Irish Shorts

Dick Darlington

Who picks these scripts, most I see are well made technically but the scripts are rubbish.

Why doesn't anybody take a risk and do something different?
The film board/filmbase just don't seem to be able to spot a good script or maybe they aren't being submitted bad scripts, everything is just so M.O.R.

Recent shorts such as the guy running around Clare r sumwer in the 1920's training for the Olympics, The Ten Steps,Waterloo Dentures i've seen in cinema and read about all the awards they've won, and they're crap.
The Ten Steps is another short that seems to be winning awards but doesn't seem very good either, some of these are costing E80,000 ? Where's it going?cause it sure ain't on the screen.

The only good shorts that come to mind are Wonderful World of Kelvin Kind, Pitch n Putt With Beckett n Joyce,Carpenter and His Clumsy Wife, Undressing My Mother, Ouch !, Ivor the Insomniac a few others but with the amount of shorts being made it's ridiculous how bad they are.
I was on shoot for a film board short and it was unbelieveable how disorganised it was and how time and money was wasted, it was also a rubbish script.

I'm a film student and know it's hard to make a short but they can never be any good when a script is rubbish. These views are shared by all film students I know. Some of these so called up and coming directors came in to us in college and spoke, they didn't know who Wes Anderson was or really seemed to be clued in to anyting contemporary, who wants another Jim Sheridan?
I think everyone would prefer another Neil Jordan

Anyone any comment ?

Miguel_Sanchez

Dick Darlington wrote:

Who picks these scripts, most I see are well made technically but the scripts are rubbish.

It depends on what funding body is awarding the money. I know that filmbase and the Galway film centre normally have an RTE representative, a filmbase/film centre person and one independent. At least that's how it was for me - got a script award from the Galway Film Centre this year.

There's a huge propblem in Ireland with poor scripts and it seems to be that people or production companies who have made something half decent are just repeatedly given money and little regard is given to the project at scripting stage. It's a travesty to be honest. We really need fresh blood.

Although Dick I have to say that Ivor the Insomniac was a ****ing woeful film. Indeed I don't think Shimmy Marcus is a good writer at all. Nice guy but not a brilliant writer.

Dick Darlington

Shortest day of the yr last December they showed a heap of new irish shorts in UGC. As a student I thought it was great because if this is what there is to compete against then it'l be pretty easy.
Now as festivals around Ireland. U.K. and U.S are happening i'm reading on iftn.ie about how these shorts are winning awards around the world ???

I also know of someone submitted a script o Filmbase and got the award, the script is crap but suprise suprise ! his D.P. is on the board of Filmbase.

It's like people like Kirsten Sheridan being on the filmboard and being praised as a filmmaker. Why? Disco Pigs is just ok and it's only 1 film. Her short the Strange Case of Majella McGinty was crap and her other short, i think its called Patterns, about the handicapped kid, is woeful ! I'd heard about this short like she'd reinvented the wheel.

I don't want these sorts of people reading my scripts and deciding whether it should be made or not, if she didn't like my script i'd take it as a compliment.

Miguel_Sanchez

See herein lies the problem. It's all a matter of taste. What some people consider to be good scripts (or what appear to be good on paper) will be **** when finished (or will be what some people consider ****).

I will agree with you that the majority of shorts in Ireland have serious problems at the script stage. However, Patterns was an excellent short in my opinion. Saw it in college years ago and loved it.

The best thing to do is write (if that's what you do). Keep writing and honing your skills and make the good shorts we need. I'm hoping that when my film is finished it'll be something I can be proud of.

Just as a matter of interest could you IM me the name of the filmbase film you mentioned. If it was one of the 2004 ones I think I know which one you're talking about.

TerrorFirmer

I saw 2 interesting Irish shorts once, the only two that stick in my memory as quite good.

One was about a teenager with an obsession with a girl, and kept following her around,and ultimately couldnt face rejection...

The other was about 3 German Soldiers in WW2 finding some sort of stash of money, and with it several dead german soldiers. It becomes pretty obvious what happens to them as time goes on...

