Are the ESB taking the piss?

mike65

Its just been anounced on the day the ESB can announce 7% rise in profits that they are puttin in for a 10% price hike next year, subject to the regulator rolling over.

Whatsmore they want to jack up the connection fee by 100% to over €2000!

from iol

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] ISME has reacted angrily to the announcement by ESB to apply to the energy regulator for an increase of up to 10% in electricity prices.

ISME Chief Executive, Mark Fielding said: "It is almost beyond belief that on the day the ESB announced significant profits of €267m they had the audacity to seek an increase which would effectively hike electricity costs by more than 55% over the last four years, over five times the rate of inflation.

"This is a company that can afford to pay one of the highest average wages in the economy, €250k per person for redundancy, pay workers not to work and still produce profits of the magnitude announced today".

"Unfortunately the vast majority of small businesses are not in a position to consistently seek and be granted price increases that directly add to their profits, as is the case with ESB.

"Instead these companies are forced to absorb dramatic increases in their production costs in the last number of years, including labour, transport and energy.

"A further increase in electricity costs will lead to many of these companies, particularly those involved in manufacturing reviewing their operations, with the consequential negative impact on investment and jobs."

ISME said that "the energy regulator has been prepared to roll-over for its ESB master whenever the whim takes their fancy, giving the impression that they are almost a sub station of the electricity company".

"The regulator has overseen a disastrous term in office, which has culminated in Irish electricity prices going from being among the cheapest in Europe to the highest, within a five-year period."[/font]

Sure prices have risen but that can't account for doubling the connection fee, I presume this is a fixed market like Eircom and the last mile of copper, so no competition and a weak watchdog. Pity us the poor consumer.

Mike.

Dub13

What I cant understand about this Gov is they want the workers to take pay increases of around 4/5% yet they will allow essential utility's to go up by much more....

Sleipnir

What I can't understand is why a public company like the E.S.B. is being run like a private company?
The E.S.B. was set up to provide the people of this country with electricity as cheaply and efficiently as possible. Now, it's being run to make money?

Why? We own it, yet we have no say in how it's run Where are the profits going? Back into the network? I don't see it.
Why does this public company have assets overseas?

Why do they continue to tender for contracts abroad when they need a 10% price increase here every two years to comply with their basic task i.e. provide Ireland with electricity?

I really just don't understand this company.

tinofapples

Another ****!n example of the joke of a country we live in.

air

Not to mention the money they make! The average wage in the ESB is over 70k PA.
I know lads that could hardly read / write that make up to 90 in a good year.

Tazz T

This really belongs in Rip Off Ireland, but I think it's totally appalling, regardless of the price of a barrel of oil, that the government is allowing electricity prices to rise way above the rate of inflation.

Originally, the reason was to raise competition and that failed completely. Only one company is offering an alternative to ESB for residential customers and, even then, they aren't even advertising it. i found out by contacting the power companies who were offering cut price deals to businesses that www.chpower.ie will offer electricity to residential customers at a discount of 5% on ESB.

Vote with your feet, folks!

Thomond Pk

mike65 wrote:

Whatsmore they want to jack up the connection fee by 100% to over €2000!

I welcome this increase and feel that it hasn't increased far enough, I do however question the basis upon which this 'connection fee' is levied.

The cost of a connection to the network should be based on the cost of provision and a small contingency fee of say 15%. It is currently a one size fits all national flat rate fee which is grossly unfair to 95% plus of the population. For example if someone builds a house a mile from the road the ESB charged 1000 now charging 2000 and they must provide a mile of cable and repair into perpetuity a mile of cable after regular storms. If that persons sister develops 100 apartments in the centre of the neighbouring town they must pass on exactly the same cost to each purchaser despite the cost per connection bearing no relation to that of the house.

mike65 wrote:

Its just been anounced on the day the ESB can announce 7% rise in profits that they are puttin in for a 10% price hike next year, subject to the regulator rolling over.

