Car crash

Cond0r

Boggle wrote:

The claim is against the policy holder not the driver so yeah you can claim a clean driving record even though you crashed. Your mother cannot even though she didn't.

I'm sorry I don't want to throw this thread off topic, but I guess in a way it applies to Webmonkey too, are you 100% sure about this?

Webmonkey

interesting...like Cond0r says, 100% sure about this?

seamus

Cond0r wrote:

On a side note actually could anyone answer this:
If you claim as a named driver on a policy.. the claim is technically against the policy holder right? As far as i can remember, my name never appeared on the claim form. Hence theoretically couldn't I say i haven't had a claim against me in the last 3/5 years?

The liabilty, and therefore claim is against the driver, not against the policy/insurance company. The driver then turns to their insurance company to cover them for the crash, claiming from the insurance company.

Otherwise some people would have two policies, and quote the one that wasn't claimed against when shopping around for a new one.

You are obliged to answer all questions truthfully when applying for insurance. If an insurance company asks "Have you been involved in any accidents in the last 5 years?", then you are obliged to answer yes or no, regardless of whether or not you were at fault for any of them.

landser

sorry for your trouble...

to the OP, i'd be astonished if a claim for personal injury did not ensue following this incident. the fact that you are 100% liable for the incident means that each of the plaintiffs would have a clear path through PIAB. even though none of them were complaining of injury at the time of the incident, a real back or neck injuruy may not manifest for a couple of weeks post accident, and the courts (and PIAB now) take this on board. you'll have at least one PI claim against you, i'd wager.

Webmonkey

I don't think any personal injury claims will come of this. The lady in front of me had a stiff back alright after it but she knows my grandparents personally so she wouldn't do a unneccessary claim or anything like that.
The one in front of her was a Nun, she didn't get the slightest bit injured. She will not claim either. Funny her phone number begins with 087 666
Bit strange huh?

Shane Smith

If it went thru insurance companies and you were found to be at fault, chances are you WOULD be liable for both cars, not just car in front of you (I'm speaking from experience here).

And I wouldn't worry about going that route, if someone did claim of course it gets technical and messy and next upon renewal your premium would increase but its not funny money, in some cases its only a few hundred euro extra.

Some folks just like scaremongering....as bad as insurance companies are they're only half as bad as banks and creditors....

The_Conductor

seamus wrote:

You are obliged to answer all questions truthfully when applying for insurance. If an insurance company asks "Have you been involved in any accidents in the last 5 years?", then you are obliged to answer yes or no, regardless of whether or not you were at fault for any of them.

And there is a central database that all the insurance companies can refer to, to check your claims history out. If you lie, and they subsequently discover your lie, then they are under no obligation to honour your insurance policy.

Shane Smith wrote:

And I wouldn't worry about going that route, if someone did claim of course it gets technical and messy and next upon renewal your premium would increase but its not funny money, in some cases its only a few hundred euro extra.

The amount of the increase cannot be calculated handily. If you fall into a high risk group and are involved in an accident- e.g. male between 18 and 26, then the weighting on your licence from the accident will be a lot higher than it might otherwise be. If you were involved in an accident that involved a large payout, obviously the insurance company view you as an increased acturial risk to them, and they will decide your premium accordingly. If the accident you were involved in did not involve any legal or medical costs- the company may take a more kindly view. Irrespective of the nature of the claim, even your own insurance company will probably not provide a quotation for you until within 30 days of insurance renewal.

While some people may not view an increase of 1500 after an accident, as funny money- its a subjective term, hang in there- you will start to earn a no-claims bonus immediately once again when you go to renew your policy, before too long (and providing you have no further mishaps) it should be back down at realistic levels again.

This accident will hurt you in the wallet, but on the bright side, there were no serious injuries to anyone- that matters more than anything else.

S.

Cond0r

seamus wrote:

The liabilty, and therefore claim is against the driver, not against the policy/insurance company. The driver then turns to their insurance company to cover them for the crash, claiming from the insurance company.

Otherwise some people would have two policies, and quote the one that wasn't claimed against when shopping around for a new one.

You are obliged to answer all questions truthfully when applying for insurance. If an insurance company asks "Have you been involved in any accidents in the last 5 years?", then you are obliged to answer yes or no, regardless of whether or not you were at fault for any of them.

