Our Police Force: Proud??

Wheely

I just thought that givent the monumental amount of bad press the Gardai are getting these days if anyone still had any faith left in them? Over the last couple of years weve had Abbeylara, that May Day fiasco, Richie Barron, I even batted an eyelid over Lusk and I know most didnt, and onw this 14-yr old kid in Clonmel. Is it a case of a few bad apples spoiling the whole batch? Should Noel Conroy resign? Is McDowells Criminla Justice Bill the answer? and in a nutshell are you proud of your police force?

derek27

if they all decided to go on strike for a week we'd see how much they do for us. i personally think they are not given enough power in some situation. the law can also protect so many criminals from getting convictions too, even where the police are 100% sure they committed a crime. but am aware that as in all walks of people, there will always be some wayward ones. i'm proud of our police force.

zuma

I still rember a friend of mine who called a garda a "Fat Pig" and got a thump in the gut for his troubles!!!

The gardai are a law onto themselves and until we have a proper Ombudsman like what is present in N.ireland nothing will EVER change!!!

Every second one is crooked.....though they are getting slightly better when most were crooked in the 50's/60's!!!

FTA69

I have no trust in the police, I have witnessed cases of assault at the hands of police since I was a child, they are by no means shy of swinging torches at people in working class areas that's for sure. That's when they bother showing up of course, calls about joyriders or drug-dealers may as well be made to the Easter Bunny who would undoubtedly be more effective than those too lazy to actually move on criminals.

The activities of the Garda Special Branch have also had a detrimental effect on their claim to adhere to any sort of "law", for years they have carried on a campaign of political harrasment and abuse which often included cases of torture as outlined in the case of the infamous "Heavy Gang" of the 1970s. Even to this day there are those who are savagely beaten by the so-called Guardians of Peace while arrested under the Offenses Against the State Act, harrasment meted out to those who don't meet with the political criteria set by the cops include threats, provocative and repeated drug-searches, arrests for no reason, beatings, harrasment of one's family, local smear campaigns, harrasment at road checkpoints, provocative raids as well as the many ways they have of inflicting pain without leaving visible marks eg putting phone books over a person's head and beating it with a baton, twisting of limbs or ears as well as applying pressure on pressure points.

DublinWriter

zuma wrote:

I still rember a friend of mine who called a garda a "Fat Pig" and got a thump in the gut for his troubles!!!

...and the problem is?

I'm proud of them on the whole considering their numbers and how vastly undermanned they are.

In the ROI with a population of 4 million, there are about 12,500 Guards.

In NI with a population of 1.5 million, there are 19,500 full time PSNI backed up by around 12,000 Army.

Now before you start, I do realise that the situation in NI is completely different, but EU-wise we have one of the lowest rates of police to population in this country and conversely we also have one of the highest politician to population ratios.

There's always bad apples in every organisation and they always infect the others. The big failings in the Guards so far have been at the management and political level. We also badly need an Police Ombudsman's office, based in the NI/Nuala O'Loan model.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote:

I have no trust in the police, I have witnessed cases of assault at the hands of police since I was a child, they are by no means shy of swinging torches at people in working class areas that's for sure. That's when they bother showing up of course, calls about joyriders or drug-dealers may as well be made to the Easter Bunny who would undoubtedly be more effective than those too lazy to actually move on criminals.

I'd also like to see some instances-some mind-not one or two but the widespead examples that you are going on about.

The activities of the Garda Special Branch have also had a detrimental effect on their claim to adhere to any sort of "law", for years they have carried on a campaign of political harrasment and abuse which often included cases of torture as outlined in the case of the infamous "Heavy Gang" of the 1970s.

could you post some facts about this please

Even to this day there are those who are savagely beaten by the so-called Guardians of Peace while arrested under the Offenses Against the State Act, harrasment meted out to those who don't meet with the political criteria set by the cops include threats, provocative and repeated drug-searches, arrests for no reason, beatings, harrasment of one's family, local smear campaigns, harrasment at road checkpoints, provocative raids as well as the many ways they have of inflicting pain without leaving visible marks eg putting phone books over a person's head and beating it with a baton, twisting of limbs or ears as well as applying pressure on pressure points.

