Batman

TerrorFirmer

Just watched Batman and Batman Returns yesterday.

Haven't seen them in years, but....wow.

They were brilliant, really enjoyable and they really had that comic book feel to them, something I found definately lacking in Begins.

Overall, had a far more enjoyable time watching these then Batman Begins, but of course thats just my opinion.

How do other people find the old and new compare?

Glipmac

I do prefer the older ones, one thing that annoyed the hell out of me was alfred being played by Cain i thought he was too rough round the edges he was kinda like "ya know what i mean mate?" he was too cockney for the roll although he was funny in points... thats what let it down a little bit for me

but the rest was good they kept it true to the storyline, also it was cleverly linked at the end

G :cool:

AthAnRi

I loved the Original Batman thought it was terrific. Especially Jack Nickleson as the Joker. But I have to say I thought the Batman Begins was better. Much prefered the darkness to the film. Bale was brillant as batman. thought he was the best yet. But as MobileInfantry it is only my opinion.

Elmo

1. Batman: The Animated Series
2. Batman: Returns
3. Batman
4. Batman: Begins

The rest are ****. IMO

Pigman II

I'd probably rate the TAS (+ MotP) the highest followed by the new film Batman Begins. They're all top drawer for quality and consistency.

I have a love for the '89 Batman too but that's purely for sentimental reasons at this stage rather than me believing that it is a great film. Batman Returns & Batman 3 are watchable too but Batman4 eh ... never happened ok?

Oh! And don't forget the '66 film either. It's enjoyable on a purely ironic level. 'Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!'

So anyway bottom line is that TAS and Batman Begins are probably the only ones I'd go as far as to recommend.

Elmo

Batman Returns & Batman 3 are watchable too

Batman Returns is IMO the best of the Batman Movies.
Michell Pfifer is excellent as Catwoman, one of the most enjoyable scenes in film of her turning Catwoman.
Danny DeVeto as the Penguin was excellent as well.
And is much dark then each of the four Batman Movies.

Batman Forever
Was watchable only for the Actors it would have been as bad as Batman And Robin.

Necronomicon

I liked the Burton ones alright, didn't like Forever (and obviously Batman & Robin) but I think Batman Begins is the best.
One of my favourites is actually the animated Mask of the Phantasm.

Larianne

Haven't seen Begins yet. Will be going to see it this week. But it will be hard for it to beat the Burton/Keaton films imo.

Yeah don't like the idea of Caine being Alfred the butler, but I shall see...

Glipmac

at least they kept the story line not like in the new catwoman

she go from white to black for a start and they mention NOTHING of batman at all why?!

shacko

Mask of Phantasim rocks, it could do with being just a pinch darker. always loved the show and the 30's retro look of the show. Kevin cnroy rocks as batman. Just the right mix ofchaming playboy and pyscothic vigilante. Plus they use the Danny Elfman score.

Elmo

at least they kept the story line not like in the new catwoman

Catwoman could have been a great sequel to Batman Returns.

Story of Batman has changed for Batman: Begins.

His parents are not killed by the joker, And the joker could come back in a sequel to Batman:Begins, not a great idea since Jack Nicolson won't be playing the joker

Batman:Begins seems to start the franchise from the very beginning changing little bits.

I found Batman:Begins to be slow moving, but interesting.

I heard the Mask of The Phantom was put on the WB shelf so that it would not be release during Batman And Robin. The Producers where not impressed by the really bad movie that the felt that Mask of The Phantom would over shadow it.

Haven't see Mask of The Phantom, would like to see it.

Can you get a full DVD box set of the Animated series?

Goodshape

Have to a agree that something felt lacking in Begins... it just didn't have the visual omph that the burtan films had. I know the whole point was that they were going for a 'real world' look, but a little bit of comic book style wouldn't have gone a miss.

In saying that, I havn't watched the older ones in a good while, so it could be just nostalga. Begins is no doubt a very good film. It just never really felt like 'Batman' for me.

The fight scenes were also fairly crap. Terrible lightning quick cinematography.

ObeyGiant

MobileInfantry wrote:

They were brilliant, really enjoyable and they really had that comic book feel to them, something I found definately lacking in Begins.

To be fair to Batman Begins... Batman has had enough comic interpretations that one can say they were merely going for a different set of comics - for example, I'm more familiar with the dark, twisted worlds of Year One, Dark Knight Returns and Arkham Asylum than with the cheesy, camp stuff of the 70s/80s. And for me, Batman Begins oozed the kind of atmosphere I found in Dark Night Returns.

