Would the government step in if insurance companies gave discounts for penalty points

rubadub

At the moment some car insurance companies give discounts for people with no penalty points (or rather charge people more who do have them). What if their figures started to show that those with penalty points were putting less claims in (I'm not going to get into the good driver debates, insurance is all about claims not skill). A few friends of mine have several penalty points and are driving far slower because of it, I heard one FOAF is on his last legs and is driving very carefully. It is quite likely most are doing this (I have 2 points and now am more careful)
So what if the insurance companies started to openly advertise cheaper car insurance for people with penalty points? Do you think bertie and his mob of degenerates would step in?

Sleepy

Interesting concept rubadub, very interesting. Personally I believe that motor insurance should be taken out of private hands as it is in Ireland, it's no more and no less than a protection racket. Given that most people won't make a claim unless it's something they couldn't afford to take a loan out for, the product we're legally forced to buy is more a tax on drivers levied by private corporations than an insurance policy.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

fascinating idea rubadub - write a letter on it to the Irish Times - should get an interesting response...

landser

rubadub wrote:

At the moment some car insurance companies give discounts for people with no penalty points (or rather charge people more who do have them). What if they figures started to show that those with penalty points were putting less claims in (I'm not going to get into the good driver debates, insurance is all about claims not skill). A few friends of mine have several penalty points and are driving far slower because of it, I heard one FOAF is on his last legs and is driving very carefully. It is quite likely most are doing this (I have 2 points and now am more careful)
So what if the insurance companies started to openly advertise cheaper car insurance for people with penalty points? Do you think bertie and his mob of degenerates would step in?

bizarre notion.

the insurance companies would then be seen as encouraging bad driving. people with no points would then try to get points so as to get the cheaper insurance. not exactly good press for the insurance companies, who don't exactly need any more bad press.

further, you own anecdotal evidence that people with points drive slower is bogus. if this was the case, nobody would ever have more than two points, as once caught, they would immediately start driving within the perscribed limits.

rubadub

landser wrote:

further, you own anecdotal evidence that people with points drive slower is bogus. if this was the case, nobody would ever have more than two points, as once caught, they would immediately start driving within the perscribed limits.

All I can say is what I have noticed. One mate of mine was always speeding around, then I actually noticed he was going slow and mentioned it, I didn't know he had gotten points before this. Of course some people will keep speeding or get points for other things, but I know plenty with 2 points I don't know any friend with more than 2 just FOAFs, unless they are all keeping quiet. I would like to see the stats on how many have 4 or more points.

Once bitten twice shy though. I always have my eye on the clock now, too much, I reckon I was safer before because my eye was nearly always on the road.

People may not speed to get the points, just pull up beside a garda and take out the phone, or off with the seatbelt. €80 fine 2 points. Cheers officer you saved me €200!

Sleepy

I've seen almost as many guardai on the phone whilst driving as I have members of the public!

Ri_Nollaig

im sure if u have an accident u will b more carefuly too but does that mean insurance companys will give u a cheap policy

rubadub

Ri_Nollaig wrote:

im sure if u have an accident u will b more carefuly too but does that mean insurance companys will give u a cheap policy

Insurance cost has nothing to do with how many accidents you have, or how skilled a driver you are. It is based on how many claims you put in. If a new company started up they are just guessing what premiums to charge, probably based on data from other companies. They many give out 1000 policies to people with no points and charge more for 1000 policies for people with 2 points. If during the year the no-pointers claim more money in future the company should charge no-pointers more for a premium, in effect charging the 2-pointers less.

A guy from either the AA or PMPA was on TV a few years back saying on average women claimed more money per mile than men, but since they drove far less their premiums were less. A fireman is highly trained in how to avoid injury in a fire, but I bet my yearly insurance against burn injury would be lower than his.

