Our Police Force: Proud??

Wheely

bohsboy wrote:

And what exactly was your problem with the Lusk bank raid? A great day for the ordinary decent people of this land. Two less dirt for us to deal with. Result

My problem with the Lusk post office not bank raid was that out of 6 robbers there was only one gun which waqs never fired and two of them were shot dead. I just dont think it was necassary to kill two people if there was oinly one gun which was never fired. RTE repeatedly reported that there was an exchange of gunfore when this was simply not true. The Irish Times was also critical enough of how the situation was handled and gave wide coverage to the employess of the place who were peed at not being told what was going down which was a garda sting operation. They said that they didnt know whon was a gaurd and who was a robber....now i know that this isnt exactly abig deal but ill wager that if a civilian had have been killed on the op the whole country wouldve felt a lot different about the whole thing. Also you might think they were dirt but who are you to judge the worth of a person. They were human beings whether you like it or not, they had fathers and mothers and people who cared about them. They didnt need to be shot dead. Also Amnesty International condemned the killings nearly as soon as they happened...theyre pretty well respected you know...

Boggle

Reasons I don't trust the gardai:

- Drank with some in a pub and watched them drive off home ****faced - tehy told me that if they were stopped all they had to do was flash the badge.
- Reported the person who stole the fathers computer. Nothing happened so the father went up to the lads house and "collected" it.
- Had the pleasure of seeing a few of the local gardai calling up to the ex's for a few cans over a major festival in town while on duty. They had to leg it after a while as there was a fight over the other end of town where they were supposed to be.
- Seen photos of the whole of the local garda station absolutely ****faced in the barracks one night - drinking the confiscated boozefrom kids.
- the fact that they were branding my brothers gf's crash as speed related until the firechief sent my father and myself for a camera to show the amount of oil on the road.
- the way a certain member of the gardai used to harass my brother.
- because a certain member of the gardai let a boyracer burn to death by not calling the fireservice until much too late (out of negligence).

... a bit too many incidents from a single person to consider myself proud innit?


That being said there are many people who did join the force for the right reasons but find themselves unable to carry out their jobs due to lack of funding. And to anyone discussing the barron case - I'd remind you not to draw any conclusions until after the inquiry as the two guys fuelling the case are two of the scummiest people in the town and you couldn't trust a word coming from either.

bohsboy

:rolleyes: I don't believe there are people out here listening to that Amnetsy ****e over the Lusk shootings. If your brother or sister was one of those gardai would you be thinking along similar lines. If you go into a post office with a gun you have to be prepared to live with the consequences. These fools were ordered to put the gun down to which they refused. A justifiable and commendable act of self defence followed. Certainly brightened up my day anyway.

bohsboy

Another thing, "they had mothers and fathers who loved them"??? Don't make me vomit. How about the ordinary, DECENT and HARD WORKING workers in post offices, banks, shops who have had to put up with these type of scumbags for years? They have family who love them also and expect them to be safe in their workplace.

Rubbish.

murphaph

bohsboy wrote:

Another thing, "they had mothers and fathers who loved them"??? Don't make me vomit. How about the ordinary, DECENT and HARD WORKING workers in post offices, banks, shops who have had to put up with these type of scumbags for years? They have family who love them also and expect them to be safe in their workplace.

Rubbish.

Agreed. Decent people are indeed worth more than the scum the ERU 'terminated'. It brightened up my day too when I heard they wouldn't be terrorising any more innocent folk. That was a good day of police work, there are plenty of areas for improvement though-manners are often lacking from the Guards.

pete

A garda inspector has been charged with three public order offences, including being drunk and disorderly, following a disturbance at a fast food restaurant in Co Tipperary last weekend.

The inspector was arrested along with his wife and his brother-in-law at the Abrakebabra fast food restaurant in Templemore last Friday night.

All three were taken to Templemore Garda Station and were released on station bail after being charged. They are due to appear before Templemore District Court in September.

It is understood the garda inspector, who has 30 years service and is based at Garda Headquarters in Dublin, became extremely agitated after he put money into a jelly bean machine and did not get any sweets.

It is understood the man put a euro coin into the machine twice but the machine accepted different coins and did not return his money or any sweets. The man became extremely upset and staff at the outlet called the gardaí.

Gardaí tried to calm the man but when he refused to move on he was arrested. His wife subsequently became annoyed and she was also arrested along with the man's brother-in-law.

