hi thinking of becoming a computer programmer

sugardaddy

hi i am awaiting my leaving cert results.i have an interest in cmputers but im only new to them and have a lot to learn.i am interested in becoming a computer pogrammer but i have` ent applied to any college or plc courses on computers.i was thinking of starting out doing some online fas courses.what do u all think?and what ones should i start off with.and exactly how complicated are things to understand because i have a freind of a friend who did higher maths and drop out of it in college because he couldnt handle the maths init.im not to bad at maths but i only did ordinary.im going to the libary today to find books on compuer programming.oh and also i found on the fas website that sap and tibco enginerrs are gettin PAID UP TO 400 EURO ,this to me is an astonishing amount of mone to bey paid by the day.so can people give me some advice

Kernel32

If you would like to be a programmer you need to figure out if you like programming. When I was a young fella both my younger brother and I liked computers. He is handy with them still, likes gaming, general configuration and hardware. But no interest in programming and his work is in no way related to computer software development. On the other hand I read the manual to the Amstrad we had and became fascinated with programming. I went into programming and overall I have been extremely happy with my choice of career. Just because you like computers does not automatically translate into enjoying or being good at software development.

Also, forget the money. If you focus on that all is lost. Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of good money to be made but that comes later. I was probably in the biz for 5 years before I really started to see the serious money. Focus on becoming technically skilled, people skilled and on being a professional, after that the money comes.

Mossess

Forget about the money would be my first piece of advice. Most of those jobs are advertised by agencies who are more interested in getting your CV in there door then they are in offering you a interview, so many of them advertise inflated wages or other non existing jobs.

If you are seriously :eek: hot at it and if you lucky it money might come your way. But if you have already done the leaving cert and don't have a couple of languages under your belt, I'd say perhaps jumping into coding might not be the best idea. A very high percentage of people I went to college with are now out of the coding game. Partly because of the lack of jobs.

But, if I haven't put you off then I'd suggest you look up the MCSEs. Don't know much about the FAS options but if I was hiring someone I'd take a MCSE over a FAS anyday, (But a degree/Diplom/Cert would be above a MCSE as well)

Anyway, that's my opinion.
Hope it helps.

Evil Phil

You could learn javascript, just to see what programming is like and if you're into it. If so you can go further if not at least you know. Doing a course in Computers doesn't mean you'll become a programmer though, there's many different fields in I.T. for an aspiring leaving cert student

Mossess

Evil Phil is quiet right. But if it's the money your after then you'd be better off doing a plumbing or fitters course!

Tobias Greeshman

Look forget about the money, dont get me wrong there is a nice amount to be made, but you need a lot of experience in the field and you need to be quite good too. As suggested go and try a few basic languages maybe javascript or vb, and see if you like them. Really its quite hard to get a job in development, if you haven't got a degree or couple of them MCSE or related qualifications I'd say its highly unlikely to get an employer to even look at you, let alone give you an interview.

Perhaps do a PLC course (probably already suggested) and see what you think of it then (Im sure you could get into one easily enough).

Syth

The good thing about programming is that it's something you can do on any computer, so you can easily and quickly get a feel for it and see if you like it. As Kernel32 said, it's not for everyone. Another great thing is that it's something that you can learn all on your own (though it's probably not the quickest/best way of doing it).

I'd suggest downloading either perl or python and working through an online (or from a book) 'introduction to programming'. Doing that will give you a much better idea if you'd like programming than what we can tell you.

Programming is fantastic fun (in my opinion). It's a great sense of satisfaction and aclishment when you make something all on your own.

sugardaddy

thanx i need o find out more abot programming ill try to doenload that pyton thing to see if it can help but right now i need to ask some questions on it.like say i did try the programming and i liked it,what are mcse`s and where can i get info on them?one time on my divx media player i had to find a code to type into the task manager to get it to read an audio codec,i found it interesting researching the internet to find the code and then when i got the right code to work.this would be my only experiance at programming if that.oh and how good at maths would i generallyy have to be

aidan_walsh

sugardaddy wrote:

what are mcse`s and where can i get info on them?

Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer

sugardaddy wrote:

one time on my divx media player i had to find a code to type into the task manager to get it to read an audio codec,i found it interesting researching the internet to find the code and then when i got the right code to work.this would be my only experiance at programming if that.

Well, while (IMO) that would come anywhere near programming (if I understand you correctly, which I doubt), I'm glad you enjoyed researching it. Because that's something you will have to do a lot of in this work.

sugardaddy wrote:

how good at maths would i generallyy have to be

Depends on the field you decide to specialise in when you get that far. You will need to work on your typing abilites by the looks of it though

egan007

sugardaddy wrote:

hi i am awaiting my leaving cert results.i have an interest in cmputers but im only new to them and have a lot to learn.i am interested in becoming a computer pogrammer but i have` ent applied to any college or plc courses on computers.i was thinking of starting out doing some online fas courses.what do u all think?and what ones should i start off with.and exactly how complicated are things to understand because i have a freind of a friend who did higher maths and drop out of it in college because he couldnt handle the maths init.im not to bad at maths but i only did ordinary.im going to the libary today to find books on compuer programming.oh and also i found on the fas website that sap and tibco enginerrs are gettin PAID UP TO 400 EURO ,this to me is an astonishing amount of mone to bey paid by the day.so can people give me some advice

Run RUN NOW!
Na just kiddin - I can't add 3245345 + 456346546 without a calculator these days and im a programmer .....i suppose - I never really thought of myself as a programmer - but i write programs for a living!
Maths is not a requirement - If you want to be a programmer you just need creativity and logic comming out of your ass.
If you want to become a highly paid programmer then forget about any platform specif language i.e. anything the microsoft will sell you. (with the exception of c++ which is not platform specific(queue backlash)
Get some books on Perl it's probably the most versatile language out there for small programs - plus it's very logical and easy to pickup + It's free.....

IF you want to make $$$$$ then google UNIX LINUX and Opensource
If you learn all you can find on those then you will have something that you won't learn in college and you will have an advantage on everyone else who leaves college and finds out the rest of the computer world is using UNIX.

wes

egan007 wrote:

Run RUN NOW!
Na just kiddin - I can't add 3245345 + 456346546 without a calculator these days and im a programmer .....i suppose - I never really thought of myself as a programmer - but i write programs for a living!
Maths is not a requirement - If you want to be a programmer you just need creativity and logic comming out of your ass.
If you want to become a highly paid programmer then forget about any platform specif language i.e. anything the microsoft will sell you. (with the exception of c++ which is not platform specific(queue backlash)
Get some books on Perl it's probably the most versatile language out there for small programs - plus it's very logical and easy to pickup + It's free.....

IF you want to make $$$$$ then google UNIX LINUX and Opensource
If you learn all you can find on those then you will have something that you won't learn in college and you will have an advantage on everyone else who leaves college and finds out the rest of the computer world is using UNIX.

I did computer science in DIT and depending on the stream you can do quite a lot on the varoius *NIX platforms. So hate to say it there are a few grads who know quite a bit about *NIX platforms so i really see there being much advantage there really when a quite a few of us have caught on to this alreayd.

Also as much as i am not a fan of the Wintel platform at times, it is still the biggest player on the desktop with the varoius *NIX platforms being very very far behind. So the rest of the world is by no means using *NIX platforms. Hell i am the only person i know from my class who use's a *NIX platform on a daily basis (i use OS X in this case and Linux on occassion). *NIX platforms and doing well enough on the server side last i checked, but its still very much a Windows world in many aspects with a lot of client machines running Windows.

As the original poster, i would recommend studying Computer Science by doing a cert, diploma, or Degree or study to get some kind of certification.

rsynnott

sugardaddy wrote:

thanx i need o find out more abot programming ill try to doenload that pyton thing to see if it can help but right now i need to ask some questions on it.like say i did try the programming and i liked it,what are mcse`s and where can i get info on them?one time on my divx media player i had to find a code to type into the task manager to get it to read an audio codec,i found it interesting researching the internet to find the code and then when i got the right code to work.this would be my only experiance at programming if that.oh and how good at maths would i generallyy have to be

Yeh, python's a good one to start off with. Depending on what you're doing you might need a LOT of maths, or basically none. My college course is extremely maths intensive; work, not so much.

