Phone socket wiring

Benedict XVI

Solair wrote: »

Be very careful about plugging an ATA into an eircom phone line. There's a serious risk you could damage your ATA quite badly.

Even if there's no dial tone on the line, it's very likely it's still connected to the exchange and is being powered. This will at the very least confuse your ATA and at worst actually damage it quite badly.

The other problem is that even if the line's not connected to the eircom exchange, it can be a LOT of cable i.e. several KM. There's no way your ATA can cope with that length of cable.

Hi Solair,
The house is brand new and eircom are still working in the estate to get their service up and running. So I don't think the house has ever been connected to an exchange.

Solair wrote: »

What you can do is open the eircom socket, disconnect the line completely and use electrical tape to insulate the bare ends of the cable, making sure they're not touching each other. Leave all your house's internal wiring connected and then you can connect the ATA to the master socket either by just plugging it in, or by connecting it in place of the phone line.

Is the eircom NTU the master socket ?
I opened the eircom NTU and disconnected the two wires that were connected to it but I still could not get the dial tone on the jack I wanted to. Should I tape the wires I disconnected from the NTU up with electrical tape ?

I cannot connect the ATA to any other phone jack other than the one it is currently connected to as that is where my wireless broadband comes into the house.

Solair

The concept of 'master sockets' and 'slave sockets' was basically abandoned by eircom / telecom eireann quite a long time ago. BT persists with it today.

In the old wiring system they had some circuitry in the master socket that was used to avoid 'tinkling' when you dialed numbers on your extension phones i.e. on when pulse dial and rotary dial phones were still the norm, they would cause other phones in the house to tinkle as they dialed the number. Touch-Tone dialing introduced with the digital exchanges in the 1970s and 80s eliminated this completely.

Basically the line coming into your house is carried on 2 wires. The 'master socket' had some circuitry in it which was used to remove the AC ringing signal from the line and 'shunt' it down a 3rd wire. So, all the internal extension sockets had 3 wires running between them rather than 2. Telephones in those days (and most modern BT phones) have a 3-wire connection. The 3rd wire is used to ring the bell / sound the ringer.

Phones sold on the Irish market since modular plugs were introduced in the late 70s / early 80s do not use 3rd wire ringing at all. Like the US and Canada, they are capable of ignoring spurious signals and won't tinkle and work perfectly well on a 2-wire system.

Irish telephone sockets still contain the necessary circuitry to do 3-wire ringing, but it's never connected. The idea was to preserve backwards compatibility with old rotary dial telephones e.g. if someone had an old 3-wire phone that they wanted to connect to the line this is still possible with a proper eircom socket and some hardwiring and jumper setting!

Also, if you've ever noticed, many BT phones require a bulky adaptor to connect to an Irish line. This adaptor contains the capacitor and other circuitry necessary to shunt the ring signal onto the 3rd wire!! Basically, it's a BT master socket. If a some BT/British spec phones/faxes/modems are connected to a line without this adaptor they will be able to dial out etc, but won't ring as they can't interpret a ringing signal without a master socket shunting it onto a 3rd wire.

Increasingly, UK phones are just plain 2-wire like ours though, but you can never be sure!

Anyway, to get back to the your situation.

You basically need to isolate your internal wiring setup from the eircom network as there is otherwise your ATA will be powering that entire line back to the eircom switch. There's every possibility that eircom could connect something to it, or could put it over to a dial tone. They can at anytime run a line test or connect it to a 'soft dial tone' i.e. if the line's not in service it can still be connected to the exchange. If you pick up the phone it will play out a recorded message and ask if you want to be connected to eircom sales, but you can't make or receive any other calls on it.

So, if that happens you could end up frying damaging your ATA.

If you're on the older beige Telecom Eireann sockets, just open up the first socket in the house where the line comes in and disconnect the line. It'll be obvious which is the line and which is your internal wiring as the internal wiring will usually be beige cable, the line is almost always black.

If it's newer eircom / telecom eireann white sockets (look like the same material as a light switch/electrical socket) you can just open the front of the socket and remove the face plate.

