Sinn Fein calming Ardoyne area

MrPudding

Good question. I alway thought that a good way to end the protest at Drumcree would be to send the dole inspectors in. I mean if you are protesting in a field in the middle of nowhere you are not available for work are you?

MrP

FTA69

If someone gets drunk, breaks things up and attacks people in my neighbourhood, we call the police.

And what would you do if the police were actually escorting these people through and then dragging you away when you protest their prescence?

murphaph

mike65 wrote:

Just watching the non-event, don't any of these people, on both sides, work?!

Mike.

Was thinkin the same myself. Dole bludgers the lot of em. And we need a UI why?

79cortinaz

MrPudding wrote:

I appreciate that, as another poster pointed out, you only have to tell them your name and address but they will probably expect a little more information if you are making a complaint.

MrP
MrP

To tell you the truth i have never ever ever been abusive to anyone in the ruc/psni. ive always answered their questions. there was one time when I was walking home and within sight of our house. the same RUC squad stopped me twice in about 3 mins and both times asked me where I was going, and both times i told them I was going home. On the second occasion I even avoided asking them if they had some collective version of some weird memory problem considering they'd just stopped me moments before and asked me where I was going.

murphaph

79cortinaz wrote:

..stuff..

79cortinaz, tomMK1 whatever it is, can you stick to one username in each thread please.

tomMK1

ive requested the 79cortinaz username be deleted. I was logged in at home here with it so that was a mistake.

btw - read the guide on posting ... things are to be relevant to the topic.

gurramok

MrPudding wrote:

Good question. I alway thought that a good way to end the protest at Drumcree would be to send the dole inspectors in. I mean if you are protesting in a field in the middle of nowhere you are not available for work are you?

MrP

If you say you are from the north, you should know that July 12th is a holiday up there. ie.. the workforce have the day off.

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote:

Why are you directing the parades issue towards Nationalists excercising their right to protest against bigots and Loyalist paramilitaries trapsing through their area hurling abuse?

Nationalists don't have a right to protest in an illegal manner.

FTA69 wrote:

The Orange Order is a sectarian, supremacist organisation and as such has no business marching through a Nationalist area, that's the core issue. Would you belittle a Ku Klux Klan march through Harlem in a similar manner?

I've made my position clear in a number of posts in this thread. If there's anything I've posted that you don't understand, ask me and I'll clear it up for you.

FTA69 wrote:

More importantly, many Orange marches display pendants commemorating Loyalist paramilitaries who actually murdered people from the area, and yet you have the gall to suggest to those peoples' living relatives and friends to "catch themselves on"?

Commemoration of terrorists isn't exactly a one-sided experience in Northern Ireland.

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote:

And what would you do if the police were actually escorting these people through and then dragging you away when you protest their prescence?

Maybe the TV coverage is selective, but I've generally only seen the police escorting the gentlemen in silly hats through, not the drunken hangers-on.

Maybe if Republicans had a more positive attitude towards the police, they'd find the police more open to protecting them from Loyalist thugs, Y'know, pragmatism? Oh yeah, you don't do pragmatism. But everyone else has to.

the_syco

oscarBravo wrote:

Personally, I'd rather they told them to catch on to themselves and feck off home. But that's just me.

Totally agree. The orange bast|ds have no right to go through a republican area, just as the republcan's have no right to terrorize the loylists, but its tit-for-tat, as they say.

oscarBravo

the_syco wrote:

The orange bast|ds have no right to go through a republican area...

What's a "republican area"? Are they defined on a map? Should all Orange Order members be denied the right ever to enter them? All non-Republicans? Anyone wearing a bowler hat?

For people with a stated problem with partition, northern Nationalists sure are awful keen to draw arbitrary borders around the places where they live.

gurramok

oscarBravo wrote:

For people with a stated problem with partition, northern Nationalists sure are awful keen to draw arbitrary borders around the places where they live.

So are northern loyalists to a much greater degree. The amount of flags and kerbstones painted making out their territory is huge on their part.
It works both ways not just nationalists marking territory.

murphaph

gurramok wrote:

So are northern loyalists to a much greater degree. The amount of flags and kerbstones painted making out their territory is huge on their part.
It works both ways not just nationalists marking territory.

Yeah and it looks disgusting. Red, white and blue, green white and orange everywhere. Horrible flags too. God it's an eyesore.

FTA69

Nationalists don't have a right to protest in an illegal manner.