Ah this would be the harrassment in free west waterford that you mention so much at every opportunity.
Could I take this opportunity yet again to ask you to present some evidence of this widespread carry on.
Some local newspaper articles would be nice,some links to the national dailies perhaps or perhaps an mpeg link to a phone in on Beat 102?

gandalf

zuma & FTA69 if you post any more of the same on here I expect you to provide some kind of back up, not this happened to a mate of mine. If I see posts of that quality again I will clean house !!!

dermo88

They need a lot more respect than they get. Its not a tough job coping with all the politically correct nonsense. A few cracked skanger skulls does'nt solve societies problems though, its just nice to see them cracked.

Often I find their attitude quite rude and confrontational. In the UK, Its "excuse me sir". In Dublin, I get "get out of the ****ing way". Hardly conducive to respect. Creates annoyance and fear, and antagonises.

But put yourself in their shoes. I'll be excuse me sir, until I am in a rush, and really have to move.

mike65

I think Con got there first....the Heavy Gang is somewhat imfamous finding links which are not rants from various hard left/republican types is'nt easy!

I think the Garda are a largly decent body of men and women who are, by and large poorly led and certainly poorly resourced. That they are in default
mode unarmed is a credit and I hope that does'nt change.

Mike.

murphaph

What dermo said. There a decent enough bunch with the odd dodgy one but could do with a few manners when dealing with decent folk-they're too used to cracking skanger skulls and forget that a lot of us aren't skangers up to no good. I've no problem with them cracking skanger skulls-it's the only 'language' the degenerate inbreds understand.

Some people on here seem to have issues with law and order in general.

mcguiver

12,500... yep I've bumped into the few bad ones, but the other 12.491 have only helped me time and time again.
Check out www.garda.ie , have a look at that pay scale, you wouldn't get much for what you pay.

Talk to the lads who have caught rapists, child molesters, muggers etc. and then had to stand by and watch them walk free the next day laughing in their faces.

They do lack training in many areas, and dealing with the public is only something that comes with time and accountability.
And as for the ombudsman in Northern Ireland...have a look at their results...not the R.T.E. special they did on Garda bashing. How many P.S.N.I. officers have been prosecuted for illegal activities??

I'd like to see the commissioner not being appointed by the government.... but by a commitee of senior Garda officers ,maybe then Gardai would chase alleged dodgy politicians and not have to worry about their career going nowhere !

When sh** hits the fan I know I'm always glad to see them blue lights coming

And just to be technical...their not a police force.

seamus

Abbeylara, that May Day fiasco, Richie Barron, I even batted an eyelid over Lusk and I know most didnt, and onw this 14-yr old kid in Clonmel.

The Richie Barron case there I think is about the only one I think reflects badly on the Gardai as a whole. That kid in Clonmel could just as easily died in a hospital, someone just forgot to check on him overnight. A serious **** up, but these things happen.

Overall I think the Gardai do the best job they can with the resources they're given. People seem to forget that we're a small country coming out of the opposite side of 40-odd years of serious poverty. Our wealth is up now, so rather than the electorate focussing purely on what'll get them jobs and food, we can focus on other thinsg such as examining how our money is spent and pressuring for non-essential things. In all ailing or fledgling economies, corruption is rife. Take any of the former Soviet bloc countries and you'll find severe corruption at all levels of Government and Society. It's only when the economy recovers that corruption is squeezed out, and people are interested in catching the criminals from years gone by.

I firmly believe that we're at least ten years away from a solid foundation of a policing force of the calibre of the UK's, and there will be much more scandals and years-old corruption uncovered before that happens.

zuma

From the response I got from a Mod I believe that this thread should be called:

"I love the Gardai and dont you say any different...or else!"