In a separate incident, a garda in north Dublin is under investigation after he is alleged to have picked up a woman in an official garda van while on duty and took her for a walk on Dollymount Strand.

The man was reported to senior officers by a probation garda who was with him on duty.

The matter is now being investigated by a chief superintendent.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0720/tipperary.html

FTA69

I'd also like to see some instances-some mind-not one or two but the widespead examples that you are going on about.

And how can a link possibly be provided for the instances I outlined? I am relating my personal experiences of having lived in a working-class area in Cork City, both my mother and myself have often called the police regarding joyriders in our former locality only to have them arrive late, or not arrive at all. They weren't however, late in questioning me when I was handing out anti-collusion leaflets in Waterford City a few weeks ago.

could you post some facts about this please

http://irsm.org/history/starryplough/free_nicky_kelly.html

Before you deride the above link because of its source I would remind you that it contains extracts of Kelly's own statement as well as doctor's reports.

Ah this would be the harrassment in free west waterford that you mention so much at every opportunity.
Could I take this opportunity yet again to ask you to present some evidence of this widespread carry on.
Some local newspaper articles would be nice,some links to the national dailies perhaps or perhaps an mpeg link to a phone in on Beat 102?

I do not mention it "so much" at all Earthman, I bring it up on topics that are related to the police. Again, what proof can one have of an incident that is basically unprovable. All I can give you is my first-hand experience of the police, I was stopped twice in one day a few weeks ago in Waterford, once for handing out leaflets and the other for legally picketing. I was again harrassed and accused of having "military training" because I did not provide answers to questions I was not obliged to give a response to.

tim3115

My problem with the Lusk post office not bank raid was that out of 6 robbers there was only one gun which waqs never fired and two of them were shot dead. I just dont think it was necassary to kill two people if there was oinly one gun which was never fired.

Em, maybe the 6 should have been shot? What's stopping the rest of them from going out and committing the same crime again? Sure wasn't one or two of them on bail?


Oh, bring back the death penalty, oh the joy...

FTA69

Is it true that one of the raiders was shot in the back while running away at Lusk?

FTA69

FTA69 wrote:

Before you deride the above link because of its source I would remind you that it contains extracts of Kelly's own statement as well as doctor's reports.

I love the way you go back 30 years,well before you were born to feed this anti Garda as a whole rant of yours.
By the way I know Nicky Kelly.You do realise that he is now a labour party co councillor in Wicklow?
Are you aware of what he thinks of the Gardaí in general today notwithstanding his earlier lifes experiences ?

I do not mention it "so much" at all Earthman, I bring it up on topics that are related to the police. Again, what proof can one have of an incident that is basically unprovable. All I can give you is my first-hand experience of the police, I was stopped twice in one day a few weeks ago in Waterford, once for handing out leaflets and the other for legally picketing. I was again harrassed and accused of having "military training" because I did not provide answers to questions I was not obliged to give a response to.

I dont know your personal circumstances,but I can tell you that your experiences are like a swallow, they on their own or even with a few others do not a summer make.

I do firmly believe though that we need a Garda ombudsmans office here , that is every bit as powerfull and independent as Nuala O Loans office is in NI.

murphaph

FTA69 wrote:

I was again harrassed and accused of having "military training" because I did not provide answers to questions I was not obliged to give a response to.

Sounds like they were just taking the p*ss out of you more than anything malicious.

pete

Earthman wrote:

a few others

Derek Fairbrother:

The Garda Representative Body, through their then general secretary, Jack Marrinan, launched a strong attack on cheap publicity stunts by politicians, and roundly denied that there could possibly be any substance to the allegations. And a vicious campaign of character assassination began, against Spring and especially against Derek Fairbrother and other members of his family.

The whole tenor of that campaign, which affected the way a great many newspaper people viewed the allegations of brutality, was to the effect that this was a family that was involved in every conceivable sort of skullduggery, and lying about poor, innocent gardaí would be the least they would be capable of.

Four years later, the state quietly apologised to Derek Fairbrother, and gave him nearly half a million euro in settlement.

Ciara and Grainne Walsh:

A GARDA investigation may recommend that prosecutions be brought following allegations made by sisters Ciara and Grainne Walsh, who received €80,000 compensation for injuries sustained while in Garda custody six years ago.