I didn't include the endings in the spirit of not ruining things, in the unlikely event someone might see them in the future. Anyone know what these two were called? They were both interesting to watch, the 1st one in particular. The 2nd one could have been really great with a slightly better script and better locations...

film_gonzo

I think the same thing affects Irish shorts as affects Irish features. Mediocrity, Playing it safe and an unwillingness to leave the kitchen sink dramas and try out some other genres.

There's been a few forays into other genres. Some good. Some not so good. But variety is good none-the-less good.

We're a nation of people bursting with imagination- just look at all our world famous writers and poets- but I've yet to see that imagination up on screen.

Dick Darlington

but if the people selecting the scripts wont take a risk on something different then it's a catch 22.
To be trusted with money you need a proven track record and to have a track record it means yoou make crappy MOR shorts, and in Ireland you need the money to shoot on film, there's a snobbery that looks down on digital

Kingsize

most of the time its a one hour script that has to get shaved down to half an hour or 15 minutes no room for a decent idea to develop -ive seen some dreadful ones !!!

mycroft

Dick Darlington wrote:

Who picks these scripts, most I see are well made technically but the scripts are rubbish.

Why doesn't anybody take a risk and do something different?
The film board/filmbase just don't seem to be able to spot a good script or maybe they aren't being submitted bad scripts, everything is just so M.O.R.

So first it's the film board's fault and now it's the writers?

Recent shorts such as the guy running around Clare r sumwer in the 1920's training for the Olympics, The Ten Steps,Waterloo Dentures i've seen in cinema and read about all the awards they've won, and they're crap.
The Ten Steps is another short that seems to be winning awards but doesn't seem very good either, some of these are costing E80,000 ? Where's it going?cause it sure ain't on the screen.

I hardly think the 10 steps (well dodgy by the way) cost 80,000 do you?

The only good shorts that come to mind are Wonderful World of Kelvin Kind, Pitch n Putt With Beckett n Joyce,Carpenter and His Clumsy Wife, Undressing My Mother, Ouch !, Ivor the Insomniac a few others but with the amount of shorts being made it's ridiculous how bad they are.

Pitch n Putt with Beckett n Joyce is without a doubt one of the most prententious and annoying shorts I've seen in years, and a classic example of whats wrong with Irish cinema, titteringly witty, and oh so "Po Mo" I thought it was a pretentious waste of film. And it got a cinema release on the front of the Others.

There was an actual thread in film review section bitching about Kelvin mainly because some genius stuck it on the front of Constantine, inane and idiotic choice of film IMO esp considering a very long engagement was on release at the time.

I was on shoot for a film board short and it was unbelieveable how disorganised it was and how time and money was wasted, it was also a rubbish script.

I'm a film student and know it's hard to make a short but they can never be any good when a script is rubbish. These views are shared by all film students I know.

And you'll find the Production Manager on that short is actually a third AD, the DP is a focus puller, and editor, an assistant, this is one of the major major selling points of the short scene, it gives on the job training for film professionals who want to move up their grades.

Some of these so called up and coming directors came in to us in college and spoke, they didn't know who Wes Anderson was or really seemed to be clued in to anyting contemporary, who wants another Jim Sheridan?
I think everyone would prefer another Neil Jordan

Anyone any comment ?

So er, In the Name of the Father was a worse film than "the good thief"?

I don't really know what your bitching about here, the quality of Irish shorts is the same as the quality of Irish feature films, incredibly patchy.

You've not mentioned for example Alan Gilsenan's "Zulu 9" one of the best short films I've ever seen, from anywhere. Or "Prey Alone", an absurdly imaginative popcorn flick truncated into ten minutes, or "White", good chilling Sci Fi horror stuff. Or Conor Mc Mahon's shorts. Theres a scattering of truly great world class Irish shorts out there. Theres also a plethora of complete and utter sh*t.

If you wanted to have bitch about shorts, cause you wanna make one, I'd suggest you stop bitching and start writing.

