Privacy invasion

Hobbes

tim3115 wrote:

I'm telling you I read it in the Irish Independent.

And I am saying that I can find absolutly no story related to what you are saying. This means unless you know what keywords to search for the Irish Independant wrote a fictional story or your full of it.

So use your knowledge of the story and find it online.

From monday's irish independent letters page:

So you quoted a letters page (not news story) out of context. Way to go there.

I obviously meant Islamic. Apologies, since the paper wasn't there in front of my eyes.

Yet I am still unable to find a story related to the persons post on the letters page. I would hardly call that realiable news.

gandalf

KnowItAll wrote:

I see that the government is going to hold data on people for 3 years now. Another example of Irish peoples liberties being eroded because of the Islamic wave sweeping through europe at the moment. The London bombings were the perfect excuse for the government to do this (along with our sister government, Britian).

Once again I'll say that they should be watching the Islamics only. If this means they'll not be treated as equals, well thats just tough.

OK as far as I am concerned this is borderline racism from you (its probably more accurate to describe it as sectarianism). You have labelled one whole category of people as terrorists because of a small group of fanatics. Where has that happened before, oh yes Irish people in England during the 70's & 80's. As a so-called Irish person you should be ashamed to be doing the same.

That depends on your point of view. If you think having an Irish passport makes you Irish then there are plenty of islamic Irish. For me being Irish involves a little more than having an Irish passport (i'm not going to go into more detail on this issue, thanks).

Well I know why you won't go into it. Last time you tried on the History/Heritage board you got your ar$e handed to you. I think you need to provide more details, infact I insist that you do just to confirm that you are not a racist, if you don't I will take it that you are and this is a racist tirade and will ban you permanently from Politics.

tim3115

Racist? How did you take that out of what he said exactly?

"The belief that race accounts for differences in human character"


and...?


Instead of jumping on your high horse, maybe you could have used the word 'patriot'? Just a suggestion.

gandalf

tim3115 wrote:

Racist? How did you take that out of what he said exactly?

"The belief that race accounts for differences in human character"


and...?

Quite easily actually based on his words and his previous "contributions" to this forum and others on boards.

Instead of jumping on your high horse, maybe you could have used the word 'patriot'? Just a suggestion.

Well next time keep your suggestions to yourself.

Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons. ~Bertrand Russell

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. ~Albert Einstein

Patriotism, the virtue of the vicious. ~Oscar Wilde

tim3115

Well next time keep your suggestions to yourself.

Being oppressed now?


Unfortunately for you, Bertrand Russell and co mean nothing to me. Einstein and Wilde? Ha.

Russell : "...in which he champions humanitarian ideals and freedom of thought",

well, that's why the fellow said what he said I'd imagine. Nice quote though.


How about quoting some other individuals concerning Patriotism/Nationalism? Michael Collins? Writings from the Third Reich possibly? Nietzsche?

gandalf

Obviously being able to produce links to stories you "read" also means nothing to you either.

And as for using the Third Reich as a reference for patriotism, well it shows what kind of individual you are :rolleyes:

tim3115

Okay,

I'll use the same approach as your good self :


Using quotes from Albert Einstein and Oscar Wilde shows what kind of individual you are. :eek:

nobodythere

I can't believe you're coming onto this thread endorsing the patriotism of Nazi Germany

GUBU

Stekelly wrote:

Wasnt the guy that set off the nail bombs in London a few years back targeting Gay people or summat? I recall he may also have been a skinhead, so maybe all people with shaved heads ( and naturally bald people- theyre shifty at the best of times) should be put one some sort of round the clock anti gay watch list. :rolleyes:

There's no comparison to be made here. Islamic fundamentalism is a global and organised threat, not the work of a lone lunatic. It's all very well to say everyone, or no-one, should be targetted in the name of equality, but it should be obvious that someone with an Islamic background is far more likely to be suspect at this point in time, in the context of terrorism in most western countries and the middle east. It's not bigoted, it's just a fact.

While its possible that other groups will attack in the same way, at the moment they pose less of a threat and do not have the precedent of atrocities such as 9/11, Madrid, Bali and London.

As for the legislation, if you have nothing to hide, why worry? Unless you're involved in illegal activites, I doubt the Gardai are going to place the same importance on the details of your personal life that you do.

tim3115

grasshopa wrote:

I can't believe you're coming onto this thread endorsing the patriotism of Nazi Germany

What do you mean endorsing the patriotism of Nazi Germany?


