compassion

solas

I wanted to talk about compassion earlier this week, especially in response to the current events in the world and I'm really looking for your opinions on this one.
Personally I would have been a very compassionate person and a lot of that had to do with my sense of spirituality. I'm not sure if one follows the other but I was very open emotionally and for all intents and purposes this mechanism seemed to promote spiritual understanding. (ooh and certain "psychic" abilities)
if y'know what I mean...

Recently I've become aware at how incompassionate I've become. No doubt there are various reasons as to why..which I wont really go into here but in loosing that sense of compassion I've also seemed to close the door on my sense of spirituality. I no longer have any sense of deeper connection with humanity but I'm getting used to the numbness...

So essentially in my mind spirituality (or religions for that matter) cannot exist without compassion, or perhaps one is just another name for the other.?
as you can see I'm sort of confused..but I thought I would make the most of this forum and see if anyone can help..or just offer your thoughts on being compassionate.





"Compassion is the keen awareness of the interdependence of all things." --Thomas Merton

"Compassion is the ultimate and most meaningful embodiment of emotional maturity. It is through compassion that a person achieves the highest peak and deepest reach in his or her search for self-fulfillment." --Arthur Jersild

"Compassion is not sentiment but is making justice and doing works of mercy. Compassion is not a moral commandment but a flow and overflow of the fullest human and divine energies." --Matthew Fox

"The whole purpose of religion is to facilitate love and compassion, patience, tolerance, humility, forgiveness." --H.H. the Dalai Lama

solas

I guess no one else feels compassion is an integral part of their spirituality then

Kevin_rc_ie

can i say it's fundamental, imo, to christianity?

stevenmu

solas wrote:

I guess no one else feels compassion is an integral part of their spirituality then

We're just not compassionate enough to bother answering.

I see what you mean though. Compassion could be seen as kind of an emotional link letting you feel what other people feel and putting youself in their place.

I had a load more to say, but it's all gotten mixed up in my head, I'll try and untangle it all and post again later :mad:

solas

I had a load more to say, but it's all gotten mixed up in my head, I'll try and untangle it all and post again later

I know the feeling..

can i say it's fundamental, imo, to christianity?

maybe its the just christian in me assuming its integral to spirituality.

Oryx

I think its difficult in the modern western world to keep a sense of compassion towards others all the time. You have bad days, someone is nasty to you, your work is going badly, all this makes it harder to find the peace inside yourself that is neccesary to feel peace towards everyone else. All I can say is that like a wave, it ebbs and flows. I think that when we can look at our enemies (or work colleagues that tick us off) and feel compassionate and recognise their humanity we are getting there. Its hard work, but I think everyone on a spiritual path is fighting the same battle. Im currenty reading the Tibetan book of living and dying, and even though I cant relate to a lot of the buddhist theory, it helps a lot.

stevenmu

Ok, I think I've got my thoughts on this straightened out a bit.

Me on another thread wrote:

I like to think of my mind as being the sum of my brain and my spirit. I kind of think of our subconcious minds as being like the gateway between our spirit and our concious mind. Sometimes when I concentrate I can almost 'see' the thoughts swirling around my subconcious and follow them through to my concious mind.

I think that some of our emotions/feelings that are 'presented' to our concious mind come from the part of us that equates to our spirit or soul or whatever other word you want to apply to it. By conciously deciding to block out some of those emotions or feelings we are conciously deciding to ignore some of what our spirit is communicating to us, and after a while the information just stops being sent.

The best analogy I can think of is that when I was younger I had a stutter, well more of a stammer really. What used to happen is that as I was saying something my mind would be racing ahead or splitting off in tangents thinking about other things and the part of my brain controlling what I was saying would get confused about what it was doing. To control it I thought myself to follow through thoughts coming from my subconcious, through my concious mind and on down to the speech centre. After a while it became a habit and now the thoughts flow smoothly through without me being aware of the process behind it. In the process I seem to have lost the ability to see what's going on in my subconcious. Now that I've written this down it doesn't seem like such a god analogy but maybe it makes some sense.