Prime Time: Brendan O'Brien presents a special in-depth report on claims of ill-treatment, corruption and perjury by An Garda Siochana

A Dub in Glasgo

I do not have much experience of the Gardai over the last decade but during the mid to late 1980's and the early 1990's, I had plenty of experience of how the Gardai operate (specifically the Special Branch) I have had the misfortune of being regularly stopped, searched, questioned, arrested, inducements to provide information to the Gardai, house searches with armed Gardai posted outside the house to provide the pretence of something serious, SB visits to my employer to spread rumours, SB visits to my dads employer to spread rumours.

All this harrassment/intimidation stemmed from me being a member of a legal political party. I have witnessed Gardai assaulting people on 3 separate occassions (I am taking about punches/kicks not technical assaults).

So please forgive me if I do not hold the Gardai in high regard.

murphaph

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

All this harrassment/intimidation stemmed from me being a member of a legal political party.

Which one?

bohsboy

Hopefully.

jank

Whatever about the right and wrongs about the Lusk raid, shooting someone in the back(who was probably unarmed) isnt what I would call good police work.

jank

Whatever about the right and wrongs about the Lusk raid, shooting someone in the back(who was probably unarmed) isnt what I would call good police work.

Which one?

Does it matter?

Nobody should be harassed by the Gardas because of political beliefs.

Dark_Knight

Best police force in the world, irish point of view is to not see how good it was until its gone. Still i would think maybe at most 1 person out of all them complaining may have had any bit of a valid point. I think mostly if someone is doing anything wrong and the gardai they have a negitive attitude.

Besides, its common knowledge that 99% of complaint against guards are bull made up by those arrested. None the less what happens today will have little effect on tomorrow the new policing complaints thing will have some cop-on.

Best thing to do is give the gardai the suuport they need to get the job done. Longer detention times instead of a few hours for some offences should be made a couple of days. A database for photos of people in custody and more important asps instead of battons maybe some pepperspray as well

bonkey

FTA69 wrote:

And how can a link possibly be provided for the instances I outlined? I am relating my personal experiences of having lived in a working-class area in Cork City,

And this, you believe, serves as grounds to form an accurate opinion of the force as a whole, across the entire island?

I must say, having read through this thread, I find it interesting that virtually every poster here who I can identify as a Sinn Fein and/or IRA supporter expresses a lack of faith/trust in our gardai. Such correlation is - I would imagine - not entirely coincidental.

jc

Imposter

Dark_Knight wrote:

Best police force in the world, irish point of view is to not see how good it was until its gone. Still i would think maybe at most 1 person out of all them complaining may have had any bit of a valid point. I think mostly if someone is doing anything wrong and the gardai they have a negitive attitude.

Besides, its common knowledge that 99% of complaint against guards are bull made up by those arrested. None the less what happens today will have little effect on tomorrow the new policing complaints thing will have some cop-on.

Best thing to do is give the gardai the suuport they need to get the job done. Longer detention times instead of a few hours for some offences should be made a couple of days. A database for photos of people in custody and more important asps instead of battons maybe some pepperspray as well

Does all this mean that you don't believe corruption is rife within the force, be that small or large scale? I agree there are a lot of problems with legal and resource issues that the guards have to deal with but there are also serious problems within the force itself that are not being addressed adequately.

Wheely

tim3115 wrote:

Em, maybe the 6 should have been shot? What's stopping the rest of them from going out and committing the same crime again? Sure wasn't one or two of them on bail?


Oh, bring back the death penalty, oh the joy...

Yes maybe the 6 of them should have been shot...i certainly cant argue with the logically flawless argument you've put forth for that course of action. That certainly would have stopped them committing the crime again. You know even when we had the death penalty i dont think it was imposed for robbing post offices but since its the only way to ensure that they dont commit another crime then i suppose thats what we should do. Bring it back in and lower the threshold so that it applies to robbery also. Lemme ask you should we stop at armed robbery or should it be imposed for burglary also? And if so why stop there....what about public order offences? What should the standard of proof be? Should it apply to first time offfenders or only those who are "out on bail" as you put it? Yes lets bring it back...."oh the joy" was it?....do you debate professionally?

Wheely

bohsboy wrote:

:rolleyes: I don't believe there are people out here listening to that Amnetsy ****e over the Lusk shootings. If you go into a post office with a gun you have to be prepared to live with the consequences. These fools were ordered to put the gun down to which they refused. A justifiable and commendable act of self defence followed. Certainly brightened up my day anyway.

