HDSL on a Private Wire ??

Gavin

Myself and my brother were talking about this a few months back alright. One of the guys in my brothers work got a leased line straight to his house from work. Around 500 quid i think it was... could be wrong. So yeah, he then installed the hdsl equipment no problems.

Mind you, they knew their **** inside out, the company he working for being ones that makes routers.

Gav

Sonic

just some quick questions

I was talking to a cable & wireless rep maybe 18 months ago and he offered the company i work for a cool solution to get data access between 2 sites way cheaper than a commercial leased line.
Problem is he has since left and when i enquired about the soloution he offered i was told that there is a good chance it wont work, but they wont tell me why it may not work.

the solution is that we get as private wire between 2 sites, a private wire being a normal analogue line going through the exchange between the 2 sites. this line however is only powered by the exchange, you can only make a coll from one end to the other, as the exchange does no "processing" of calls on it.

anyways hook a HDSL modem to either end with a router to route traffic between the 2 network switches in either office. i was told depending on the line quality between 512k and 2mb, i even have the original 18 month old quotation stating this would work but the new rep and new engineers sya there is a good chance it wont.

anyone have any ideas how problems that could occur with this?

toil

I think it is called a 'tyline' or 'ti-line'.
Think it is 400 poudns a month and that may dependon the distance.

Dont know what you mean by hdsl?

Gavin

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by toil:
I think it is called a 'tyline' or 'ti-line'.
Think it is 400 poudns a month and that may dependon the distance.

Dont know what you mean by hdsl?

</font>

http://www.dslreports.com/information/kb/HDSL

Why, do VA not make routers that can handle HDSL.. hahahaha

Gav

elexes

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by toil:
Think it is 400 poudns a month and that may dependon the distance.

</font>

its 550 a month

---

what type of world will we live in when there is no world ?

zenith

This £400 per month thing is b0llox. Sorry, guys, you're wrong.

We're running two HDSLs at the moment, connecting three sites (one has two running in, one from both of the others.)

We use cisco 1700s with WIC cards as our routers between the points, but you can use a linux box on each end if performance does not have to be 100%. The important bit is the HDSL 'modem', the model we're using is RAD.

http://www.rad.com/

Bull Cara installed it for us, and the rads were about £1100 for the pair installed.

What you need to order for this is a 'two-pair unconditioned copper circuit' from eircom. That's if you want four-wire ethernet, though you can run HDSL on two-wire with the right RAD. They circuits work out at about £300 PER YEAR. And don't tell the fskers what you want it for. Tell them you're setting up a taxi company, and you want people to be able to phone back to base.

Our HDSL is running for about eighteen months, and we've had not a problem. That's no problem, not 'a few problems, easily fixed'. No problems.

Handy tip, you've got to be within about 5km of copper from where you're matching up to. So, you can't be more than about 2.5km from the exchange that'll join the pair up.

If anybody's in Cork, I'd be delighted to show them it working.

zenith

http://www.rad.com/products/family/hcd-4/hcd-4.htm

This is pretty much what we're using. We're about four miles away from each other, so we're getting 2Mbs. Check out the simple graph.

po0k

Sorry, i'm just fgetting a grasp on the actual uses of broadband (out side of massive patch/pr0n/warez downlaods and gaming).
When u say sites, is taht as in office buildings? Is there any chance a consumer could use this?
Can you connect to the internet with it or is it strictly intranet?
£300 a year for 4MBPS compared to £60x12months (barring hardware) is nice.

zenith

Hi,

When I say sites, I mean office buildings, yep.

As for consumers being able to use it, if you can drop a HDSL box into a mate's house who is running ADSL, or if you live close enough to your workplace (and are senior enough) to be able to syphon off their leased line, then yeah, you can use it at home.

At the moment, it's not fat always-on pipes we're looking for: it's always-on pipes! Lots of us would be very satisfied with 128k (hardly super-fast), if it was flat-rate, always on.

Gotta go, gotta get a flight to Dublin.

The Cigarette Smoking Man

If you throttled the bandwidth on those, would you be able to increase the distance?