Glipmac

my mistake, has anyone read the batman comics?

i just read an exelent one where the Joker gets the Mask (Loki mask) he's exactly the same but with masks power it was insane!

the comics are better than the films anyday, but then again you cant forget the classic ADAM WEST batman film cheese-tastic!

jor el

I liked Batman and Batman Returns. Thought they were very good films. I didn't like Batman Begins though, thought it was a load of rubbish. Won't be getting this on on DVD anymore than I'd consider buying Batman & Robin or Batman Forever :eek: OK, it wasn't that bad but I still didn't think much of it.

aidan_walsh

Elmo wrote:

Story of Batman has changed back for Batman: Begins.

Fixed.

Playboy

ObeyGiant wrote:

To be fair to Batman Begins... Batman has had enough comic interpretations that one can say they were merely going for a different set of comics - for example, I'm more familiar with the dark, twisted worlds of Year One, Dark Knight Returns and Arkham Asylum than with the cheesy, camp stuff of the 70s/80s. And for me, Batman Begins oozed the kind of atmosphere I found in Dark Night Returns.

Ditto ... Batman Begins is what Batman was meant to be. If anyone hasnt read any of the above graphic novels and likes batman then you are missing a treat. Frank Miller is the best in the business (even better than moore imo).

Elmo

Fixed.

I think Batman:Begins is just a reinterputation of Batman. Or Batman was a reinterputation back in 1989.

I don't know if I want to see a remake of Batman in the sequel to Batman:Begins.

As long as Goyer doesn't get to direct we will be fine. (Blade:Trinity :mad:)

Necronomicon

How about a Robert Rodriguez/Frank Miller Batman adaption?

Playboy

Necromomicon wrote:

How about a Robert Rodriguez/Frank Miller Batman adaption?

Frank Miller has already written a Batman screenplay for Warner with Darren Aronofsky attached to direct. The reason it didnt get made was supposedly it strayed too much from the original material. Alfred's character was changed to a giant black mechanic with dreadlocks I heard.

Wacker

Playboy wrote:

Frank Miller has already written a Batman screenplay for Warner with Darren Aronofsky attached to direct. The reason it didnt get made was supposedly it strayed too much from the original material. Alfred's character was changed to a giant black mechanic with dreadlocks I heard.

Also, Bruce Wayne was supposed to be homeless! Shocking.


My favourite thing about Batman Begins is how faithful to the source material it is. Far more so than Batman; I find it bizarre that people are saying otherwise. I think it was damn pretentious of Burton to make the cahnges that he made (specifically, having Thmas and Martha Wayne murdered by the Joker, and having Batman kill. Batman NEVER kills). When Batan came out, the comics had been going for fifty odd years, and Burton should have shown more respect and not made massive changes for short term gains.

kdevitt

I agree completely with Wacker - I loved Batman and Batman Returns, but Begins is the best interpretation of Batman in a movie by a stretch (Phantasm is excellent too).... read Dark Knight Returns, or Year One especially and you'll see that Nolan got it virtually spot on.

The actual movie you prefer is down to your own tastes... I loved the first two as I said above, but being honest theres not much of a story in them, and the movies aren't about Batman but are about the villains - theres little or no back story to Batman himself at all. Jack Nicholson completely stole the show in the first one, and Pfeiffers PVC outfit stole Returns and probably has kept Anne Summers in business ever since.

Elmo

Batman NEVER kills

Who did batman kill in either of the burton movies?

kdevitt

Elmo wrote:

Who did batman kill in either of the burton movies?

Well he strapped a bomb onto a clown and threw him down a sewer in Returns, I'd imagine that caused slightly more than a flesh wound. Shot and blew up heaps of others - in the first movie he uses the batmobile to drive into the chemical plant and blow up everything inside, I seem to recall there being people in it. He basically kills the Joker too, but thats open to debate if you wish. Also uses the afterburner on the car to set someone alight in Returns... can't remember anymore specifically

ixoy

I seem to recall that when the Joker kills Robin in "The Killing Joke", Batman makes a vow to kill him. The significance being, as said, Batman never kills so when he makes such a vow it's very shocking. To have him blatantly murder is totally out of character.

Wacker

Elmo wrote:

Who did batman kill in either of the burton movies?

Shortly before he confronts the Joker fr the last time, he throws a guy down a massive bell tower. There could be no way to interpret that as anything other than killing, along with what was said by KDevitt.

Ixoy, a minor point, but that was actually in A Death In the Family, I think. Robin isn't in The Killing Joke.

monkeyfudge

In A Death in the Family, Superman stepped in and had some words with Batman over that if I remember correctly.

Also at the time the Joker was the Iranian ambasador so he was untouchable.

The Joker didn't really kill that Robin anway (actually they had a vote and the readers wanted him dead) but the Joker beat him up with a crow bar and left him in a building with his mother tied up and a big bomb. Robin was still alive but threw him self onto the bomb to save his mother. Although I think she died anyway.

