linux users will have an even longer wait for adsl then the rest of us

Gladiator

ive been taking a look a the history behind bt and their adsl program, as chances are eircom will follow the same kind of path,

and the usb modems bt supply, which eircom allready supply in trials and ennis.
is totaly unsuitable for linux users,

i know this will be of interest to many of you as theres a growing number of irish linux users.

Catch_22

details as to why ??
link maybe

c22

MiCr0

cuz linux users deserve to wait

Skeptic1

We don't know what equipment Eircom will be using yet. We don't even know if they will stick with their stated plans to launch ADSL in September. They are under no obligation to do so.

If they do launch, then we can find out what equipment they are using. What the ADSL standard is. What the model of the compatible NIC version is and where to get it (possibly second-hand from the US). We could even set up a non-profit "reseller" group. ILUG would have the numbers to do this.

I'm a keen Linux user and I'm not worried at the moment. My main problem is that they are not offering ADSL in some form now.

Gladiator

your quiet right but chances are it will be pretty much the exact same story as england

[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 25-06-2001).]

dahamsta

Alcatel released a driver for their Speedtouch ADSL modem - which is the most popular and most bundled DSL modem out there ('bout 55-60% of market share I think) - about three months ago, after some pressure from UK users (and The Reg of course). The original driver was contributed by a *nix user. The Speedtouch had a serious remote access security flaw (see BUGTRAQ), but I think it's been fixed now. However, Alcatel is in the process of selling their DSL hardware division, so it remains to be seen what way Eircom will go (they usually buy tat anyway - there was a security problem with the original TA's they bundled with ISDN). Wouldn't really bother me either way though, if there wasn't a driver available I'd just buy a crappy old box, install Windows on it and use it as a gateway, firewalling the bejasus out of it into the process. What's a bottom-end second-hand box cost these days? Hundred quid? If that.

adam

Gladiator

if the drivers out that long, how come theres a article in the reg saying it was due out in june,
im not saying anything, i dont know for sure when it came out, but it seems there abite of confusion around this

[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 25-06-2001).]

Hecate

Suse 7.1 has adsl support out of the box, and that was released about 4 months ago.

dahamsta

Because I was wrong.

Alcatel released the driver about a month ago (thought it was longer meself) but the hacker released one before then. And it wasn't a *nix hacker, it was just a hacker. I dunno where that came from. I have a hangover, ok?

adam

Gladiator

acyually just found out, they released a driver last month or so that seem to work, boy are we lucky we didnt get adsl in march

Gladiator

full story here
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/16343.html

the driver story,
the driver was only released this month.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/16854.html

sutty

ROFL

Why would you want to use USB??? (doesn't it have a really bad latincy)????

If you just get your own dsl modem from 3com or something you will be ok. what you want is a NIC version modem

---

Ciaran Sutcliffe
aka: sutty
[HIV]sutty
For a good time goto:
http://www.hotinternetvirgins.com

[This message has been edited by sutty (edited 25-06-2001).]

Gladiator

sutty 3com wont sell directly to people, only stores and retailers,
most retialers only suplly usb modems , its very hard to get one with a rj45 connection,
now if you cant buy one, then you have to use the one that eircom suply, which chances are will be a usb one,

Zee Dude

If your DSL modem doesn't work with Linux then you could always get a DSL router, these cost about £150+ tho.

Netgear do a nice one which has a 4 port switch on it.

JustHalf

Imagine what it's gonna be like for those of use on FreeBSD

I am *NOT* running Linux emulation!

Gladiator

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zee Dude:
If your DSL modem doesn't work with Linux then you could always get a DSL router, these cost about £150+ tho.

Netgear do a nice one which has a 4 port switch on it.</font>

routher are connected to rj45 modems which are extremely expensive and hard to buy,
your pos usb modem will not connect to a routher

Skeptic1

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JustHalf:
Imagine what it's gonna be like for those of use on FreeBSD

I am *NOT* running Linux emulation!</font>

So, you'll be staying on 56K dial-up with per minute billing then?

Canaboid

Joe is talking ****e again.

Gladiator

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Canaboid:
Joe is talking ****e again.</font>

what exactly are you talking about, networks routers need a rj45 (ethernet) modem to connect to the internet, no two ways about it, and these modems range up to four times to price of usb ones.

RJ45 in case you dont know what that is, is the connection on the ends of cat 5 cables, the type that plugs into nics, but is not limited to just cat 5 cable.

if you buy a rj45 modem you dont need to routher you can plug it directly into a nic.

this is what a fair few linux users did, it very expensive


[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 27-06-2001).]

Gavin

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:

Originally posted by Canaboid:
Joe is talking ****e again.</font>

what exactly are you talking about, networks routers need a rj45 (ethernet) modem to connect to the internet, no two ways about it, and these modems range up to four times to price of usb ones.