However I think you're focusing on one minor problem of the issue of the Irish film crisis (we pasted slump and entered crisis a few months ago)

Miguel_Sanchez

mycroft wrote:

I hardly think the 10 steps (well dodgy by the way) cost 80,000 do you?

Now I'm not sure how much The 10 Steps had for a budget but you'd be surprised how quickly a short racks up the costs. If the crew were paid proper wages then it could easily come to 80,000 despite how good or bad it is.

I'm in pre-production for a short at the moment and we have a budget of 9,500. Nobody on the crew is getting paid and we are getting 95% of our equipment for free and we're still extremely strapped for cash and will probably go over. This is only for a 3/4 day shoot.

mycroft wrote:

Pitch n Putt with Beckett n Joyce is without a doubt one of the most prententious and annoying shorts I've seen in years, and a classic example of whats wrong with Irish cinema, titteringly witty, and oh so "Po Mo" I thought it was a pretentious waste of film. And it got a cinema release on the front of the Others.

If we're taking pot shots at Irish Shorts I think we could do a lot worse than Pitch and Putt with Beckett and Joyce.

Ivor the Insomniac and Aroma are two that spring immediately to mind as being complete wastes of time.

Capt'n Midnight

MobileInfantry wrote:

The other was about 3 German Soldiers in WW2 finding some sort of stash of money, and with it several dead german soldiers. It becomes pretty obvious what happens to them as time goes on...

IIRC was done by people from Kevin Street and based on the pardoner's tale from Chaucer.

Have to agree that many are technically excellent but many lacking in script. That one about the flying saucer and the cows, punchline was so obvious for so long it was getting boring.

mycroft

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

Now I'm not sure how much The 10 Steps had for a budget but you'd be surprised how quickly a short racks up the costs. If the crew were paid proper wages then it could easily come to 80,000 despite how good or bad it is.

It's three sets, one restaurant, a kitchen and a stair case. Trust me, it was well under 80,000g

I'm in pre-production for a short at the moment and we have a budget of 9,500. Nobody on the crew is getting paid and we are getting 95% of our equipment for free and we're still extremely strapped for cash and will probably go over. This is only for a 3/4 day shoot.

And thats about standard, getting paid FA, excluding expenses, is standard for a short. And 9,500 for a 4 day shoot ain't too bad.

If we're taking pot shots at Irish Shorts I think we could do a lot worse than Pitch and Putt with Beckett and Joyce.

Ivor the Insomniac and Aroma are two that spring immediately to mind as being complete wastes of time.

I loathed it as the kind of sniggering self referential, oh we're so witty, and literate, tittering post modern turid, wittless crap.

Mr E

Saw one recently called "The Burning Bed" (a separating couple decide to burn their bed on the beach). During the short, I was tapped on the shoulder and asked by a girl if she was in the right screen. At the end of it, there were some audible "What the f*ck?"s and laughter. It was awful.....

ObeyGiant

mycroft wrote:

It's three sets, one restaurant, a kitchen and a stair case. Trust me, it was well under 80,000g

And thats about standard, getting paid FA, excluding expenses, is standard for a short. And 9,500 for a 4 day shoot ain't too bad.

Von der IMDB:

Business Data for
The Ten Steps (2004)

Budget
€9,500 (estimated)

Miguel_Sanchez

mycroft wrote:

It's three sets, one restaurant, a kitchen and a stair case. Trust me, it was well under 80,000g

And thats about standard, getting paid FA, excluding expenses, is standard for a short. And 9,500 for a 4 day shoot ain't too bad.

I realise that 9,500 for a 4 day shoot is grand and believe me I'm well aware of the way that most people work on Irish shorts for nothing or next to nothing.

I was just pointing out that no matter how small a film it could rack up costs close to 80,000 quite easily if all cast and crew were being paid properly for their time.

mycroft

ObeyGiant wrote:

Von der IMDB:

Damn I'm good.........

Jeff wrote:

I was just pointing out that no matter how small a film it could rack up costs close to 80,000 quite easily if all cast and crew were being paid properly for their time.

Crew getting paid properly? That'd be your entire budget gone for one days shoot.