Like youself, I've found that I have to close myself off compassionatly, there's too many people with too many problems and I'd just drive myself crazy or get seriously depressed if I kept worrying about all of them. I don't want to end up totally cold either though so I'm trying to reach a compromise and just care about the problems that are close to me and that I can do something about. Plus I'm totally avoiding all the really melodramatic people that made it such a problem in the first place, it felt like I was in Eastenders or Coronation St for a while

stevenmu

KatieK wrote:

Im currenty reading the Tibetan book of living and dying, and even though I cant relate to a lot of the buddhist theory, it helps a lot.

Is that the same as or related to the tibetan book of the dead ? I have a copy of that around somewhere but never got around to reading it.

Oryx

stevenmu wrote:

Is that the same as or related to the tibetan book of the dead ? I have a copy of that around somewhere but never got around to reading it.

No its this one Tibetan book

solas

Now that I've written this down it doesn't seem like such a god analogy but maybe it makes some sense.

was that a typo?

solas

I think I figured it out, I think I was taught that being compassionate equated to being ungrounded ( unrealistic) and in order to ground I was required to destroy all compassionate thoughts. (or at least my spiritual peers thought it necessary to bring me down to their level of understanding) one or the other.

<edit> its like my brain is now wired to udnerstand that compassion= a bad thing.

Stabshauptmann

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

can i say it's fundamental, imo, to christianity?

Though I know what you're saying, and I do agree that compassion is an important part of christianity as I undersatand it, the phrase "the christian thing to do" bugs the hell out of me because I feel it implies that those of us who arent christians are in some way void of compassion.

solas

I know where your comming from Kaptain but I don't think he was implying that at all, I think it was just a response to my question

me wrote:

I guess no one else feels compassion is an integral part of their spirituality then

and I would agree with him in the sense that comming from a christian background (although not practiscing) it's the part of christianity I remember. (which is funny because most people associate christianity with the catholic guilt complex.)
I think Jesus lifestory was based on compassion...and thats what I remember and I'm thinking now maybe herein lies the problem. When I opened up spiritually it was the element of compassion that I experienced that re opened my interest in the teachings of Christ, because I suddenly got it.
Maybe my understanding of compassion is overated because of my upbringing.

Stabshauptmann

solas wrote:

I know where your comming from Kaptain but I don't think he was implying that at all,

I know what he was implying and I agree. But on a side note, that phrase bugs me.

The number one thing I like about christianity is the simple message love thy neighbour. Im dissappointed that over time all the rules and complex doctrine crept in. Jesus's life was about helping others and selflessness as far as I gather

solas

found this earlier, sounds like what I'm talking about.

Compassion Fatigue is a more user friendly term for Secondary Traumatic Stress Disorder, which is nearly identical to PSTD, except it affects those emotionally affected by the trauma of another (usually a client or a family member).
The American Psychiatric Association’s diagnostic disorders manual (DSM IV (APA, 1994) notes that Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is only possible when one is traumatized either directly (in harm’s way) or indirectly, as a parent. Both may experience trauma, though different social pathways. The latter pathway is called Secondary Traumatic Stress (COMPASSION FATIGUE). There are few reports of the incidence and prevalence of this type of stress reactions. However, based on secondary data and theory analysis, Burnout, Countertransference, worker dissatisfaction, and other related concepts may have masked this common problem (Figley, 1995). Vicarious traumatization, for example, refers to a transformation in the therapist’s (or other trauma worker’s) inner experience resulting from empathic engagement with clients’ trauma material. . .[and] vulnerable to the emotional and spiritual effects of vicarious traumatization. These effects are cumulative and permanent, and evident in both a therapist’s professional and personal life (Pearlman & Saakvitne, 1995, p. 151).

I've spent the last 6 years working in social care situations, the last person I dealt with was a rape victim (abused as a child) and It's like I still haven't gotten over the trauma. I hope its not a permenant thing. I'm really at the tsage now where I would like to just let it all go.

stevenmu

solas wrote:

was that a typo?

Maybe a freudian slip ?

stevenmu

solas wrote:

I hope its not a permenant thing. I'm really at the tsage now where I would like to just let it all go.