Believe it or not Amnesty have done some justifiable and commendable work in their time also but i suppose if you think they're full of ****e then so be it. Also ill repeat that only one went in with a gun, two came out dead. Also i see a big difference in the words justifiable and commendable. I dont think to kill another human being is ever truly commendable.

Wheely

bohsboy wrote:

Another thing, "they had mothers and fathers who loved them"??? Don't make me vomit. How about the ordinary, DECENT and HARD WORKING workers in post offices, banks, shops who have had to put up with these type of scumbags for years? They have family who love them also and expect them to be safe in their workplace.

Rubbish.

Those people are going home to their families every day after work. The two "scumbags" are dead. In any case i dont think your qualified to weigh human life and evaluate that some are more valuble than others. Why dont we go into Dublin and exterminate all the homeless junlies on the streets cas odds are they've robbed someone in their time and probably will again. Hey they're not even an ethnic group so we might get away with it without hearing any of that ****e from those amnesty fools!!!

Kare Bear

Why dont we go into Dublin and exterminate all the homeless junlies on the streets cas odds are they've robbed someone in their time and probably will again. Hey they're not even an ethnic group so we might get away with it without hearing any of that ****e from those amnesty fools!!!

Good idea.:p

Rew

FTA69 wrote:

Is it true that one of the raiders was shot in the back while running away at Lusk?

No, one was shot while pointing his gun at the guy who shot him and the 2nd was shot while running at the same guard while reaching in to his jacket. There is CC tv of the whole thing. The 2nd shot was straight after the first one.

Rew

jank wrote:

Whatever about the right and wrongs about the Lusk raid, shooting someone in the back(who was probably unarmed) isnt what I would call good police work.

Stop listening to rumours and check the facts.

A Dub in Glasgo

bonkey wrote:

I must say, having read through this thread, I find it interesting that virtually every poster here who I can identify as a Sinn Fein and/or IRA supporter expresses a lack of faith/trust in our gardai. Such correlation is - I would imagine - not entirely coincidental.

jc

The correlation is there - I would imagine - because those people have first hand experience of Gardai political harrassment/intimidation

seamus

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The correlation is there - I would imagine - because those people have first hand experience of Gardai political harrassment/intimidation

Hatred breeds hatred. I'm pretty sure many Gardai could say the same thing about first hand experience.

pete

bonkey wrote:

And this, you believe, serves as grounds to form an accurate opinion of the force as a whole, across the entire island?

I must say, having read through this thread, I find it interesting that virtually every poster here who I can identify as a Sinn Fein and/or IRA supporter expresses a lack of faith/trust in our gardai. Such correlation is - I would imagine - not entirely coincidental.

jc

*ahem*

and what about those who aren't SF supporters?

SparkyLarks

Am I proud of the Gardai. Yes
Why
We send them out, to deal with what is an incresinly violent criminal element armed with a stick, and we don;t pay them that well to do it.

Yes there are gardai who arn't perfect. some are corrupt. I'd have no problem with gardai having a party with the confiscated beer. Provided there not on duty at the time. What are they supposed to do with it acution it off??

Any dealing I've had withthe police and they have been very polite and efficant. That said Every bouncer I've dealt with has been polite, even when I got escorted from Havana, rediculously drunk last week.Maybe it's just me.

That said in people do need to complain when ther not happy. We irish are terrible at complaining. When people do complain the do it very confontatinally, down to the garda statin and start shouting. That will get you no where. The guy behind the desk will think well this guy's a nutter and won;t even listen to you. Write a letter detailing your complaint, the gardai against whom your making it if possible, to the local station as well as the gardai complaints board. Then ask to be contacted about it. If you hear nothing back write a second letter and phone.

that way you can say well I wrote a letter and heard nothing back. which would get the local sargent( whoever's in charge of the station) worried that he might be seen to be covering it up.

If you see illegal bahaviour from a gardai and you do nothing you are an accessary, not only that your covering up police corruption.

Oh and foriegn poliece forces( british, just as bad, French, brutal and racist, Itallian corrupt,American just as bad) I don;t think ther is a great police forece out there who are polite to old ladies and tough on criminals, who treat young kids calling them names as rapscallins, Well maybe the Canadians