Can you explain the above please ? What sort of internet connection are you talking about ? ISDN, serial, dsl, what ?

Gav

Canaboid

I must apologise. I was mearly trying to ascertain if Gladiator was Joe. Now I know.
Sorry Glad.

Gladiator

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Verb:
Can you explain the above please ? What sort of internet connection are you talking about ? ISDN, serial, dsl, what ?

Gav[/B]</font>

well i havent looked at isdn only dsl, but in order to connect a adsl modem to a nic or a adsl routher its need to have a rj45 port, modems with rj45 port are called ethernet modem.
like this one http://www.eicon.com/diva2430/
its support both usb and rj45 conections.

Gavin

in that case then routers, do not need an 'ethernet modem' to connect to the internet via dsl. They tend to have that sort of stuff built in. Or else you can purchase a card to put into the router to accomodate different protocols.

Gav

Gladiator

ususally its not routers that have built in modems but modems that have built in routers, if you see something called a router in a shop it wont have a modem normally,

like the speed touch pro, has a built in 4 port router

so to correct you, all dsl router need external dsl modems to connect to the internet, but not all extrenal dsl modems need external routers to share the connection,

it may sound confusion but this was just to clear up Zee Dude were he suggested a netgear router as an alternative to a usb modem, which it is in no way.



[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 27-06-2001).]

Gavin

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:
ususally its not routers that have built in modems but modems that have built in routers, if you see something called a router in a shop it wont have a modem normally,

like the speed touch pro, has a built in 4 port router

so to correct you, all dsl router need external dsl modems to connect to the internet, but not all extrenal dsl modems need external routers to share the connection,

it may sound confusion but this was just to clear up Zee Dude were he suggested a netgear router as an alternative to a usb modem, which it is in no way.

[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 27-06-2001).]</font>

ah i finally get where you are coming from. You have gotten hubs and routers mixed up matey.

The speed touch pro has a built in 4 port hub

An ADSL router will work exactly as required as an ADSL modem provided you use a cross over cable to connect to it.

The Diva that you mentioned, whilst called a modem is essentially a router. Have you ever heard of a modem having an IP ? Thus the reason in order to connect it to your pc you must use a cross-over cable.

Gav

Gladiator

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Verb:
ah i finally get where you are coming from. You have gotten hubs and routers mixed up matey.

The speed touch pro has a built in 4 port hub

An ADSL router will work exactly as required as an ADSL modem provided you use a cross over cable to connect to it.

The Diva that you mentioned, whilst called a modem is essentially a router. Have you ever heard of a modem having an IP ? Thus the reason in order to connect it to your pc you must use a cross-over cable.

Gav</font>

o your totaly right, i see were your coming from,but we seem to be talking about to different types of routhers,
i can remember reading before somewere that referring to an adsl modem as a modem was incorrect as its really a routher.


But were getting back to the different again, this is an adsl routher http://www.targetpc.com/hardware/network/netgear_rt314/

this will not act as a adsl "modem"

that adsl modem i posted is technically a routher allso.
you see the difference im making here.

the actuall name of the speed touch pro is
Alcatel Speed Touch PRO ADSL Router, it isnt a hub

the speed tocuh pro is a routher and will work exacly the same as the modem i posted, But thats not to say all routhers do



[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 27-06-2001).]

Gavin

OK to try and clear things up a bit.

There are DSL modems and DSL routers. Quite a few DSL routers are being labeled at DSL modems incorrectly.

The router will typically have an ethernet connection, however in the case of some, the Diva as linked above, they can also have USB connectors. (probably internally it is all ethernet with an ethernet to USB adaptor builtin). On the other side, it plugs straight into the DSL rj11 socket in the wall. ( phone line )

Some DSL routers will also have hubs inbuilt to allow for other computers to connect directly to it. Should it not have a inbuilt one it is also possible to connect it straight to an external hub. (ethernet obviously, to avoid confusion with USB hubs)

the modems will have either usb or ethernet and will plug straight into a computer from the DSL rj11 socket. In this case, the computer has the public IP.

The essential difference is that the router has an IP whilst the modem doesn't.

Gav


I don't mean to be rude Gladiator, but can you clean up your posts a bit. It's hard to follow what you are saying sometimes. Don't get me wrong, I can be as illegible as the best of em, but get your terms correct. eg, routers, hubs, modems. Cheers

[This message has been edited by Verb (edited 27-06-2001).]