I wont be coming back to the political area again!

jank

There are lots of good guys out there, but there are plenty of the bad apples there too. Ive had first hand experience of this a few times and plenty more stories. If even half of the stories were true then id be worried. Never cross a garda other wise they will just **** with you no matter what you do. Its a bit of a "Old Boys Club".

Hopefully this is changing and there are plenty of them who are sound and genuine who try and help.

jesus_thats_gre

I have a number of close friends and relations who are Gardai, 6 in total.. They are spread evenly across the good and bad parts of Dublin..

A week does not go by where I do not get a rant about how they are under resourced, funded and trained from one of them.

A week does not go by where they rant about various suspects that got off due to loopholes in the law or "crazy" judges..

There is a number of eijits unfortunately but the vast majority are good, average people who are doing the best they can. They operate within many out dated restrictions that have not been updated due to govermental red tape..

Me or you can just move between caompanies if you feel we are not being allowed to work effectively. Where are they going to move to, a different country?

jesus_thats_gre

zuma wrote:

I still rember a friend of mine who called a garda a "Fat Pig" and got a thump in the gut for his troubles!!!

The gardai are a law onto themselves and until we have a proper Ombudsman like what is present in N.ireland nothing will EVER change!!!

And I bet this friend shows a bit more respect to them now.. He deserved alot more..


As for comparing our situation to the north. While the Gardai have proven to be anything but squeeky clean, the number of incidents that occur up the north out numbers those that occur down south by about 1000:1...

derek27

when you put you head down to finally go asleep tonight, you wont be worried about getting your house boken into and attacked in your sleep. that happens too, but not as fequently as it would if ..........

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Kare Bear

Hmm, so its OK for Gards to assault people for the heinous crime of being called names?

Well you have to teach them some respect.Anyway they do a fine job and all the gards i met were sound.

bonkey

ziggy67 wrote:

No doubt the friend lost any respect he might have had there and then.

Given that he apparently (going by all the information we've heard) was incredibly insulting and derogatory to a garda for no reason and with no provocation, I think its a bit farcical to suggest he had any respect for them in the first place.

Here was me thinking the Gardai were there to uphold the law.

Yes they are. And they're imperfect like any other group of humans.
But you know what...when its the people who treat them like dirt in the manner of this alleged friend who are constantly the ones finding fault....I'm not unduly concerned.

jc

jman0

They are useless and an obstruction to justice.
They lied on the garda abstract report for an accident i was involved in.
I no longer have respect for them.

Villain

I couldn't say I am proud of the force as a whole, from my time managing a Bar in a small town I got to know the local lads quite well and I have to say the majority of them are very reasonable and professional however I wouldn’t say I was proud of some their actions, without going into great detail, let just say when it comes to drink driving and after hours drinking some Gardai are law onto their own, not the majority but some.

My worst experience in relation to the Gardai was from my week spent on Jury duty earlier this year, 8 Gardai took the stand and I and every other juror only believed one Garda told the truth, the other 7 Gardai all contradicted each other and provided false statements to the court. I also followed the Barr tribunal in some detail which I found quite disturbing and I think the Gardai should handled the situation very differently to ensure no loss of life. Then obviously you have the incidents in Donegal which speak for themselves.

All in all while I have some trust in local Gardai but I can’t say I would trust the force as a whole going on my own personal experiences.

Imposter

Imo the guards are not effective at doing there job.

There is a lot of corruption in the force and while mostly little things like doing a favour here or there for someone it shouldn't be happening. There is definitely a need for an ombudsman.

Then there is the problems they face. There are underfunded and underresourced and this obviously causes problems. The law and all it's loopholes as well as the lack of prison places doesn't help. If the political will was there and both of these things were changed I'd hope the force would adapt and become more effective. Unfortunately I don't think the political will is there.

Another issue is the attitude of the guards to do their job. Any experiences I have had with them reporting things like a break-in to a car or a house and you never hear from them again. In some of those cases there were leads they could easily have followed up on but didn't.

