maxx runs fine on it.... The sons buddy got 2 gallons in Waterford which his one ran fine but would not work in my sons one at all..( no power) tried tuning but to no avail.
I think I am gonna have to buy another transmission for it and then open his one to see if there is a problem inside. :eek:
By the way Slim... Have you another gallon to sell if I run short
cheers

SLIM19198

Thats more of it now look

Take apart the tranny and have a look, it shouldnt be that complicated (too bad i switched to Revo's, i got a spare tranny here for a revo )

As for the fuel, Im sure we could sort something out!