Evening out the sexes..

Wez

Okay, lately since I've been trying to get on the road, I've been thinking about how it's a couple hundred euro cheaper for a woman to get insured on a car, than a guy. I noticed it was about 500 euro cheaper on a moped, and then I did a comparison on a fiat with a 998 cc engine (cinquecento was what it was based on) and for a 21 year old guy, 3 years no claims, on a prov, third party fire and theft it was €1600. For a girl it was €800, with all the same stats. That's half the price!! I mean, for gods sake! If it was the other way around women would be up in arms about it, but since it's guys, they tend to sit back and just fork it out. Any women I ask about it, they say 'no, that's right, men are worse drivers than women'.

Basically, they're saying, that because I'm a guy, I'm a bad driver. If I was a girl, I pay half the insurance, and nobody seems to disagree!

It's about time something was done about this, because in this day and age, sexism is (should not) be accepted, but here we are, in an everyday situation, and everybody turns a blind eye to it.

If you wanted to get picky, you could point out that there's also a lot of age discrimination going on, but I'd be prepared to bypass that if something was done about the sexism side if this.

Now here's my idea, it's a fact that women tend to have a short fuse around the time of mentration, so, I propose we fine them say 1000 euro a year, for being a women, and therefore having periods and being a bitch.

Who's with me!?

Either that, or make insurance equal for men and women.. It's up to you, be born with a penis and pay extra for your car insurance, or be born with a womb and have periods, costing you money. Seems fair in my eyes..

/rant

P.S. Maybe this is more suited to the motor section, and if so, feel free to move, but I thought it'd be better here, as it's something that should be pointed out, and there seems to be more posting etc going on over here.

snappieT

Say you're a girl. If you need to make a claim, dress up in drag.

Crucifix

I thought this was going to be a pitch for a tv show about Mr and Mrs Sex; "An evening out with the Sexes".

Wez

Actually, I was tempted be pretend I'm one of those guys (like the one in big brother) that's 'been born into the wrong body'..

Actually, thinking about it, I wonder what he put down on his insurance cert..

Kernel

In fairness, I understand what Wez is saying. I can't accept how it is that insurance companies can be allowed to discriminate between people based on their sex. Do they charge higher premiums for black people?

Loobz

Get ready for the statistics etc Wez. Most deaths on roads caused by young male drivers etc. Speeding seems more common with young male drivers. The list goes on. Thers an old saying, 'Dont paint everybody with the same brush'. I, for one, obey the rules of the road. Im a young male driver. Guess what, I have to fork out a fortune for a handful of knobends who think their penis will double in size if the get 100mph out of their Fiesta down a main road with no lights on. While their 'friends' sit quietly in the back as a cop hands him 2 points on his licence and a fine. 2 points is nothing. Sure, it will make for a nice conversation down the pub before driving home drunk. :rolleyes:

Obviously breaking the rules of the road needs to be dealt with in a serious manner, hence penalty points. My theory is that insurance for both male and female drivers should be the same. That is until either one gets pulled for whatever reason. Then their insurance should double with 10 days to pay it. And for each offence from then on, 30% should be added to the cost of insurance. If a repeat offender continues, he/she will have to sit back and try figure out how they can afford to keep their 1 litre car on the road @ 3 grand plus a year. This way, due to penalty insurance cost increases, the nitwits on the road cant afford to insure a car, hence they stop driving altogether.
Kinda like a filtering system.

Insurance is a scam. Plain and simple.

Coney Island

It should be the other way around.

digitally-yours

i think your topic is genuinely true and makes sense

simu

Wow OP - you should be Taoiseach.....




....of Cloud Cuckoo Land.

Sarky

Amp won't let go of those reins easily though.

Pigman II

And here was me looking forward to a thread based on getting people to come out of the closet and then sending them on dates.

Most misleading thread title EVER!

simu

I call general election!

rubadub

Wez wrote:

Basically, they're saying, that because I'm a guy, I'm a bad driver.

NO, NO, NO
They are saying that a person of your sex and age driving a car you mention, living where you live, with an occupation like yours is likely to claim more money PER YEAR than a female in your same situation. NOTHING TO DO WITH DRIVING SKILL.

If guys in your situation crashed everyday, had penalty points coming out their hole, and were pissed 24/7 YET DID NOT CLAIM, then you would be charged less than a female in your situation who did put the odd claim in.

I saw a guy from either the AA or PMPA saying women claim more money per mile than men, but drive far less so in effect claim less per year. Mileage should definitely be taken into account in insurance.

mime

hi girl here agree with you

mime

HI IM A MUM OF FOUR 3 6 7 12 JUST COS IM AMUM DOSE NOT MEAN I CANT HAVE FUN MY KIDS THINK IM MAD SO DOSE MY FREINDS AND HUB IM N TO
THINGTS THAT GO BUMP IN THE NIGHT AND THATS NOT JUST ME IM OK LOOLING WITH MAKE UP (PS IM CRAP AT SPELLING OK SSO YOU GUESSED)IM JUST OUT TO MEET MAD SPOOKY PEOPLE LIKE ME PS MOST HAUNTED IS MY FAV SHOW GET IN TOUCH

AMurphy

rubadub wrote:

......
Mileage should definitely be taken into account in insurance.

It is here. (also your ZIP/Postal code).
we have the truck, spends most of it's time stopped, <3K mls per annum, described as "excess vehicle" ie <5K mls pa bracket.
The other car is in the <12Kpa bracket, I'm listed as the primary driver and the van in the <15Kpa bracket, wife listed as the primary driver.

bazz26

I agree it is unfair for insurance companies to generalise and each policy holder should have their premium calculated on their individual track record rather than the average. Obviously this would not work on drivers just starting out.