Nationalism was mentioned, Germany was a perfect example. The people of Germany were particularly proud pre-war, wouldn't you agree?

gandalf

tim3115 wrote:

Okay,

I'll use the same approach as your good self :


Using quotes from Albert Einstein and Oscar Wilde shows what kind of individual you are. :eek:

What someone who respects scientist and playwrights instead of nutters who murder millions in the gas chambers yep it does alright.

I take it you're one of the stormfront brigade then.

Hobbes

GUBU wrote:

As for the legislation, if you have nothing to hide, why worry? Unless you're involved in illegal activites, I doubt the Gardai are going to place the same importance on the details of your personal life that you do.

Most of the reasons such a thing is to worry about is the lack of checks and balances that stop this system from being abused. You would never have to worry if those in power were above reproach. However this is rarely if ever the case.

In such instance you would have nothing to worry about as long as you remained an average pleb not amounting to anything, providing you don't piss off someone in power.

Anyway you don't have a problem with the US being able to detain people in secret in Ireland, or search+sieze Irish property or read all your personal information or remove you to the US because you broke a law which may or may not of broken here. So why not have the same treaty with England? or how about China? You feel fine about that?

KnowItAll

gandalf wrote:

OK as far as I am concerned this is borderline racism from you (its probably more accurate to describe it as sectarianism).

You seem to get quite emotional Gandalf!
So, what do you think it is, racism or sectarianism?

gandalf wrote:

Well I know why you won't go into it. Last time you tried on the History/Heritage board you got your ar$e handed to you.

Ha ha . I don't think so... You believe you were right because I stopped answering questions. How long did you intend it to go on? Do you think that I'm incapable of putting across a view that is staring everybody in the face? What I said about Irish culture is true. You and some others didn't like to hear what I had to say so (as usual) I was being asked all sorts of questions that were to put it simply, not worth answering..

gandalf wrote:

I think you need to provide more details, infact I insist that you do just to confirm that you are not a racist, if you don't I will take it that you are and this is a racist tirade and will ban you permanently from Politics.

What details are you looking for? All I can say is I'm not a racist. Take a look at the things I wrote about African aid.

Why do you feel the need to ban me? Is it because you cannot prove I'm (you think) wrong? and could you please explain to me how I'm racist? (I'd like facts please )

KnowItAll

gandalf wrote:

What someone who respects scientist and playwrights instead of nutters who murder millions in the gas chambers yep it does alright.

Once again Gandalfs imagination is out of control...

Victor

KnowItAll wrote:

Because they are the ones who are bombing everywhere at the moment. When other groups start doing it, watch them.

"Can some Christian Arab Terrorists-for-Hire, please report to reception? We know how to get past security."

bonkey

GUBU wrote:

As for the legislation, if you have nothing to hide, why worry? Unless you're involved in illegal activites, I doubt the Gardai are going to place the same importance on the details of your personal life that you do.

Yeah, because access to stuff like...oooh....the websites you post on and your clearly-stated political leanings, beliefs etc would never be used for something like....I dunno.....exactly the type of profiling to identify threats that you seem to be favouring regarding Islamics.

After all, good security involves identifying new threats before they cause people to die, not after.

So - you'd have no problem being disappeared for a few weeks on the grounds that a randomish search linked your name to some posts somewhere, or that your picture was taken at a protest, and you fitted whatever the latest profile was?

Or do you post through an anonymiser and wear a balaclava out in public because basic, simple privacy is too much to ask, but something you're still willing to go to extreme lengths to keep whilst supporting its revocation from others?

jc

Hobbes

Nationalism was mentioned, Germany was a perfect example.

"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

Yep perfect example.

KnowItAll

KnowItAll wrote:

Once again Gandalfs imagination is out of control...

Banned for a minimum of 3 weeks.
This is your second banning from here,you obviously havent learned the house rules since your last banning.

Gurgle

GUBU wrote:

it should be obvious that someone with an Islamic background is far more likely to be suspect at this point in time, in the context of terrorism in most western countries and the middle east. It's not bigoted, it's just a fact.

There are 1.6 million muslims in the UK.
Thats a whole lot of suspects.

Don't you think the suspect pool needs to be narrowed down a bit more before you start snatching people off the street ?

If you claim they are all valid suspects then it follows logically that all 5 million Irish are valid suspects for IRA attacks.