These sockets are designed as a demarkation point between you and the network. Basically there is a second RJ45 socket behind the face plate. The face plate plugs into this and your extension wiring is connected to that place.

So, once the face plate is removed, the internal wiring is completely isolated from the line. It allows an eircom technician to test the line without your internal wiring hooked up.

So, all you'd need to do is remove the face plate and connect your ATA to the socket on the front of the plate. That would leave the internal wiring totally isolated from the eircom network.

Alternatively:

Get an RJ11 cable, cut the plug off on one end.

Remove the face plate on the eircom socket.
You'll find 2 screws behind this in the same position as a normal lightswitch/electrical socket on a second plate.. remove that..

On the back of the plate you'll see two lug-connections with the line connected to them. Simply remove the line and replace with the centre pair from your RJ11 cord!

That will mean your ATA is supplying the house without being connected to the line.

Rechina

HI,
I got to replace my Eircom Master Socket, does anyone know where I can get a replacement socket - fast - Eircom says it takes a technician 4 weeks to come out and do it for me... I probably got to pay for that then aswell.
But all I really need is that socket I can wire it myself...

ethernet

Rechina wrote: »

HI,
I got to replace my Eircom Master Socket, does anyone know where I can get a replacement socket - fast - Eircom says it takes a technician 4 weeks to come out and do it for me... I probably got to pay for that then aswell.
But all I really need is that socket I can wire it myself...

Why do you want another replacement? Is the one they installed causing trouble?

Rechina

I haven't got a replacement yet as it takes 4 weeks for someone from Eircom to come out and install one, the one I have at the moment is broken.

ethernet

In the meantime, just pick up a bog standard socket from any DIY store. I'm sure you'd be well able to wire it -- only two wires needed.

whosedaddy?

I have a differnt problem.

The house I moved into has a couple of sockets aroudn the house. Every phone can pick up the call and other phones can lift up and join the call. What can I do so that only on phone can ever pick up the call and block the others from "listening in"? Can this be solved by differnt wiring topology or a little device in the line?

Thanks.
/daz

flywheel

Hi, trying to locate the phone line in an apartment and found this under a blanking plate (only camera phone to hand sorry!)... no other sign of a phone line anywhere so assuming this is it?



Trying to work out from the other posts on the thread is:
L1 (R1): Blue (White)
L2 (T1): White/Blue

So do i need to wire L1 and L2 to a NTU and then see if it is still connected to the exchange?

thanks

Jonathan

Hi,

I had esat bt back in the dialer box days so during the installation they kinda made a mess of the wires. But could be made redundant so i didnt really care. image (exchange line is coming out of the hole on the ground beside the TE box.)

But recently ive noticed verdigris on the contacts of the esat box. image

So i want to bypass the esat box (image) totally and go back to the way it originally was using the eircom box (image) alone. Would I be correct in saying that to get it back I simply need to connect the orange wire coming in to L2 and the blue wire to L1?

overall image

Thanks

ethernet

jmccrohan wrote: »

Hi,

I had esat bt back in the dialer box days so during the installation they kinda made a mess of the wires. But could be made redundant so i didnt really care. image (exchange line is coming out of the hole on the ground beside the TE box.)

But recently ive noticed verdigris on the contacts of the esat box. image

So i want to bypass the esat box (image) totally and go back to the way it originally was using the eircom box (image) alone. Would I be correct in saying that to get it back I simply need to connect the orange wire coming in to L2 and the blue wire to L1?

overall image

Thanks

Thanks for the clear photos. I'm only a DIYer at this but yes, I think that's all there is too it. Have the same wall-mounted sockets and L1 and L2 are the bottom terminals. Don't know why the other pair was connected (tidiness?) in your Esat box -- I'm guessing they're not in use if you only have the one line.

Jonathan

ethernet wrote: »

Thanks for the clear photos. I'm only a DIYer at this but yes, I think that's all there is too it. Have the same wall-mounted sockets and L1 and L2 are the bottom terminals. Don't know why the other pair was connected (tidiness?) in your Esat box -- I'm guessing they're not in use if you only have the one line.