They have a right to defend their integrity and their entitlements by any means necessary.

Commemoration of terrorists isn't exactly a one-sided experience in Northern Ireland.

True, it is shocking how many memorials to the British Army that are dotted around the country. Anyway though, as I said before people have a right to commemorate whoever they want now that the war is over. They don't however, have the right to rub their bigotry in the faces of others. How often do you see us parade down areas we aren't wanted in?

Maybe the TV coverage is selective, but I've generally only seen the police escorting the gentlemen in silly hats through, not the drunken hangers-on

The police escort all participants in the march through the area, they then remain for a few hours afterwards.

What's a "republican area"? Are they defined on a map? Should all Orange Order members be denied the right ever to enter them? All non-Republicans? Anyone wearing a bowler hat?

An area with a majority of Republicans. As you well know oscar, there are no restrictions on what religions or political persuasions can or cannot reside there, otherwise you wouldn't have an SDLP presence in West Belfast. I think a fair line can be drawn at parades of hundreds of drunken bigots lauding sectarian murder of people from the area though.

joe.

I've just been watching the "festivities" on tv. I just seen the lads marching through a town/village, with 1 marcher holding out an orange to the protesters. What the **** kind of reception do these marchers expect whilst pulling these stupid idiotic tricks.

Also there is not a hope in hell that I could hold myself back if these "party-goers" where marching outside where I live doing this kind of sh1t.

There is a way to celebrate your heritage and there is a way to ask for it.

murphaph

FTA69 wrote:

They have a right to defend their integrity and their entitlements by any means necessary.

So you advocate criminal activity, good for you. The Parades Commission are the lawful body charged with deciding if a parade route is acceptable. They deem it acceptable, and it is legal. Blocking the highway is illegal but you clearly have little regard for silly things like law and order.

FTA69 wrote:

True, it is shocking how many memorials to the British Army that are dotted around the country.

Perhaps if you thought about what they and plenty of Irishmen from both sides of the border who joined the British Army fought (Nazism and all that goes with it), you'd realise that the situation in NI isn't that bad afterall.

FTA69 wrote:

Anyway though, as I said before people have a right to commemorate whoever they want now that the war is over.

See above-the British Army and it's members (including thousands of Irishmen down the years) fought lots of good fights, they didn't spring up in 1972 to oppress Catholics and they will be around for a long time!

FTA69 wrote:

They don't however, have the right to rub their bigotry in the faces of others. How often do you see us parade down areas we aren't wanted in?

So a cenotaph to fallen war heroes who died in the fight against a regime that slaughtered millions of jews, homosexuals, gypsies, political dissenters etc. is rubbing bigotry in your face? Don't make me laugh. Oder auf Deutsch, vielleicht?

FTA69 wrote:

The police escort all participants in the march through the area, they then remain for a few hours afterwards.

Hmmm, but you said that drunken louts REMAIN in an area and proceed to wreck the place after a march. So now you're changing your story to the police remaining in an area after ALL marchers have been escorted through.

FTA69 wrote:

An area with a majority of Republicans. As you well know oscar, there are no restrictions on what religions or political persuasions can or cannot reside there, otherwise you wouldn't have an SDLP presence in West Belfast.

Oh how very kind of SFIRA to allow the SDLP to remain in West Belfast!

murphaph

joe. wrote:

I've just been watching the "festivities" on tv. I just seen the lads marching through a town/village, with 1 marcher holding out an orange to the protesters. What the **** kind of reception do these marchers expect whilst pulling these stupid idiotic tricks.

Also there is not a hope in hell that I could hold myself back if these "party-goers" where marching outside where I live doing this kind of sh1t.

There is a way to celebrate your heritage and there is a way to ask for it.

Hmmm, remind me never to offer you citrus fruits. You clearly despise the to a level which would incite violence :eek:

joe.

So a cenotaph to fallen war heroes who died in the fight against a regime that slaughtered millions of jews, homosexuals, gypsies, political dissenters etc. is rubbing bigotry in your face? Don't make me laugh. Oder auf Deutsch, vielleicht?

This isn't what they're comemorating(sp?) today. Lets be honest. They're **** stirring at the very least as much as the other "side".

I heard 1 orangeman say they were being stopped from laying a wreath at a cenotaph by (again)the other side. There's a lot more to this. In honesty that's a minor detail.

murphaph

joe. wrote:

This isn't what they're comemorating(sp?) today. Lets be honest. They're **** stirring at the very least as much as the other "side".

