memetics

rowan

your thoughts on this:

What is the difference between a meme and a mind virus?

DadaKopf

More Dawkins I see. The RunDMC of old skool neo-Darwinism.

Eh...check this out: http://www.memecentral.com/ .

Also, not to be confused with 'mimetic':
mi·met·ic (m-mtk, m-)
adj.
Relating to, characteristic of, or exhibiting mimicry.

Of or relating to an imitation; imitative.
Using imitative means of representation: a mimetic dance.

rowan

yeh, I've read all that. Let me rephrase the question.

Dawkins makes a big deal out of the difference between memes and mind viruses. Successful replicating ideas that are beneficial to people and society are memes. Eg. the concept of a woodsaw is meme that helps humans shape wood faster into useful, beneficial objects like tables and chairs. Successful replicating ideas that degrade humanity and do evil in society are mind viruses. Eg. the concept of using remote control electroshock belts, used to torture prisoners in 12 African countries, is obviously an evil mind virus since it causes intense pain and doesn't leave scars.
So, meme=good, mind virus=bad. One point that is usually stressed is that memes, like genes, don't 'care' about the effects they have, they just want to copy, copy, copy.
But from the viewpoint of an Ogoni tribe in Nigeria watching their local rainforest habitat being cut down, the concept of the woodsaw, which seems to be replicating everywhere, is a bad, bad thing: mind virus. Since both memes and mind viruses don't 'care' about external effects, the line betwen them is slightly blurred. Ask a Texas Prison commisioner about the use electroshock belts and he'll tell you they've reduced assaults on prison wardens no end: meme.
For me, the line is so blurred, there is zero difference, only who's naming it what, and the beliefs and morals of the namer. A meme for me is a mind virus for you and so on. Has Dawkins missed something?

Ri-ra

Dada- Why do you say Dawkins is "old-skool"?

DeVore

I think it takes more then that to be classed as a meme, it has to replicate and have the ability to subtly alter it self if memory serves.

DeV.

Void

Does anyone else think there is a substantial crossover between Theology and Memetics? Good/Evil nothwithstanding, religions constitute the most complicated memes/mind virii affecting the human race.