If the claim is made, and to the best of my recollection I dont remember my name ever appearing on the claim forms or anything like that.. does that still mean the claim was against me, and not my mother ie. the policy holder?
Also.. some companies when you ring up.. don't ask about accidents, rather claims against you - to which I could truthfully answer no as the claim was against my mother?

smccarrick wrote:

And there is a central database that all the insurance companies can refer to, to check your claims history out. If you lie, and they subsequently discover your lie, then they are under no obligation to honour your insurance policy.

Because my name wasn't on the claim documentation, would that not mean my name wouldn't appear in this "central DB"?
Thanks for the info either way...

robo

Webmonkey wrote:

Cheers man - will apply this evening.

Sorry to hear about your accident Webmonkey...have been on both sides, although the time it was my fault, it cost about €3000 to fix mine and the other car. So when someone else then banged into me, I didn't take the pi$$, just went for the best quote.

Anyway about the driving test, can you get a letter from work like on headed paper and that will push your test up the line a bit, I know this worked for a friend last year.

Hope it all goes well for you!!! You deserve a bit of good luck

The_Conductor

Cond0r wrote:

Because my name wasn't on the claim documentation, would that not mean my name wouldn't appear in this "central DB"?
Thanks for the info either way...

To be quite honest, I really do not know. You'd have to ask someone who has access to the database to dig a little and let you know.
Hmmmm- under data protection you are allowed to request any data that is held on you for the purposes of correcting any errors......
Might be worth your while exploring it from that angle?

landser

smccarrick wrote:

To be quite honest, I really do not know. You'd have to ask someone who has access to the database to dig a little and let you know.
Hmmmm- under data protection you are allowed to request any data that is held on you for the purposes of correcting any errors......
Might be worth your while exploring it from that angle?

the companies have a database called insurancelink which records all claims. if you settle the claim without involving the companies i.e. without a formal letter of claim being passed to your insurer, then it won't appear on it.

BTW OP, if you haven't told your insurer about the accident, then do it now. failure to notify can allow the insurer to avoid payment under the policy as it is a breach of a condition precedent. Further, the fact that the woman in the first car knows your granny is unlikely to prevent a claim from ensuing. she might think quite differently about it a year down the road, if she is still suffering from back pain. she has two years within which to instigate a claim. PIAB now makes it easier for assessment only claims to go through such as this, so she probably won't even have to think about troubling the courts.

commited

Tough break dude.
take it from me as long as there is no personal injury claim and the damage is less than 5k sort it away from insurance.
You were driving on your provisional, yeah?
Were you displaying L plates and did the guard say anything to you about driving on your own?

commited

Boggle wrote:

The claim is against the policy holder not the driver so yeah you can claim a clean driving record even though you crashed. Your mother cannot even though she didn't.

You're wrong there.
If he does this and has another accident then he'll be screwed as they will discover this little lie.

Boggle

You're wrong there.
If he does this and has another accident then he'll be screwed as they will discover this little lie.

My mate's brother crashed his car which was insured under his mothers name but was still able to insure TDi golf an few weeks later and I'm pretty sure that he had a clean record(same company too as far as I remember). It was a while ago so I'll check with him over the next few days (I'll be talking to him anyway) and let you know if I can confirm this.

landser

Boggle wrote:

My mate's brother crashed his car which was insured under his mothers name but was still able to insure TDi golf an few weeks later and I'm pretty sure that he had a clean record(same company too as far as I remember). It was a while ago so I'll check with him over the next few days (I'll be talking to him anyway) and let you know if I can confirm this.

if it was a few weeks later that he insured the golf, then that's probably because no claim had been initiated following the accident... they usually ask re claims not accidents therefore he would have a had a no-claims history

Webmonkey

Thanks for the information guys.

I didn't think I had to do anything, what letter should I write to them.

It is suspected now that maybe there was an Oil Spill on the Road for the following Reason:

- Exact same day there was a Car Accident exactly same as mine involving same amount of cars and at same location - And no it wasn't my accident Mine was later that evening.

- 15 mins after I had the accident, the roads around had dried Up. Everywhere to be seen was dry except the patch in which my accident occured. It had a dark black oily look.