They also shy away from putting themselves in any danger. While this is understandable maybe it would be an idea if they were armed. They would get more respect from the public but they would need to be totally accountable too.

I also feel that they concentrate on enforcing laws which don't really affect society at large ahead of dealing with real crimes. Things such as closing a pub that stays open to long, speeding fines for someone who is not driving dangerously as well as giving hassle to people for drug use that harms nobody. While these are illegal, they are just easy targets for them to police and act more as revenue gathering devices rather than anything with any real benifit to society. Society at large would have a lot more respect if they were to concentrate more on getting the criminals off the streets and making it safer for all of us.

bohsboy

And what exactly was your problem with the Lusk bank raid? A great day for the ordinary decent people of this land. Two less dirt for us to deal with. Result

BuffyBot

I'd like to see the commissioner not being appointed by the government.... but by a commitee of senior Garda officers

Please tell me you're kidding. That kind of set-up is exactly what the force doesn't need

DemonOfTheFall

It is my opinion that maybe 30-40% of the Guards are useless.

Selling/Using/Giving to their kids any hash or fireworks that they confiscate.

Shouting abuse at people, intimidating them, giving them digs/thumps with a torch when they werent even resisting them.

Doing nothing about reported incidents, at all. Not even pretending that they will.

Completely ignoring any reports/statements from minors. If youre not an adult forget about the useless pigs giving you any help.

As for policing scum bags.... Hah! It's well known that guards in shankill wont even go into the local council estate. Theyre afraid of the place. Granted they could do with guns, but as it is they wont even go near the place.

Don't even get me started on how many times they've left my mum (a nurse) alone with crazed, drunk, scumbag travellers who could knife her. Even after being called out they just dont want to hear it.

Id be happy to see the majority of them take a severe, bloody beating for their conduct.

mike65

mcguiver wrote:

I'd like to see the commissioner not being appointed by the government.... but by a commitee of senior Garda officers ,maybe then Gardai would chase alleged dodgy politicians and not have to worry about their career going nowhere !

Ditto Buffybot. The above sounds like the old boys network at its worst. Anyway it could'nt happen the commissioner has to be directly accountable to the Minister ie the man above him, not a cabal "below" him.

Mike.

Alun

I've lived in a good few European countries in my lifetime, and any dealings I've ever had with the police there they have always been polite, professional and efficient, and, whenever I've seen them out and about performing their duty they've been the same.

But Ireland is the only place where I have witnessed Gardai using foul language to complete strangers on the street. It was in Dublin, at the bottom of Grafton St. near the Molly Malone statue, where I saw a motorcycle Gardai shout "Get out of my f**king way, are ye f**king blind, or what?" to a dawdling American tourist, an older woman of about 60 or so. This kind of thing is just not acceptable. What kind of impression are tourists going to get from this kind of behaviour?

tomMK1

Earthman wrote:

could you post some facts about this please?

It may be recalled that a Fianna Fáil Government appointed the late Judge Barra O'Briain to investigate the activities of the "Heavy Gang" in the mid-1970s.

http://www.cfj.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=95&Itemid=0

Nevada

zuma wrote:

I still rember a friend of mine who called a garda a "Fat Pig" and got a thump in the gut for his troubles!!!

Your Friend deserved a thump in the gut, would have given him one myself

Wheely

seamus wrote:

The Richie Barron case there I think is about the only one I think reflects badly on the Gardai as a whole. That kid in Clonmel could just as easily died in a hospital, someone just forgot to check on him overnight. A serious **** up, but these things happen.

.

Thats quite easy for you to say since he's not your little brother or son. Also recent developments in that Clonmel case have shown that the man charged with that kids manslaughter was chargde by the gargai without the DPP's office's ok. Thats illegal in itself....bypassing the Dpp's office and taking it upon themselves to charge someone with a charge as serious as manslaughter is a little fishy methinks...tho ill ewait for more facts before i make any rash assupmtions