I think insurance companies go on the statistics of claims made that young males under the age of 25 have more accidents and make more claims than females in the same catagory.

I think what happens is that females are probably involved in more minor incidents such as bumps or scrapes than the equivilant male. In other words most would not make a claim against their insurance company for scraping their car against a wall in a car park.

Wez

But, why should guys who aren't crashing have to take the brunt of the payouts? Why not make women that don't crash pay too? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Seriously, women are all about equality these days, yet you don't think you should have to pay more for insurance? Get real..

thatkindofgirl

It's a good argument, and one I agree with -- however it's more complicated than that. Insurance companies discriminate on many bases -- not just gender.

1. Where you live (arguably this is class-based discrimination). Is it fair to tell the fella in Rialto he has to pay more insurance than his cousin in the arse-end of leitrim?

2. Ageism. Why is a 40 year old learner less dangerous than an 18 year old learner?

3. Your job.

Unfortunately, that's the way it works. If we want to change the system to one similar to the health-insurance way (everyone pays the same regarldless of risk), we can try to lobby for that. However, at that point, you'll probably find that no claims bonuses don't exist anymore.

Dades

How many friggin' times has this come up... :rolleyes:

It's a business. It based on statistics. Young male drivers cost insurance companies more than any other catagory therefore they charge them more.

In a few years when you all have nice NCBs will you want your premium increased because of successful lobbyists chanting for equality? I doubt it.

Your desperate cries for equality will fade with time when your premium goes down - and you realise that people are equal, but you are now more equal than others....

Boggle

Put it this way - what would happen if a company ,hiring new recruits, had a dual payment policy for men and women (i.e. payed men more than women) as they felt that, based on their own private figures, that men were superior workers??

They'd soon be stopped wouldn't they? Reason being, people have sympathy for women but not for young men.

Dades

Boggle wrote:

Put it this way - what would happen if a company ,hiring new recruits, had a dual payment policy for men and women (i.e. payed men more than women) as they felt that, based on their own private figures, that men were superior workers??

Not the same situation - you're leaving out the relevant statistic.

If you added that the men in your example had a poor record for turning up for work it might be more realistic. Therefore the woman are rewarded for actually turning up for work. It doesn't matter how hard you work if you don't turn up.

Similarly it doesn't matter which sex is the "better" driver, when the better driver costs more to keep on the road than the other.

Boggle

Actually I'm not really - but you are highlighting part of the point i was getting at. The insurance companies compile their own stats and assign importance to each factor as they wish and as far as I know neither you nor I are allowed review the data they collect.

Also I was getting at the point that discriminating based solely on sex would not be tolerated if the victims were (basically) any party other than young drivers...

chicken_food

Iv been thinking of setting up a website for a while now,where young male drivers can go to complain about the ridiculous rates of insurance quoted. Firstly id like to know who can we complain too? Look at germany,over there women pay more for insurance than men cos they are deemed to be more of a risk. Why is there no consistency throughout europe?

If i can find out who we could complain too,(regulatory authourity) id be more than happy to pay for hosting etc if it ment we got a fair deal. I dont think anyone begrudges 100 or 200 euro but when you'r quoted on twice what they pay i think its just unfair.

Wez

chicken_food wrote:

Iv been thinking of setting up a website for a while now,where young male drivers can go to complain about the ridiculous rates of insurance quoted.

Right behind ya! I'm on a motorbike forum, and every year protests are held outside the government buildings to demonstrate against high insurance for bikes. It kinda gets a voice out there, but if cars and everything came to complain and made themselves known, then it'll have more of an effect.

chicken_food

maybe something like www.equalinsurance.com. I'd like to think with a fair bit of national interest some good could come of it! IF theres much interest here on the forum il do my best to set it up this week. Its worth the 10€ a year!

Guy:Incognito

snappieT wrote:

Say you're a girl. If you need to make a claim, dress up in drag.

On that note, if you get a sex change from man to woman are you suddenly a better driver and do you qualify as a woman? Seeing as the only thing that changes is the physical aspects of your body, you still think the same as when you were a man, so should they still be allowed to charge you as a man?

thatkindofgirl

The theory here would be that your "sex change" operation was merely making the outward manifestation of your gender match your inward identity -- therefore merely making your physical gender match your mental one.

Under this theory, if your mental gender was female, you would already be driving like a woman because your behaviours and attitudes would be female.

Under Irish law, however, you are never a different sex than when you are born. Even someone with the full operation living decades in Ireland would have to present as their original sex -- unlike the UK, etc.

Stekelly wrote:

On that note, if you get a sex change from man to woman are you suddenly a better driver and do you qualify as a woman? Seeing as the only thing that changes is the physical aspects of your body, you still think the same as when you were a man, so should they still be allowed to charge you as a man?

Boggle

Iv been thinking of setting up a website for a while now,where young male drivers can go to complain about the ridiculous rates of insurance quoted. Firstly id like to know who can we complain too? Look at germany,over there women pay more for insurance than men cos they are deemed to be more of a risk. Why is there no consistency throughout europe?

There is the MIJAG site, but I've been watching it for years and he only seems to do anything pro-active around election times.

Personally I'd advocate blocking the crap out of Dublin (drive at 1mph or whatever)... sooner or later the govt would have to at least comment on the issue then.

Guy:Incognito

Boggle wrote:

Personally I'd advocate blocking the crap out of Dublin (drive at 1mph or whatever)... sooner or later the govt would have to at least comment on the issue then.

Yeah then you get done for dangerous driving and end up having to pay more again.

Dades

Boggle wrote:

There is the MIJAG site, but I've been watching it for years and he only seems to do anything pro-active around election times.

His insurance probably got cheaper while he was waiting for something to happen.