The points system is just another thing the companies can legally discriminate against people for without ever seeing a claim history, along with sex, age, job, area, car type etc. They do not need to disclose their reasons for variations, I just wonder if the government would step in and make it illegal for them to discriminate against points. I also wonder what would happen if the insurance companies became racist as well as sexist and ageist, or does anybody know of any openly racist companies?

shellby

i know it sounds defeatist but there really is nothing you can do about it legally you require insurance therefore you must pay the premium therefore the insurance companies can charge ridiculously high prices and make their billions of euro profit i'm 20 and drive a 125cc motorbike my insurance was €3500 because there are only 3 motorbike insurance companies in the country and one of them won't insure first time drivers thats just plian criminal a monopoly in a market is a illegal and should be monitored by the gov but it's not

kasintahan

What I don't understand is if we're all such wonderful drivers here, paying high premiums, then why aren't there more continental insurance companies offering products here?

Hobbes

I don't see why people should be rewarded for breaking the law.

If anything I'd like to see people start getting taken off the road. From my driving I'd say about 1 in 4 shouldn't be even on the road (not talking about just learner drivers either).

rubadub

Hobbes wrote:

I don't see why people should be rewarded for breaking the law.

or having different genitals...

Hobbes wrote:

If anything I'd like to see people start getting taken off the road. From my driving I'd say about 1 in 4 shouldn't be even on the road (not talking about just learner drivers either).

Too right. Does anybody know what % of drivers have never passed a test, including the millions who were just handed licences.

ando

Fantastic notion but it aint gona happen, I have 2 points and drive faster now than I every have. I suspect there's plenty like myself, you'll only really slow down when there's a real risk of your license being revoked

rubadub

ando wrote:

you'll only really slow down when there's a real risk of your license being revoked

You said it! Thats exactly my point, the FOAF I heard is driving extremely carefully since he is on the last of his points. The more points you have the lower the premium. Did getting the 2 points make you have a conscious decision to "drive faster now than I every have", if so why?

Hobbes

rubadub wrote:

or having different genitals...

Indeed. I wonder about that as well considering I have seen a woman driver drop to under the dash while driving at 30km/h, others on mobile phones/eating putting on makeup. I've seen guys do similar stuff but no idea why women would get better insurance.

Kingsize

women are less likely to claim thats all!
insurance companies like to push the whole Girl power thing,but really its down to claims,i have contemplated changing my name by deed poll to "estelle" & applying for insurance just to see what they would quote me.

Eoin

kasintahan wrote:

What I don't understand is if we're all such wonderful drivers here, paying high premiums, then why aren't there more continental insurance companies offering products here?

AFAIK they are not allowed to operate over here as it is, they have to set up an agent over here first.

From what I have heard, the foreign companies that do offer to insure Irish drivers from abroad can leave you in a very grey legal area.

rubadub

Kingsize wrote:

women are less likely to claim thats all!

Exactly, if all the boy racers in their souped up noise machines ran over grannies everyday, had rakes of points, and crashed every single day causing €1000's in damage, but never put a claim in, then boy racers would have very low insurance.

The same guy from the AA or PMPA said that women drivers were starting to drive almost as much as men, and he predicted that women would be have higher premiums in the next 5 years if the trend continued, simple maths, nothing about skill. If it does happen I wonder if women will call for an end to the blatant sexual discrimination that companies advertise, they are not even discrete about it. I still do not know if they can be racist, but imagine a similar advert to the "Woman driver? Cheaper insurance here" ads imagine "Caucasian driver? We want you!" ads, and some photo of a white bloke with a big thumbs up in a car.

Eoin

rubadub wrote:

I still do not know if they can be racist, but imagine a similar advert to the "Woman driver? Cheaper insurance here" ads imagine "Caucasian driver? We want you!" ads, and some photo of a white bloke with a big thumbs up in a car.

Excellent point. Apparently it is not discrimination if it is based on anecdotal evidence - in this case that womens claims are lower than men.

However, if mens insurance started to be cheaper - could they reverse the adverts and have a mens only insurance scheme? I doubt it - our dungaree wearing feminist sisters would be up in arms.

And your example - what if the evidence is there that white people are better drivers than black drivers? Again, I couldn't see the advert that you described. But what if the evidence said that black people were better drivers than white people - would there be uproar if they advertised insurance policies for black people only?

Sleepy

It will certainly be interesting to see what happens if women were the ones being discriminated against in terms of motor insurance. TBH, I can't really see it happening though because when dealing with couples, nine times out of ten it's the guy who drives when they're both in the car...