I don't think I've ever read The Killing Joke... is that the one where the Joker puts Barbara Gordon into a wheelchair?

kdevitt

monkeyfudge wrote:

I don't think I've ever read The Killing Joke... is that the one where the Joker puts Barbara Gordon into a wheelchair?

Yep, shoots her in the back - and tortures Gordon. It was the first attempt at the origins of the Joker...

Elmo

He basically kills the Joker too, but thats open to debate if you wish.

WARNING
IF YOU HAVE NOT SEE BATMAN BEGINS DO NOT LOOK AT THE SPOILER BELOW
WARNING

So is his killing of Liam Neeson's character at the end of Batman:Begins

But other examples excepted.

monkeyfudge

Elmo wrote:

WARNING
IF YOU HAVE NOT SEE BATMAN BEGINS DO NOT LOOK AT THE SPOILER BELOW
WARNING

So is his killing of Liam Neeson's character at the end of Batman:Begins

But other examples excepted.

Well....

he didn't actually kill him. Ras Al Ghul had put himself into that situation. Batman merely didn't risk his own life to save him. Also, in the comics Ras Al Ghul is actually immortal and has survived far worse... but I think they meant to skip over that aspect of the character.

kdevitt

Elmo wrote:

WARNING
IF YOU HAVE NOT SEE BATMAN BEGINS DO NOT LOOK AT THE SPOILER BELOW
WARNING

So is his killing of Liam Neeson's character at the end of Batman:Begins

But other examples excepted.

As I said, its open to debate - but I personally think theres a big difference between what happened in Batman - where he secures the Joker to a gargoyle while he gets pulled in a different direction by a helicopter, and in Begins -

Batman specifically tells him that although he's not going to kill him, it doesn't mean he has to save him - or similar. The whole thing with the guy who's head he's meant to cut off reinforces his idealogy

Just given the scene where he makes his first appearance at the docks in Begins, I'd imagine the Burton version would have a loads of corpses rather than people tied up. (Although a Schumacher version would probably have the people tied up in neon ropes and Batman would have bought coffee for all the cops on his official Batman mastercard)

Regarding your initial point though

theres a clip on superherohype which appears to show Al Ghul jumping off the train...

Gross Halfwit

Its pretty much a spoiler. Its all inwhite. You know what to do.

So I went to see batman last night and I have to say it was not good. It was a glorified Bond movie. None of the characters stood out. The action sequences were cliche and pointless. Darker? Darker my ass! This movie did nothing for me. None of the bad guys really got their comeuppance. All the characters lacked depth. It looked like a poor mans Spawn in places. Im thouroughly pissed off.

I didnt care about one single good character because none of them could possibly die. All the bad guys were two dimensional and didnt seem to have a plausible reason for doing what they were doing! It had no emotional content for me whatsoever. The script lacked any memorable lines or scenes. The acting was phoned in from most of the cast. I would rather watch AVP instead of that piece of crap again and thats saying something!
I dont mind slow burn starts. I quite enjoyed the build up in Spider-Man. Its just that the start of this movie lacked any degree of pace or meaning.

The rest of the characters were pointless to be honest. Rutger didnt turn out to be the mastermind behind the whole thing, he was just a muppet. As for Freeman, I understand his role in the whole thing but Batman could have easily acquired all the equipment without his help thus making him a redundant character.

As for Gordon. How did Batman know he was such a good guy? Cause he comforted him for 37 seconds when his folks died? Come ****ing on! No reason was given for us to trust Gordon save his name.

No characters had my undivided attention Im afraid. Liam Neeson's character lacked drive or reason. I know he said why his organisation do what they do but he gave no real personal weight to it.

The Batmobile Chase was pointless. He could have easily escaped them without the need for jumping from roof to roof! He left one group of cops and joined another...the point of that was what? Then he turned off the lights to avoid detection only to turn them back on!!!!???

I hated this movie. Any one else agree?

kdevitt

Gross Halfwit wrote:

Its pretty much a spoiler.
I hated this movie. Any one else agree?[/COLOR]

I think you replied to the wrong thread - the review thread is in a different section. Couldn't disagree more with you though

Necronomicon

kdevitt wrote:

Couldn't disagree more with you

Ditto!

Elmo

I can agree with alot of what Gross Halfwit is saying.

I think it was really alot more about batman then anyother character.

I thought Morgan Freeman's character was the best, but then when you have morgan freeman playing any role it has to be good IMO.

But I think there is more to think about about in this movie then the others.

I didn't like the Batmobile, either. The amount of destruction caused what ever about him not killing anyone.

Batman:TAS remains the darkest and most enjoyable series so far

monkeyfudge

Elmo wrote:

Batman:TAS remains the darkest and most enjoyable series so far

What did you think of Batman Beyond (Batman of the Future)?

The film in particular was great. There is a wonderful flashback scene that shows Batmans final confrontation with the Joker... What Joker did to Robin was really dark and disturbing....