Would it still work if you had to go through more than one exchange?

hudson806

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The Cigarette Smoking Man:
If you throttled the bandwidth on those, would you be able to increase the distance?
</font>

Not really - it mainly depends on the attenuation on the line (usually roughly proportional to distance). You can possibly stretch it slightly on a good line. The best HDSL setups can sync over a distance of about 6km (decent copper required)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Would it still work if you had to go through more than one exchange?</font>

Sorta. You need the copper pairs to be cross-connected in the exchanges without touching a line card. Assuming you can find a telco that can/will do that($$$, I assume, since they need to find some unconditioned copper running between the two exchanges), teh total distance still can't be any greater than about 5km. So, now that I think about it, no.

[This message has been edited by hudson806 (edited 14-08-2001).]

darraghrogan

Talk about the mother of 5 year bumps...anyone have any experience of this? Or maybe a distributor to source some of this equipment from?

Rad tell me:

"The name of the distributor is Cara. We also have an ofice in UK and you can contact Mr. Grant Email: grant@raddata.co.uk tell: 44 118 982 0900"

But I think they may be a proprietary solution - wouldn;t mind being able to use generic dsl modems...

I have to link two buildings about 150m apart for ethernet connectivity and the only wire between them at the moment is a copper pair from an analogue pabx. I should be able to run xDSL over that and use the Ethernet Bridge mode of a dsl modem right?

Thanks,

Darragh

Capt'n Midnight

darraghrogan wrote:

Talk about the mother of 5 year bumps...anyone have any experience of this? Or maybe a distributor to source some of this equipment from?

Eircom have copped on to this and impossible/almost impossible to get private wire anymore , and even then they only guarantee voice quality.

No idea on the DSL gear.

The two buildings are 150m apart, is there any other way of getting another wire through ? Co ax / BNC would get you 10Mb

I take it there is no chance of pulling a new cable in as you pull the old one out

Wireless might be worth a look too, as it could be a lot faster, but you'd need to watch the security aspect.

Laser very fast but not too cheap.

darraghrogan

its all on one private premises - so none of eircom's damned business what we do!

The existing wire is under tarmac and it would be a shame to go digging it up for simple network connectivity. And I doubt I could pull through coax - there's no sign of cable pipes or anything useful like that...

We tried wireless, based on a Belkin Pre-N AP in the building with the network and a D-Link DWL-2100 set to AP Repeater mode, but for some bizarre reason I couldn;t get it to work. Tried setting the AP's to the same channel, then one to CH1 and the other to CH13 - just wouldn't repeat. I must have been doing something wrong but for the life of me I can;t figure out what.

I wouldn't mind trying this private DSL idea - just for my own knowledge. I might give Cara a shout see what they recommend.

We got quoted €1500 for a laser setup - hardly ideal...

Darragh

the Guru

what company did they get the Lease Line from,????? I cant see Eircom allowing 1.5mb speeds via there martis network for the price of a 64k line or are you using dark fibre

That's if you want four-wire ethernet, though you can run HDSL on two-wire with the right RAD. They circuits work out at about £300 PER YEAR. And don't tell the fskers what you want it for. Tell them you're setting up a taxi company, and you want people to be able to phone back to base.

it doesnt matter the the M1020 and m1040 range only allow very small amounts of info over them and the , private wires are not really sold anymore and if they are, they have to go through eircom exchanges and they will be throttled, and private wires work out at e1500 year one and e888 year two.

bushy...

How about a pair of these ?
get an antenna with a pouch in the back for board here ....
http://www.aerial.net/shop/product_info.php?products_id=97&osCsid=d5d4d6a065e78de62cf25aa4dbfbb565
and a routerboard here
http://eshop.cznet.cz/product_info.php?cPath=41_45&products_id=178

be a bit more secure than ordinary wireless stuff cos it will run a proprietary protocol over the air,and be on 5.8ghz

Capt'n Midnight

bushy... wrote:

be a bit more secure than ordinary wireless stuff cos it will run a proprietary protocol over the air,and be on 5.8ghz

proprietary does not mean secure. WEP failed miserably because it was a proprietary standard that was not opened up for peer review.

the Guru wrote:

what company did they get the Lease Line from,????? I cant see Eircom allowing 1.5mb speeds via there martis network for the price of a 64k line or are you using dark fibre

If both ends are on the same exchange then there is a good chance it's the same price for 256Kb as 1Mb - still mad money compared to private wire.

the Guru

If both ends are on the same exchange then there is a good chance it's the same price for 256Kb as 1Mb - still mad money compared to private wire.

Fair point, also there is only one connection charge as its in and out of the same exchange