As regards Unixy things, yep, most servers, and in particular most webservers (>70%) are unixy, few desktops are. Due to short supply, there's more demand for unixy admins, currently.

egan007

wes wrote:

I did computer science in DIT and depending on the stream you can do quite a lot on the varoius *NIX platforms. So hate to say it there are a few grads who know quite a bit about *NIX platforms so i really see there being much advantage there really when a quite a few of us have caught on to this alreayd.

Also as much as i am not a fan of the Wintel platform at times, it is still the biggest player on the desktop with the varoius *NIX platforms being very very far behind. So the rest of the world is by no means using *NIX platforms. Hell i am the only person i know from my class who use's a *NIX platform on a daily basis (i use OS X in this case and Linux on occassion). *NIX platforms and doing well enough on the server side last i checked, but its still very much a Windows world in many aspects with a lot of client machines running Windows.

As the original poster, i would recommend studying Computer Science by doing a cert, diploma, or Degree or study to get some kind of certification.

Sure i have worked with many a graduate that studied unix but being arse deep in a solaris kernel and using it to play mp3's are not teh same.
I said if he wanto to make money to take this option - there is indeed an edge as you said you are the only one using it in your class - who will get the unix programmer job out you the 30 of ye?

I never said Unix was popular as a desktop even though it's set to become just that. What other platform can you download the source code for make a putback and have it tested by engineers? http://www.opensolaris.org/os/

WizZard

egan007 wrote:

IF you want to make $$$$$ then google UNIX LINUX and Opensource
If you learn all you can find on those then you will have something that you won't learn in college and you will have an advantage on everyone else who leaves college and finds out the rest of the computer world is using UNIX.

Hehe, I know lots of people like that! Such a shock to them coming out of college. "Umm, where's notepad?" or "Where's Start?"

That said I'm a .NET developer

PhantomBeaker

Judging by your writing style I'd say that I think, for you, learning python would be a good idea. It'd enforce some fairly strict styles on you - like making sure you indent (Looking at most first years who write code, they can't indent for ANYTHING) and just make sure you're consistent with case and the like.

One good place to start off, regardless of the language might be this link: http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCS/ - it's entitled How to Think Like a Computer Scientist.

As for maths, basically you need to grasp some concepts for the basic stuff. The only reason you really need to know it is so you can write algorithms (which is a very big part of programming, if not all of it) so understanding basic concepts so you know "Ok, I multiply here". Like if you're writing a basic program that does currency conversion, you need to know whether you're multiplying, dividing, adding or subtracting and why. Otherwise, you'll write a program that consistently gives you the wrong answer, and if you can't reason through why it's going wrong, you're screwed.

And as for a course, I'm doing a computer science course. Before that I was in a science course, where I did a computer science module. Some arts modules do a computer science module as well. That's where you learn how to program, and then you can find out if it's for you.

I'm sure some fas courses also cover some useful/interesting ground. I remember seeing one course that I REALLY wanted to do a few years back, demand was quite high for it - it covered C++ and a number of other topics. Basically I knew enough to recognise that it if the tuition was any good, you'd be rightly set up for a good job, if coding was your thing.

At any rate, python could be quite a good one for you.

Take care,
P.B.

scojones

I did ordinary level maths for the leaving cert, only got a C2 in it too, and I'm going into my fifth (and last) year of my degree in Software Development. Maths was compulsory for the first two years, I found it kind of hard, but I got through it

To be a happy and successful programmer you have to forget about money. If you are getting into the programming for the money first, and the job second, then you will not be happy. To be a successful and happy programmer you have to LOVE programming. You'll only figure out if you will love it by doing it. It is hard at the start, getting used to the syntax of whatever language choose to learn first. But after a while you'll get the grips of it, once you have the basics, picking up another language's syntax is easy as pie.