Thanks for the reply but i got it done myself, yea i did as i said and its working grand.
Downstream SNR has gone from 10dB to 12dB. Now up to 6Mbps... Gotta keep pushing for that 1.6* more :P

*Unobtainable, i know.

plica06

Hello

I'm sorry if this question has been asked a hundred times already!

My question is: how do I connect a CAT 5 cable from a Network Terminating Unit (NTU) in the hallway to a telephone socket I would buy in Woodies DIY? See attached file of a NTU.

Where I live, CAT 5 wiring is in place for several phone extension sockets, but none of them have yet been installed, there are just metal plates screwed onto the walls concealing the wires.

I know it's something to do with L1 and L2 on the NTU and then you only use the middle two red and green contacts on hardware store sockets. I'm not sure about which wires exactly to use at either end and does the colour matter and how might it affect my eircom broadband?

Inside the cabling there are 8 wires in 4 pairs: Brown/White, Blue/White, Orange/White and Green/White. I have eircom broadband and read on here somewhere that it does matter what colour wires you use.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Plica

Sponge Bob

L1 and L2

Colour irrelevant .

Full guide here !!

http://www.reci.ie/technicalinfo/eircominterface.pdf

plica06

Sponge Bob

Cheers for the reply.

I've had a look at http://www.reci.ie/technicalinfo/eircominterface.pdf and I opened up the Network Terminating Unit (NTU) in my hallway so I can see the L1 and L2 connectors for extensions. Currently there are three CAT 5 cables protruding into the NTU but none of them are connected to the L1/L2.

I read that you only need 2 of the 8 wires in the CAT5 cable, they connect to L1 and L2 and that you only use the middle two red and green contacts at the extension socket end.

Here are my questions:
1. Say I use a single blue/white pair in the CAT 5 cable. Does the blue go into L1 and the white into L2 or vice versa or does it matter?
2. At the other end, where you attach a socket, I'll use the same blue/white pair but which contact (red/green) in the socket does the blue and white join to?
3. To confuse things, I read on here that you "need the red and green wires on the L1 and the L2 for the master socket":
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51020770&postcount=18
Will my broadband be affected if I install the extension line like in 1. and 2. above?
4. Is it ok to buy any kind of socket from say, Woodies DIY? Should I go for built in surge protection or anything?

Thanks again for your help.

Plica

Sponge Bob

plica06 wrote: »

I read that you only need 2 of the 8 wires in the CAT5 cable, they connect to L1 and L2 and that you only use the middle two red and green contacts at the extension socket end.



Here are my questions:
1. Say I use a single blue/white pair in the CAT 5 cable. Does the blue go into L1 and the white into L2 or vice versa or does it matter?

yes pick a pair and no it does not matter which of the pair.

2. At the other end, where you attach a socket, I'll use the same
blue/white pair but which contact (red/green) in the socket does the blue and white join to?

trial and error there but you use the same pair

watty

Blue pair would be the normal, as it is the centre pair on an RJ45 plug or patch panel used for ethernet or phones. It generally works either way round. The middle pair on RJ45 not used for ethernet.

plica06

Thanks guys for your help.

I got my phone extensions wired up. I can make calls and the broadband works on them too. Although there is noticable hiss coming from the earpiece when I plug the same phone into an extension socket compared with the "master" NTU socket even when there is a broadband filter in place. However, the broadband does not seem to be any slower when the router is plugged into the extension sockets compared with the "master" NTU socket.

In case anyone else has the same problem, here are the answers to the questions in my original post:

1. Say I use a single blue/white pair of wires in the CAT 5 cable. Does the blue go into L1 and the white into L2 or vice versa or does it matter?

ANSWER = It does not matter what colour pair but for sake of convention go for the blue/white pair. The other 4 pairs of wires (8 in total) are not used at all. It doesn't matter which wire you put into L1 or L2 of the NTU unit as long as there is only one wire in each. If you were wiring up two extension sockets then you would wrap two blues together and put them into, say L1 and then the same for two whites and then these into L2.