The reason why prices are rising so fast is that in order to create a competitive market prices need to rise as it simply was not profitable to provide electricity at 2000 prices in 2000. Hence the price rises were not opposed by the government; in effect to make entry to the market potentially profitable to attract other entrants.

This to my mind is ideologically driven as the examples cited always relate to much larger markets such as the UK or US. In this case the government should simply have looked at the scale of the market i.e. 4m and not 60m or 250m plus people and avoided this road which is costing the taxpayer more money in the form of yet another stealth tax.

JTMan

Tazz T wrote:

Originally, the reason was to raise competition and that failed completely. Only one company is offering an alternative to ESB for residential customers and, even then, they aren't even advertising it. i found out by contacting the power companies who were offering cut price deals to businesses that www.chpower.ie will offer electricity to residential customers at a discount of 5% on ESB.

Vote with your feet, folks!

I agree ...it is time for EVERYONE to vote with their feet and switch energy suppliers. Airtricity also offer a residential product. I have just sent a mail to CH Power enquiring about their prices (thanks for the tip Tazz T)

JTMan

1 question ...

Tazz T did you find it easy to switch residential electricity supplier? Any issues? Was it quick?

mike65

I visited both operations mentioned and neither stated the unit price they charge or how much cheaper they are as a % of ESB unit (though I see Tazz I
reckons its 5%). These guys could sell themselves a bit harder methinks.

Mike.

Victor

Thomond Pk wrote:

It is currently a one size fits all national flat rate fee which is grossly unfair to 95% plus of the population.

I'm not sure, there are different country / town rates, certainly for the monthly charge.

Thomond Pk

You are correct that there are very slightly different rates on the bi-monthly standing charge which is a current account charge as such.

In relation to capital cost the rates are identical and bear no relation to either the cost of installation i.e. connection or the multiple future re-connection costs following extreme weather events.

The more dispersed housing patterns are the more staff the ESB need to have for the extreme weather events which contributes significantly to staffing costs and feeds into the price that is paid by everyone whether their property is exposed to elements on the basis of un-necessary elevation and remoteness or is in a town where mutual shelter limits damage.

You would never see a life assurance or insurance company having a general rate in this or any situation which involves different levels of cost and risk .

Tazz T

Thomond Pk wrote:

I welcome this increase and feel that it hasn't increased far enough,

On what basis?

You like paying more for things?

Tazz T

Fungus wrote:

1 question ...

Tazz T did you find it easy to switch residential electricity supplier? Any issues? Was it quick?

Haven't actually switched yet. I'm waiting for an info pack with costs etc...

Victor

Tazz T wrote:

On what basis? You like paying more for things?

The existing infrastructure had a huge deficit, both in the age of power stations and capacity of the grid. It has to be paid for somehow. While the ESB may be showing a profit, they are spending a lot more than that profit on capital investment

mike65 wrote:

I visited both operations mentioned and neither stated the unit price they charge or how much cheaper they are as a % of ESB unit (though I see Tazz I reckons its 5%). These guys could sell themselves a bit harder methinks.

Most of the new entrants will much prefer to have commercial customers rather than the overhead and headache(!!) of lots of residential customers.

asmith

Whilst I'm not particularly happy about this latest price increase either I can kind of understand why it has to be done. For one thing there's the infrastructural changes that the ESB need to make. This costs money and as someone has already mentioned, the cost of this will be much more than the profits the company is showing.

More importantly though the price of electricity needs to reflect the cost of generating the electricity, i.e. the global cost of oil and gas. One of the reasons (and I emphasise one reason) oil, gas etc are getting more expensive is because we're beginning to see and end to what is a very finite resource (I know China’s eating up a lot of the oil but that’s just another reason). The less there is the more expensive these resources will become. If the ESB were to simply absorb the costs of oil and gas and effectively subsidise their customers then nobody wins in the long run. Customers will continue to use more and more electricity and be completely blind to the fact that they're using up the earth's natural resources at an unacceptable rate.