I heard 1 orangeman say they were being stopped from laying a wreath at a cenotaph by (again)the other side. There's a lot more to this. In honesty that's a minor detail.

Joe, the post I was responding to claimed that there were lots of British Army memorials around Northern Ireland. I was just pointing out that they did other things apart from carrying out their role Northern Ireland, things that poster should be greatful for.

joe.

murphaph wrote:

Hmmm, remind me never to offer you citrus fruits. You clearly despise the to a level which would incite violence :eek:

Ah man. I'm no more proud of these "Irishmen" than you are. But in all fairness that's pushing it a lot.Maybe I was a little strong in my words, but throwing an orange in my face under the circumstances with "police" present to witness, would certainly incite a lot of anger.

These people like any people should have every right to celebrate their heritage, but not to antagonise people in the way some of them are.

county

gerry adams(the IRA scumbag who deserves to die)is still british born in britain,considers himself irish,i consider myself a great footballer, does`nt mean i am,death to all IRA scum

joe.

county wrote:

gerry adams(the IRA scumbag who deserves to die)is still british born in britain,considers himself irish,i consider myself a great footballer, does`nt mean i am,death to all IRA scum

You're opinion means as much to me as the smell of orange juice in the morning. Go sleep!

county

joe. wrote:

You're opinion means as much to me as the smell of orange juice in the morning. Go sleep!

but it is my opinion,live with it,happy 12th

joe.

Yes, happy 12th. It was beautiful Irish weather. It wasn't as nice as yesterday but good enough for me.

county

will agree to disagree,happy 13th

MrPudding

gurramok wrote:

If you say you are from the north, you should know that July 12th is a holiday up there. ie.. the workforce have the day off.

I am from the North and I know very well the 12th is a Public holiday. The Drumcree protest, back in the bad days, had a bunch of people living in tents in the field below the church. The OO said that they would stay there until the RUC let them walk home along their traditional route. They stayed there for several years. This is the Drumcree protest I was talking about.

If you like I can scan my passport and NI drivers license and mail them to you to prove my NI credentials?

MrP

tomMK1

oscarBravo wrote:

MMaybe if Republicans had a more positive attitude towards the police, they'd find the police more open to protecting them from Loyalist thugs, Y'know, pragmatism? Oh yeah, you don't do pragmatism. But everyone else has to.

This is a point youve raised a few times and I cant agree with you. To some loyalist raised RUC/PSNI people, it wont matter how polite you are if they regard you as not being of their beliefs. Its sad but true.

murphaph

tomMK1 wrote:

This is a point youve raised a few times and I cant agree with you. To some loyalist raised RUC/PSNI people, it wont matter how polite you are if they regard you as not being of their beliefs. Its sad but true.

Some, but not all. Try being polite and if they don't reciprocate, fair enough-you tried our best. If they do reciprocate then we're building bridges and that's good.

Not aiming this at you tomMK1 but I think that Irish people in general have big issues with authority figures. Laws are seen as 'english' and there to be broken. Likewise, the Gardai are seen as the force that replaced the RIC and as such are pretty much the same bunch of peelers. It's always been seen as acceptable to dodge or bend rules in Ireland. Things like tax evasion aren't frowned upon by many because we just say "ah, sure you'd do it yourself if you could get away with it". The same goes for lots of offences. It does my head in.

murphaph

Well, to return to the thread, it seems whatever calming SF were attempting failed to prevent blast bombs being thrown at the police, who sadly were forced to defend themselves by firing baton rounds for the first time in 3 years. The baton rounds were the new type, and this is the first time they've been discharged in Northern Ireland, apparently they're less likely to kill someone than the previous model. This nonsense was clearly organised by someone, though as the police officer in charge stated, not everyone who was peacefully protesting knew there was going to be bombs thrown at police. The police believe only a minority of idiots ruined it for everyone. 80 police officers were injured by blast bombs and bricks being thrown at them.

Villain

Yes sadly some thugs turned the protest violent, I was listening to a few observers on the radio yesterday who said that while most nationalists would respect Gerry Adams and Gerry Kelly and listen to them when they appealed for calm, some younger hardline republicans saw Adams and Kelly as people who had "gone soft" and weren't willing to fight for the cause anymore. I have to say thats a very sad state of affairs.