Gladiator

now that is cleared up,

but the routher like the netgear one do the same job as a hub except their smarter, and dont buch the info along the network, which means they are fasters,

these are the routhers im talking about, these will not have internal hubs or rj11 ports.

so now that thats cleared up, any idea were i can buy a speed touch pro,

Gavin

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:
now that is cleared up,

but the routher like the netgear one do the same job as a hub except their smarter, and dont buch the info along the network, which means they are fasters,
</font>

You mean they have switches as a pose to hubs ? ( router is spelt router, not routher. I don't know what buch is even meant to be)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
these are the routhers im talking about, these will not have internal hubs or rj11 ports.
</font>

Yes. They have rj11 ports. How else do they connect to the DSL line ?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
so now that thats cleared up, any idea were i can buy a speed touch pro,</font>

I don't have a very high opinion of that reviewer either. He's a bit simplistic and confuses his terms too much.

Gav

Gladiator

"You mean they have switches as a pose to hubs ? ( router is spelt router, not routher. I don't know what buch is even meant to be)"

no i mean they have router you still dont know what im talking about.

and bunh was ment to be bunch,
a hub send the info request out along the hole network untill it hit the pc that requested it, a routher sends it directly.


"Yes. They have rj11 ports. How else do they connect to the DSL line ?"

that my hole point they dont, your still talking about routhers as in what they call adsl modems.
FFS go look at the netgear router i posted, its doesnt include a modem, it doesnt have a rj 11 port and it does need an external adsl modem/router. thats the type of router im talking about, that is what officaly is a router,

a adsl modem with a built in router or switch is what your talking about.

do you want to take this to email?

Zee Dude

Sorry about causing so much anger and confusion here lads.

A DSL router is not a router really but an interface box between your home network and the modem. This is a box that allows the dsl modem to assign it an ip address and then is acts as dhcp server for your network, or you can configure it manually.

I know that the Netgear one that I mentioned only has RJ45 ports and so won't work with a USB modem, but I'm sure that there are DSL Routers that have USB ports on them.

The Netgear router that I am talking about it the RT314 http://www.netgear.com/categories.asp?xrp=4&yrp=12

Gladiator

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zee Dude:
Sorry about causing so much anger and confusion here lads.

A DSL router is not a router really but an interface box between your home network and the modem. This is a box that allows the dsl modem to assign it an ip address and then is acts as dhcp server for your network, or you can configure it manually.

I know that the Netgear one that I mentioned only has RJ45 ports and so won't work with a USB modem, but I'm sure that there are DSL Routers that have USB ports on them.

The Netgear router that I am talking about it the RT314 http://www.netgear.com/categories.asp?xrp=4&yrp=12</font>

that exacl=tly what i was trying to say, adsl modem arnt really modem and adsl router arnt really routers. confusion at its best lol
anyway, ive yet to see the type of router your talking about in usb form, the simple reason being that their usualy used for home and the like, if some one wanted a to use adsl over a network and how one of those netgear routers they would have to buy a rj45 "modem" but if they didnt they would just buy an all in one like the speed touch

jd

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:
ive been taking a look a the history behind bt and their adsl program, as chances are eircom will follow the same kind of path,

and the usb modems bt supply, which eircom allready supply in trials and ennis.
is totaly unsuitable for linux users,

i know this will be of interest to many of you as theres a growing number of irish linux users.</font>

i wouldn't be surprise if they supplied usb adsl modems. A lot of people wouldn't be comfortable installing a nic internally, and I think it would probably save techician resources if the whole operation could be as "plug and play" as possible at the consumers end. I read somewhere some other provider had the same experience (abroad)
jd

hudson806

So wait up a minute:

If Eircom are going to supply USB as standard (unlikely given that lots of people, not just linux users, will have a preference for Ethernet), just tell them to keep it adn go out and buy an Ethernet model

Or have I missed something?

Skeptic1

For their trials, Eircom are allowing testers to choose between USB and Ethernet models. This means that even if they only supply USB, there is an ethernet version available.

Gladiator

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by hudson806:
So wait up a minute:

If Eircom are going to supply USB as standard (unlikely given that lots of people, not just linux users, will have a preference for Ethernet), just tell them to keep it adn go out and buy an Ethernet model

Or have I missed something?</font>

it is very likely they will supply a usb as thats what BT did and thats and buying an ehternet adsl modem is very very hard, ive searched and searched and i havent found a place in the uk even that sells them

Skeptic1 id be interested in how that works,



[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 06-07-2001).]

Skeptic1

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:
Skeptic1 id be interested in how that works,</font>

I will know more later in the month.

Gladiator

well keep in touch as the model type of the ethernet modem would interest me alot

Cond0r

*shoots Gladiator for straining his eyes to beyond their limits*

flamegrill

a friend in the states recently got ADSL and this is the hardware his ISP provided him
http://www.efficient.com/products/routbus.html

hudson806

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by flamegrill:
a friend in the states recently got ADSL and this is the hardware his ISP provided him
http://www.efficient.com/products/routbus.html</font>

Efficient Networks make some of the best DSL routers around - I've used the SDSL version of that router, and its ****hot (and expensive)

I think they're more than a little difficult to get hold of without subscribing to a DSL service, though.