I'd guess that's a fairly common thing in your line of work, it's something some peopl can just naturally deal with, but if you talk to others you work with you'd probably find some of them have similar feelings, and there may be services you could avail of to help. It's worth remembering that even with all the bad people doing bad things out there there are still plenty of good people, like yourself, out there trying to do good.

Dagon

I think one of the primary aims of any worthy spiritual path is deep compassion without *attachment*.

"I've found that I have to close myself off compassionatly, there's too many people with too many problems and I'd just drive myself crazy or get seriously depressed if I kept worrying about all of them. I don't want to end up totally cold either"

I think it is possible for one to be compassionate, especially within and outside of meditation, without clinging and clutching to ones own reactions to the constant suffereing that is present in life.

This is one of the ultimate goals. And this is *so* difficult.

I think when you find you've wept in meditation, you have been touched by deep compassion. But to be able to be *constructive* after this... to bring about a transformation from this deep awareness of suffering, full of positive action, full of love and peace within the boundary of compassion, you will have touched upon one of the great experiences of your spiritual practice.

But it's much easier said than done, believe me

Dagon

[Edit]
I think the more the layers of the ego get torn off and stripped away, compassion becomes less of a problem (very gradually). If you are experiencing compassion through the veil of your own ego - your ideas, your beliefs, your intellectualisations, your learning, your past experience - then it is difficult.

If you can silence the mind, and let the ego whittle away.. then you're onto something. But the ego keeps on reacting, keeps on experiencing not what *is*, but the *idea* of what is, based on old information tha is actualy useless.

McGinty

I personally believe that most people confuse compassion with kindness. In my experience, whilst compassion is another form of love, it can sometimes be very tough. Compassion can be many things such as listening to a person in need, but it can also be to tell a person that they need to take action, even if you incur their anger or dissapointment. Compassion can be cutting the ties from someone because it is for their highest interest.

Compassion also means being compassionate to yourself, using the example of Jesus Christ, yes he went out and healed, accepted all and everyone, but he also took time out to meditate and to tend to himself, there are many examples of this in the gospels. Setting aside the Christian dogma, rules and regulations (which were set up to adminster the church - not teach spirituality) using Christ as an example, he personfies compassion, but he wasn't always kind and he certaintly wasn't namby pamby to the narcisstic types who wish to suck the energy out of others.

Solas, I do believe that compassion and spirituality are intertwined, if you deaden one side, you deaden the other, but I believe once you understand the concept of true compassion you will be able to connect. Even in the teaching 'love your neighbour as you love yourself', in order to love your neighbour, you first have to love yourself, in other words you need to be compassionate to yourself.


Lastly, I'm only beginning to learn and understand the true meaning of compassion and how to apply it, but the above is a little of what I've gleaned from books and experience.

Dagon

I mirror those sentiments McGinty.

I think it's true that in order to know God, you have to know yourself. So first you know yourself, and a transformation should occur. Then you will be able to become selfless when you are helping others.

If you are contantly trying to escape from your own misery with outward things, you won't be of much help to others.

solas

Thanks for the replies folks, some very wise words
McGinty I think you hit the nail on the head, I took a holiday and I feel much better, more centred and focused and reconnected. All is well.

I'm liking this spirituality board. :P

Oryx

Nice one McGinty. Wise words indeed. I wish I could put my thoughts together so succinctly.

McGinty

blushing, thanks for the compliments

judi

wow!! your really confused. i do think that spirituality and compassion do come hand in hand. most people who are spiritual are very compassionate. to have compassion can either be very good or very bad. i myself am a very compassionate person and often feel empathy for others. i also think that we all have more than enough pain in our own lives to bear without bearing other peoples pain. i have learnt this the hard way! sometimes the ways of the world and the current events and past events can really make my blood boil and even bring me to a tearful state, but at the same time there's not really that much that i can do about it, the world is just to big for me to take on but while there are people like us with compassion left in the world (which is rare in this day and age) we can make a small difference, every little helps remember. i dont think that you have lost your compassionate side but maybe have misplaced it. the fact that you even posted this thread speaks volumes. if your compassion was gone you would of just said "f**k it, i really dont care" but....you didnt because...you care!

solas

well..I got to the stage where I didn't care but I think it was about setting boundaries.
Being able to stand back has helped regain perspective and helped put my priorities in order.