One thing you must be aware of is this: You will be learning new things as a programmer until the day you retire.

wes

egan007 wrote:

Sure i have worked with many a graduate that studied unix but being arse deep in a solaris kernel and using it to play mp3's are not teh same.
I said if he wanto to make money to take this option - there is indeed an edge as you said you are the only one using it in your class - who will get the unix programmer job out you the 30 of ye?

I never said Unix was popular as a desktop even though it's set to become just that. What other platform can you download the source code for make a putback and have it tested by engineers? http://www.opensolaris.org/os/

My bad, misunderstood your original post.
I suspose you make a good point about the UNIX programmer job, now if i could just find some nice grad one's i would be set lol.

Yup, UNIX / Linux is great since you can get your hand on Kernel code (etc.) and recompile and alter your hearts content.

Laguna

Yeah I have to agree, programming does not equal riches, I myself am on the systems management end of computing and whilst not as *exciting* as programming is nicer financially plus being more laid back with slightly less demanding time restrictions. Coding is fun when you're doing something you're interested in, like a project/application on your favourite subject for college, however, you'll find out how much you like programming when you have to code for a topic or project you have no interest in/hate.

Mach

If want to start learning to program,check outhttp://www.cprogramming.com as most OS are written in C/C++ programming.

Kernel32

Mach wrote:

If want to start learning to program,check outhttp://www.cprogramming.com as most OS are written in C/C++ programming.

All of this talk about kernel programming and learning C/C++ because most OS's are written in it is kind of silly. The vast majority of programmers develop business applications. You may have great idea's about developing the killer app that will bring Microsoft to its knees or the next big game because it sounds cool but if you focus on that you could lose out big time. Developing business applications that solve business problems can actually be fun and cool and make you a lot of money.

Sarunas

egan007 wrote:

everyone else who leaves college and finds out the rest of the computer world is using UNIX.

heh, that reminds me of a conversation I had yesterday in work (summer beta testing job) with boss of the dev company(~10 people) whos product I'm testing. I nearly put it/have plans for openbsd mail server(postfix), and the boss says "remember whatever you put in, we will end up supporting. And currently we do not support unix. Just because you learned about open source stuff in college, it doesn't mean its used [in real world
]."

OP: as many people said, do not go into programming because there is/was/might be good money. You would not pass a first year with such attitude.

Personal story: Started (to learn) programming when I was 15/16 in fifth year because I thought it was cool and interesting. It was C that I started with, and could not find any good tools for windows (used some free c compiler that found somewhere) and my net access was limited to few hours in net cafe.

Then had heard about this linux thing, and it being free, and having all the source code with it too. Started playing around with linux, and the amount of stuff that I learned was huge. Moved on, learned more things, and keep on learning now. Now, I finished first year of Computer Applications degree in DCU and found first year programming in java a breeze.

From very beginning, I found this document very useful: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.htm

Edit: Also read http://www.joelonsoftware.com/

Happy Programming!

rsynnott

Sarunas wrote:

heh, that reminds me of a conversation I had yesterday in work (summer beta testing job) with boss of the dev company(~10 people) whos product I'm testing. I nearly put it/have plans for openbsd mail server(postfix), and the boss says "remember whatever you put in, we will end up supporting. And currently we do not support unix. Just because you learned about open source stuff in college, it doesn't mean its used [in real world
]."

Funny that; my summer job's the opposite; not a Windows system in sight

Also, Postfix works on Windows (as do most unixy MTAs)

Draupnir

I don't buy into all this *NIX talk at all, I'm a .NET developer and wouldnt have a clue what to do with a Linux box at all. I still manage to do alright nevertheless.

It all depends on what you wanna do really. I mean, you could be a footballer if you wanted, some players are defenders, some goalies, some strikers. Its all horses for courses.

Good luck learning to program, its good craic!

rsynnott

It's best to know both, and unixy stuff is really very easy to learn... All depends on what you want to do, I suppose.

Draupnir

i've often considered having a gander at it but just never have the spare time really. maybe one day!

my only unix experience would be playing a MUD on Redbrick up in DCU!