2. At the other end, where you attach a socket, I'll use the same blue/white pair but which contact (red/green) in the socket does the blue and white join to?

ANSWER = Again it does not matter. As long as you put one wire onto each of the two center-most contacts. There are usually 4 contacts in a telephone socket, the center-most ones aren't always coloured red/green but it will be obvious which two they are.


3. To confuse things, I read on here that you "need the red and green wires on the L1 and the L2 for the master socket":
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...0&postcount=18 Will my broadband be affected if I install the extension line like in 1. and 2. above?

ANSWER = The master socket referred to in this posting must not be a Network Terminating Unit (NTU) but an older style master socket. When installing an extension line in the more modern NTU's it is NOT the case that you "need the red and green wires on the L1 and the L2". My phoneline and broadband is working fine with the way I installed it as per Q1 and Q2 above.


4. Is it ok to buy any kind of socket from say, Woodies DIY? Should I go for built in surge protection or anything?

ANSWER = The modern NTU's have built in surge protection. Telephone sockets from Woodies work just fine but they look kinda cheap, compared to the other power sockets and light fixtures you probably already have in your place. Personally I went for the Euro 3 Woodies socket.

--> Note to others with the same kind of problem I had!! <--
Feel free to PM my any questions. I will give you a full and detailed explanation. I will use simple English that you can understand. I will actually respond to ALL the individual questions you may have for me.

Ricky91t

Hah i just rewired my eircom one(crap phone calls)if only i saw this would of made my life easier

lucernarian

plica06 wrote: »

Thanks guys for your help.

ANSWER = The modern NTU's have built in surge protection. Telephone sockets from Woodies work just fine but they look kinda cheap, compared to the other power sockets and light fixtures you probably already have in your place. Personally I went for the Euro 3 Woodies socket.

Are you sure about that? The NTU we have doesn't have adequate surge protection if any at all. Our modem and the surge protection connected just before it, were both fried during a severe electrical storm here. The surge travelled through the NTU of less than a year old without damaging it whatsoever. Any stuff they have on the eircom end of the socket are probably decoupling capacitors.

The NTU is completely white with the eircom logo moulded into it. It's nearly 3 years old.

ethernet

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Are you sure about that? The NTU we have doesn't have adequate surge protection if any at all. Our modem and the surge protection connected just before it, were both fried during a severe electrical storm here. The surge travelled through the NTU of less than a year old without damaging it whatsoever. Any stuff they have on the eircom end of the socket are probably decoupling capacitors.

The NTU is completely white with the eircom logo moulded into it. It's nearly 3 years old.

Heard this before as well. Not an electronic engineer by any mark but they components on the NTU do resemble some sort of capacitors. Damn all good they did a few weeks ago when I had one terminal on an extension socket completely toasted (along with a microfilter), all after passing through a junction box :eek:

royan

That useful PDF seems to have moved: http://reci.ie/Portals/0/RECIDocuments/technicalinfo/eircominterface.pdf

ryanch09

hey thanks for this post! been lookin for something like this for ages! stupid extension line has my dsl going constantly but finally i can fix it!:D:D:D:D:D

curlex

Hi ! somehow I managed to break my phone socket and from this thread I found out where to put the wires and what colour goes where my problem is that I don't have a IDC tool and was wondering if there was another thing I could use instead because the wires don't want to fit in they go in and my broadband starts to work but then when I move it , it disconnects. And should i have a lot of wire (metal) exposed or should it stay covered as much as possible?

lucernarian

It can be done with a fair bit of difficulty with a small pair of pliers, preferably long-nosed ones, and a flatblade screwdriver. It's usually easier to get an ordinary white box telephone socket from a supermarket or DIY shop. You can use a screwdriver (or knife if nothing else) to connect the wires for that.

Kashkai

My mother's broadband was always a bit hit and miss but she's lost it completely now and her provider - Perlico - are worse than useless in helping her out.