What the government needs to be doing is making it more attractive for customers to use green electricity providers (like Airtricty). These providers should be cheaper and they're the only sustainable option in the long run. Ireland's dependence on imported oil and gas needs to be reduced. If one of the ways of doing this is to pass on global oil and gas price increases to the end customer then I'm all for it.

Thomond Pk

Tazz T wrote:

On what basis?

You like paying more for things?

If you read the entirety of my post you would find that it is because I don't like subsidising people who can afford to build trophy homes on hilltops that I want the costs of connection to reflect the costs of the ESB providing them.

As an urban dweller I pay for more than I should do to subsidise a particular group of people who you can be damn sure that no private entrant will bother with on the existing set of ESB terms. What will happen is that I like many others will leave the ESB network and that electricity prices charged by the ESB will rise still further. This situation was and still is preventable.

djk1000

You'll love this,

I just moved into a new shop premises and did a renovation, The electricity was connected and live when I moved in. I phoned to get the account switched to me but after 4 calls and two letters they have eventually said that there is no record of a live account for the premises and they have no idea why or how I'm getting electricity. The number on my metre doesn't seem to exist on their system either. So now they are sending someone out to see where my electricity is coming from, It's not a dodgy hookup either because I've checked all the ESB seals in the fuse box. Even if they do that they have no records of my metre readings so it looks like I've had free elecricity for three months so far!

Cuauhtemoc

As regards switching to Airtricity residential, the prices are the same as the ESB oddly enough.

Airtricity – Domestic Tariffs (including VAT)
Urban Domestic Rate Per Unit
Day Usage (including 24 hour meters) 13.85c
Night Usage 6.15c
Standing charge – Urban €5.19
Standing charge – Urban Nightsaver €10.99
PSO €2.26
All tariffs quoted are per monthly period. Airtricity charges effective from 1st January 2005.
All prices quoted include VAT at 13.5%.
PSO charges from 1st January 2005: Domestic at €2.26 (inc. VAT) per monthly period.


Must be the dwindling supply of wind
Seriously though is it because of connection to esb's network or what?

Still waiting on CH Power price list and must look into IFA power(though not sure if thats for farmers only)

Tazz T

There's an article in the indo today that states we now pay the highest prices in Europe for electricity before tax. And that's before the 10% increase that's anticipated.

Since the cost of a barrel of oil is the same everywhere, it must be all that infrastructure that costs much more in Ireland than everywhere else.

... or is it the 70K salary of the average worker. :rolleyes:

Paddy20

Anyone got a link to that Indo article, please :eek:

Tazz T

Well, according to the Indo today, they've only been allowed to raise it by 2.5% from next January. Finally the government are doing something about above inflation rises in semi-state organisations. The minister who prevented the 10% rise mentioned that they should cut costs making reference to the average wage of 71K at ESB.

Excellent work! Now if competition would just get off the ground.

Cuauhtemoc

Hmm. CH Power charge 11.57(they reckon 5% savings, i haven't worked it out) per unit but can't offer me a service because i have night saver.

Tazz did you have that problem or have you switched yet?

Tazz T

Nope. I'm Nightsaver also.

So much for that. I think it's a matter of waiting until October when Bord Gais are supposed to be launching their residential service.

JTMan

What about IFA Telecom who offer a 5% discount on the ESB .. Do they accept non IFA members to join?

Just got this email from CH Power

"Our rate for domestic customers is 11.57 per unit with an average annual
savings of 5%. However we do not offer a favorable quotation to domestic
customers who have night usage.

If you wish to email your address to me I will post out a brochure that will
provide you with information about CH Power and which will also include a
customer agreement form.
from: kathy@chpower.ie "

So they charge more for nighttime usage but less for daytime usage ?

Thomond Pk

That was the classic scam Denis O'Brien pulled with Esat back in 1996 with a big advertising campaign based upon 'No peak time charges'

I don't get taken too often but I fell for this one hook, line and sinker paying Eircells peak rate tarriff to O'Brien's company with no off peak discount; all to get a 100 quid off an Ericsson 388.

The phone was a lot more forgetable than the scam and I was gone in exactly 12 months.