So why didn't Britain re-invade Ireland during the troubles ?

tim3115

Yep perfect example.

Err, thanks

So you're trying to say Germany wasn't full of Nationalism before/start of the war?

GUBU

bonkey wrote:

So - you'd have no problem being disappeared for a few weeks on the grounds that a randomish search linked your name to some posts somewhere, or that your picture was taken at a protest, and you fitted whatever the latest profile was?

Gurgle wrote:

There are 1.6 million muslims in the UK.
Thats a whole lot of suspects.

Don't you think the suspect pool needs to be narrowed down a bit more before you start snatching people off the street ?

This legislation is not about changing the law regarding arrest and detention, so being "disappeared" or "snatched off the street" on these (or any) grounds in a democratic country as a result of it is a highly unlikely scenario.

And yes, I do believe that knowledge of people's public actions, contacts and the organisations and people they are affiliated to are of value to the intelligence services in identifying possible risks. How else would they do it?

Bear in mind that I'm not talking about some angry loner posting his/her ramblings on a website (do you really think they care?), but a prolonged period of suspicious and potentially dangerous activity, such as actual contact with members of Al-Qaeda.

Gurgle wrote:

If you claim they are all valid suspects then it follows logically that all 5 million Irish are valid suspects for IRA attacks.

So why didn't Britain re-invade Ireland during the troubles ?

I'm not claiming they are all valid suspects. I'm simply stating that after an act of terrorism such as a bombing, members of radical Muslim organisations are going to be among the main suspects, and rightly so, considering their track record.

As for Britain re-invading Ireland - don't you think your comparison is just a little exaggerated? First you mentioned arrests, now it becomes invasion? You also seem to be confusing a religious or ethnic identity with a nation, if you compare "Muslim" and "Irish".

Gurgle

GUBU wrote:

I'm simply stating that after an act of terrorism such as a bombing, members of radical Muslim organisations are going to be among the main suspects, and rightly so, considering their track record.

Yes, members of radical Muslim organizations are suspects but thats being extended to all muslims.

GUBU wrote:

As for Britain re-invading Ireland - don't you think your comparison is just a little exaggerated? First you mentioned arrests, now it becomes invasion? You also seem to be confusing a religious or ethnic identity with a nation, if you compare "Muslim" and "Irish".

The invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq have been sold from the start as a 'War on Terror'TM.
& I'm comparing Muslim fundamentalist paramilitaries to Irish catholic nationalist paramilitaries. It's not that big a stretch.

rsynnott

jman0 wrote:

Not quite that simple rsynnott. It's called Energy Returned for Energy Invested. And nuclear power is not all it's cracked up to be. The amount of energy (currently entirely fossil fuel based) that goes into the construction and operation of the reactor, and necessary building materials outweighs the energy return we get from it.

Evidence please. France now derives 70% of its electrical energy from nuclear (fission) power. 100 megaton TNT-eqivalent volumes of oil certainly were NOT required for the Tsar Bomba. Methinks you're confused.

grasshopa wrote:

Millions of cars don't run on nuclear fusion, but I suppose you might have a point about technology...

Ah, yes. Cars are, of course, an ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL part of an industrialised society? How could I have forgotten? Trains are strictly imaginary, and walking is for cows.

Kare Bear wrote:

What the hell do they want.Should never let Israelis into the country.:mad:

Sorry, what? There's nothing wrong with Israeli people, any more than there is with any other people. The Israeli government has certainly done some Naughty Things, but then so have their enemies. Would you exclude Iranians, or Chinese, or Americans from entering Ireland?

tim3115 wrote:

Instead of jumping on your high horse, maybe you could have used the word 'patriot'? Just a suggestion.

Ah, patriotism, the irational belief that your country is somehow better than everyone else's. A pathology

KnowItAll wrote:

You seem to get quite emotional Gandalf!
So, what do you think it is, racism or sectarianism?

It's certainly some form of irrational bigotry. Which form it happens to be is largely irrelevant.

GUBU wrote:

As for Britain re-invading Ireland - don't you think your comparison is just a little exaggerated? First you mentioned arrests, now it becomes invasion? You also seem to be confusing a religious or ethnic identity with a nation, if you compare "Muslim" and "Irish".

Actually, the OP was comparing two IDENTITIES.

Jesus Trash Can

Kare Bear wrote:

It aint that bad unless u have something to hide.

Tell that to the dead Brazillian......