Now I believe the problem is that the house's phone wiring is old (about 20 years +) and she has her pc, 2 telephones and 2 SKY boxes all routed off the line via small junction ports that can be bought in any DIY store, which I believe is interfering with the DSL signal.

Now is it possible to run a new cable from the point where the phone line attaches to the house to her pc where I can set up a new master socket and then route new extensions from there or should I call out Eircom to fit a new NTU in the house as the old beige one is cracked (from getting whacked by the hoover when she's cleaning the house) and see if that improves matters on the internal phone wiring.

cpu-dude

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

My mother's broadband was always a bit hit and miss but she's lost it completely now and her provider - Perlico - are worse than useless in helping her out.

Now I believe the problem is that the house's phone wiring is old (about 20 years +) and she has her pc, 2 telephones and 2 SKY boxes all routed off the line via small junction ports that can be bought in any DIY store, which I believe is interfering with the DSL signal.

Now is it possible to run a new cable from the point where the phone line attaches to the house to her pc where I can set up a new master socket and then route new extensions from there or should I call out Eircom to fit a new NTU in the house as the old beige one is cracked (from getting whacked by the hoover when she's cleaning the house) and see if that improves matters on the internal phone wiring.

Eircom will fix the faceplate, they have to make sure every house has the first NTU fixed and working. Secondly, your setup sounds terrible. Every device in the house has to be filtered so they can work together. What's important is that only the DSL signal goes to the router. See below at the images from Google:

Kashkai

cpu-dude wrote: »

Eircom will fix the faceplate, they have to make sure every house has the first NTU fixed and working. Secondly, your setup sounds terrible. Every device in the house has to be filtered so they can work together. What's important is that only the DSL signal goes to the router. See below at the images from Google:

So, if I get a ADSL filter (one with a "telephone port" and a separate "pc modem" port) and attach it to the main NTU so that only the DSL signal gets run to the pc and then run the the phones and SKY boxes off the "phone" port, it might help matters. But should I still ask Perlico to request that Eircom call out to replace the NTU box anyway as the existing box and incoming line is over 20 years old and both have been bashed and are damaged/frayed in places.

cpu-dude

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

So, if I get a ADSL filter (one with a "telephone port" and a separate "pc modem" port) and attach it to the main NTU so that only the DSL signal gets run to the pc and then run the the phones and SKY boxes off the "phone" port, it might help matters. But should I still ask Perlico to request that Eircom call out to replace the NTU box anyway as the existing box and incoming line is over 20 years old and both have been bashed and are damaged/frayed in places.

Yes that's all you need to do, try do that first with your current setup but should definately request a new NTU through Perlico, at some point.

Kashkai

Rang perlico and they told me that they'll have to send in a request to Eircom for a new NTU to be installed in my mother's house and that this could take up to 4 weeks!! So I've decided to replace the NTU myself (I've done this before and its no big deal).

Running a new cable upstairs will be the problem as the existing phone cable (that I discovered was frayed in several places - surprising it works at all) is mostly under carpets/wooden floors and I'm not going to the hassle of taking these up to run a new cable (my mother would freak if I left the new cable visible on top of skirting boards etc. (don't ask :rolleyes:). So I'm thinking about getting a wireless modem to plug into the new telephone port in the hallway and put the receiver upstairs beside her pc in the bedroom (directly above the telephone point in the hallway below - distance of about 10 feet maximum). Now I personally am not a fan of wifi as my previous experience of them is a lot of dropped signals/interference and thats why I had my whole house wired with CAT 5 cabling in all rooms so I would have hardwired internet access for my pc, laptop, PS3 etc. However wifi could be the solution for my mother as the signal wouldn't have too far to travel and it'll solve the problem of running a new cable. So are there any recommendations for a good wifi modem that won't cost the earth (as I'm buying it!) and where to buy, PC World, Maplins etc.

ropers

royan wrote: »

That useful PDF seems to have moved: http://reci.ie/Portals/0/RECIDocuments/technicalinfo/eircominterface.pdf

Try this.