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Looking for advice on SSIA and mortgages

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  • 12-07-2005 7:47pm
    #1
    BluE-WinG
    Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭


    I'm looking for a bit of advice, I've an SSIA that will mature in 9 months and will be the maximum amount, roughly enough for a deposit on a property.

    My lease is up in this house in 4 months, and I dont want to rent for another full year... I want to buy a property in 4 months and move in there.

    I realise I cannot borrow against my current SSIA value, however can I borrow against the raw value (- interest, -goverment bonus) ? Will the bank lend me an additional 10 grand to get me off my feet to pay a deposit on a new place? Can I then gaurentee them the SSIA for repayment of that loan?

    I currently have a 20k car loan with them and I'd be looking to do my mortgage through them aswell. What are my options?


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    #2
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    BluE-WinG wrote:
    My lease is up in this house in 4 months, and I dont want to rent for another full year... I want to buy a property in 4 months and move in there.
    If you're at the end of a 12 month or more lease, you may well find that your landlord will be happy to continue on a month-to-month basis rather than losing you as a tenant.
    BluE-WinG wrote:
    I realise I cannot borrow against my current SSIA value, however can I borrow against the raw value (- interest, -goverment bonus) ?
    No, fraid not - that would breach the terms & conditions.
    BluE-WinG wrote:
    Will the bank lend me an additional 10 grand to get me off my feet to pay a deposit on a new place?
    Only if you can show ability to repay and the additional 10k doesn't breach the loan-to-value ratio.
    BluE-WinG wrote:
    Can I then gaurentee them the SSIA for repayment of that loan?
    Nope.
    BluE-WinG wrote:
    I currently have a 20k car loan with them and I'd be looking to do my mortgage through them aswell. What are my options?
    Only if you can show ability to repay and the additional 10k doesn't breach the loan-to-value ratio.


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    #3
    BluE-WinG
    Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭BluE-WinG


    Unfortunately RainyDay you were very wrong, fortuneately for me.

    AIB will let me borrow the entire amount against my SSIA provided I sign a legal document saying I will give them the SSIA.

    Im achieving a 100% mortgage through AIB by doing this, and clearing my car loan. When my SSIA matures, I'll just hand it over to AIB.


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    #4
    0utshined
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭0utshined


    Actually Rainyday is correct on all points, in the general case. I would imagine it is your own good standing with your branch/manager that has allowed you to do this though I was under the impression that you couldn't use your SSIA as security for a loan though maybe assigning it to another party is different.

    In any event congratulations on getting your mortgage and I hope you find the house you're looking for.


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    #5
    Chipboard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭Chipboard


    BluE-WinG wrote:
    AIB will let me borrow the entire amount against my SSIA provided I sign a legal document saying I will give them the SSIA.

    You absolutely cannot assign an SSIA. You can tell them that you will use the proceeds to reduce the debt but it is a gentlemans agreement.

    The whole reason SSIA's were launched was to take cash out of the economy to keep a hold on inflation. If they let you assign the SSIA to the Bank and borrow against it, the exercise would be futile. Of course it was futile anyway as will be seen next year when the spending spree begins!


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    #6
    Bluehair
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Bluehair


    BluE-WinG wrote:
    AIB will let me borrow the entire amount against my SSIA provided I sign a legal document saying I will give them the SSIA.

    Ditto what chipboard said. It's highly illegal for them to do this. I don't disbelieve you but I'm surprised they'd openly offer this.


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    #7
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    BluE-WinG wrote:
    Unfortunately RainyDay you were very wrong, fortuneately for me.

    AIB will let me borrow the entire amount against my SSIA provided I sign a legal document saying I will give them the SSIA.
    No offence, but I just don't believe this. If you post a scanned version of the legal document (feel free to obscure your personal details) of this 'legal document', I'll make a €100 donation to a charity of your choosing as I eat humble pie.

    If this did happen, it is because there is a rogue mortgage salesman somewhere in AIB who still hasn't copped on to the fact that he can't break the law.


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    #8
    BluE-WinG
    Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭BluE-WinG


    This is very odd RainyDay... They did openly say I could do it, and there would be no problem... I'd say they found a loophole of some sort, or I just stand really well with them (Which I do) I'll keep u posted with my progress.


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    #9
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    BluE-WinG wrote:
    This is very odd RainyDay... They did openly say I could do it, and there would be no problem... I'd say they found a loophole of some sort, or I just stand really well with them (Which I do) I'll keep u posted with my progress.
    It's nothing to do with your standing with them - good or bad. Having thought about this a bit more, I've realised that you could just have lost your SSIA 25% top-up.

    When you started your SSIA, you signed a SSIA2 declaration form (like this one from Northern Rock) stating that 'I will not assign or pledge assets to be held in the account as security for a loan'. When your loan matures (according to Oasis), you will be asked to sign the SSIA4 form which will reconfirm that 'you did not assign or otherwise pledge SSIA assets as security for a loan'.

    But you now have a 'legal document' sitting somewhere in AIB assigning your SSIA. So you've broken the terms of your SSIA and you are no longer entitled to the top up. If Revenue ever put 2+2 together, you'll lose the 25%.

    And if you're convinced that you and AIB are smarter than Revenue and it will never happen to you, that's exactly what all those folks who took out bogus non-resident accounts in the 80's thought. They've been caught, and they are facing heavy bills from Revenue including interest & penalties.

    If you have a copy of this document from AIB, this is dynamite. Charlie Bird would give his right arm for a copy of this document.

    And if you really want a 100% mortgage, go to First Active - they started offering these to FTB's last week. You won't be putting your SSIA at risk over there.


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    #10
    Bluehair
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Bluehair


    RainyDay wrote:
    IIf you have a copy of this document from AIB, this is dynamite. Charlie Bird would give his right arm for a copy of this document.

    Get a copy of the doc they offered you and give Charlie a call. If it's legit you could make your deposit in return for the scoop!


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    #11
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    I forgot to mention one important point - I'd be pretty sure that the document is worthless to AIB. There is a legal principle that you can't enforce a contract to do something illegal, e.g. payment for a contract killer etc. IANAL, but I'd be pretty sure that the same principle would apply - AIB know well that assigning the SSIA is against the terms & conditions of the SSIA so they could not enforce this assignment.

    So you could really do what you like with the SSIA once it matures.


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    #12
    0utshined
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭0utshined


    BluE-WinG wrote:
    This is very odd RainyDay... They did openly say I could do it, and there would be no problem... I'd say they found a loophole of some sort, or I just stand really well with them (Which I do) I'll keep u posted with my progress.


    THey may have said it but you'll most likely find that any document you sign makes no mention of an SSIA but rather that you will need to make a payment of €X next year where X=the expected return from your SSIA. The difference here being that you *could* make the payment from the return on your SSIA but you could also find the cash in some other way.


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    #13
    BluE-WinG
    Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭BluE-WinG


    RainyDay wrote:
    But you now have a 'legal document' sitting somewhere in AIB assigning your SSIA. So you've broken the terms of your SSIA and you are no longer entitled to the top up. If Revenue ever put 2+2 together, you'll lose the 25%.

    I havent done anything yet, thanks for your advice though, I'll be sure to make the right decision.


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