- 2 People told me they thought there was Oil in the road

- There was a small of Diesel on my shoes even 2 days afterwards as well as on other people's shoes. (My parents, i asked them to smell them )

- The gaurd said to me that when he got out of his car He could barly walk because it was so slippy.

- When I was talking to the gaurd I was trying to keep my feet still as they were falling away from me - the road being so slippy. It was more than the fine weather I believe


It is only today I discovered there had been another accident so this kind of triggered this idea.
What do you think I can do? Would I be able to include this in the formal letter to the insurance company. I think the other ladies suspected something on the road as well. Even if nothing becomes of this, do you think I can get off lightly by mentioning this.

I might call to the Gaurd tomorrow and see what he can do for me.


Thanks for all the information!

Donal

The_Conductor

Webmonkey- I know its crabby luck that it happened- even if there were mitigating factors, given that you drove into the back of the other vehicle, from an insurance viewpoint, you are automatically at fault.

If it goes to an insurance claim- an accident report form will be sent out to you- and you can include the bit about the road being slippery in it.

The Garda's sole interest in the accident is whether or not you were all licenced and insured, and if there is someone injured at the scene to call them an ambulance. Nothing more. He may or may not have made a note of the locations of the cars, he is not required to. In cases where the accident is a rear-ending, more often than not they do not bother.

The fact that there was oil on the road, and that there was a previous accident at the scene, unfortunately means nothing to the insurance company. All they will look at is attributing fault- and they automatically attribute 100% fault to any party who rear-end another party.

Very tough luck, feel free to write your letter, but to be totally honest, apart from the satisfaction of knowing it was not a result of dangerous driving on your part, you will get nothing further from it.

Webmonkey

Thanks man, you've being a great help.

DirkVoodoo

I was involved in a four car pile-up back in 2003.

It was a month before my test as i recall, which had me a bit shaken up as i had to take the test in the same car (repaired of course).

I was the second car from the front.

The details were as follows;

Sitting outside the galloping green pub on the stillorgan dual-carriageway waiting for the green light from those crappy lights before the main whites cross junction.

I had the hand brake up and was sitting out of gear (already in my test mode ) behind an opel vectra (and yes, i could see his wheels). Next thing i know, WHAM! Some guy in an opel something or other slams into a silver car behind me, which in turn slams into me, and i hit the guy in front.

All the usual stuff then; gardai arrive, paramedics checkin if everyone ok, swapping insurance.

Now, my point is as follows yo help you out: As far as i can remember, each person claimed against the person who hit them ( took their details, etc.) but the final claim went against the guy who caused the crash (no oil here, i think he was just speeding and not paying attention in rush hour traffic).

Luckily no one was seriously injured, woke up the next morning and i couldnt get out of bed but aside from a few aches now and again im ok.

As someone said earlier, it will make you a better driver, and if it doesnt then i suggest the bus

commited

Boggle wrote:

My mate's brother crashed his car which was insured under his mothers name but was still able to insure TDi golf an few weeks later and I'm pretty sure that he had a clean record(same company too as far as I remember). It was a while ago so I'll check with him over the next few days (I'll be talking to him anyway) and let you know if I can confirm this.

Well I've been told that I have to declare an accident that I had insured under my mothers name.
If I dont then I'll save 1400 on my insurance - so let me know

Webmonkey

I am going to talk to my insurance brokers Monday and see what to do.

Hotblack Desiato

Webmonkey wrote:

It is suspected now that maybe there was an Oil Spill on the Road for the following Reason:- Exact same day there was a Car Accident exactly same as mine involving same amount of cars and at same location - And no it wasn't my accident Mine was later that evening.

So why wasn't the spill cleared up after the first accident?
You could, possibly, maybe, have a claim against the council (and/or emergency services, if they attended the first accident) for not ensuring the road was left in a safe condition after the first accident.

Even if your insurer pays out for all the other drivers, you can AFAIK sue for your own car's damage, and loss of your NCB. At least, it might be worth trying. Take legal advice.

(I hate to see local authorities get hit for compo claims as much as the next person, but as a motorcyclist I hate their ineptitude leaving roads in a highly dangerous condition even more)