London Underground under attack? [merged thread]

Chucky the tree

Arabel wrote:

He was Brazialian, in Brazil they speak Portuguese, in his language Police is polícias, which I can only assume is damn well said close enough to english that he could understand (through my terribly basic Spanish at least).

As for Livingstone's quote, in a way it is down to the terrorists. If they hadnt attacked London in the first place that poor man would still be alive. No?

SOme because THe world police is kinda of similiar in portuguese he should of known? right........


If iraqi wasnt invaded would the terrorists of bombed london? i doubt it. Why didnt he blame it on that?

Dub13

Chucky the tree wrote:

If iraqi wasnt invaded would the terrorists of bombed london?

Probably seems as the World Trade Center attacks happened before the invasion of iraqi

Chucky the tree

Dub13 wrote:

But if he was a suicide bomber and he was just incapacitated then he could still have set off the device

They tackled him to the ground and jumped on top of him, when didnt they grab his hands instead of unloading 5 bullets into his head?

Cake Fiend

Bearing in mind the circumstances, I think the police acted appropriately. It's unfortunate that there was a tragic outcome to the whole thing, but if it had been the other way around, a bomber not being shot in time, there would have been far more grave results.

They are trained professionals, I'll go with their opinion over anyone sitting behind a keyboard.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

It will certainly strike terror and fear into anyone who may have the wrong 'look' or someone who may not want the Police questioning them (low level criminal who may be in possession, failed asylum seeker, illegal immigrant, someone who does not understand English). You can be shot 5 times in the head whilest being held down for your troubles. Nice.

We're not talking about random pot-shotting here. If you're running from armed police who demand that you stop on a day that bombs are exploding all over london, tough sh1t. The police have to prioritize the safety of the public.

danniemcq wrote:

well officially whnen shooting a suspect the police force are told to aim for the largest body mass (ie the chest) and i do feel 5 in the head while on top of him was OTT, a shot to the chest would have probably incapacitated him enough

Not when they're dealing with a suspected suicide bomber - Israeli standard procedure (for example) is to go for a headshot for instant incapacitation and less risk of hitting explosives.

Dinner

Chucky the tree wrote:

SOme because THe world police is kinda of similiar in portuguese he should of known? right........


If iraqi wasnt invaded would the terrorists of bombed london? i doubt it. Why didnt he blame it on that?

Well he would have a had a fair chance of understanding it. Before I knew any, German for example, if some shouted polizei at me I would have known what they were talking about.


If the terrorists had never done 9/11 Iraq wouldnt have been invaded. So thats back to the terrorists fault again. (I know we're gone to really indirect links, but, meh..)

Chucky the tree

Dub13 wrote:

Probably seems as the World Tred Center attacks happened before the invasion of iraqi

That was an attack against American foreigh policy, not british. The world tade centre attack had nothing to do with britian.

Chucky the tree

Arabel wrote:

If the terrorists had never done 9/11 Iraq wouldnt have been invaded. So thats back to the terrorists fault again. (I know we're gone to really indirect links, but, meh..)

And you think there was no reason behind 9/11 attacks? We could going in circles for hours so lets stop here.


Livingstone should of taken it on the chin and blamed the police, or at least kept his trap shout. From what he said, it bascially seems like the police shouldnt take any responsibility.

Dinner

Chucky the tree wrote:

And you think there was no reason behind 9/11 attacks? We could going in circles for hours so lets stop here.

Well to quote yourself, American Foreign policy was to balme. Hardly a legitimate excuse to fly planes into stuff.

Anyway, your right. Stopped.

county

danniemcq wrote:

well officially whnen shooting a suspect the police force are told to aim for the largest body mass (ie the chest) and i do feel 5 in the head while on top of him was OTT, a shot to the chest would have probably incapacitated him enough

sorry mate bad point,the police have been told to aim for the head[head shot]in a terrorist situation,if you shoot a terrorist in the chest chances are he or she has a bomb strap on, not only do you kill the terrorist and your self,you kill anyone in a 50 yard radius

CJhaughey

IMHO the apologists for the cops here would take an entirely different view if the deceased had been a friend or relative.
Irish male shot while attempting to escape from armed mob....
it's not so long since a guy was shot for holding a chair leg.

TerrorFirmer

Sico wrote:

Bearing in mind the circumstances, I think the police acted appropriately. It's unfortunate that there was a tragic outcome to the whole thing, but if it had been the other way around, a bomber not being shot in time, there would have been far more grave results.

They are trained professionals, I'll go with their opinion over anyone sitting behind a keyboard.



We're not talking about random pot-shotting here. If you're running from armed police who demand that you stop on a day that bombs are exploding all over london, tough sh1t. The police have to prioritize the safety of the public.



Not when they're dealing with a suspected suicide bomber - Israeli standard procedure (for example) is to go for a headshot for instant incapacitation and less risk of hitting explosives.

At least someone here can speak sensibly! This is exactly what I was going to say, until I noticed your post.

Dinner

CJhaughey wrote:

IMHO the apologists for the cops here would take an entirely different view if the deceased had been a friend or relative.
Irish male shot while attempting to escape from armed mob....
it's not so long since a guy was shot for holding a chair leg.

Yes of course it would. But that would be letting personal feelings interfere over logic.

And I believe that we've been over the chair leg one in another thread already.

A Dub in Glasgo

CJhaughey wrote:

...
it's not so long since a guy was shot for holding a chair leg.

Some nosey neighbour reported to the police that an Irishman had a gun. The silly bint mistook the mans Scottish accent for an Irish accent and the table leg in a plastic bag for a gun. Of course, the police believed her!!

county

bint?

danniemcq

county wrote:

sorry mate bad point,the police have been told to aim for the head[head shot]in a terrorist situation,if you shoot a terrorist in the chest chances are he or she has a bomb strap on, not only do you kill the terrorist and your self,you kill anyone in a 50 yard radius

that announcment only came out after the guy was shot. it was a classified order. and a shot to the chest might not set off the bomb as it usually needs a trigger mechonisim to be realeased or pressed. granted the chance is there for an explosion but it's just strange in my head, shoot the head for a sure kill or shoot in the chest and maybe kill loads.

in my opinion there should be different take down methods ie tazor guns etc that would make the suspect lose control of his muscles therfore leaving him/her helpless

A Dub in Glasgo

MobileInfantry wrote:

At least someone here can speak sensibly! This is exactly what I was going to say, until I noticed your post.

Everyone posting here thinks they are posting sensibly, you cannot just dismiss other peoples views as stupid

CJhaughey

so it is OK for the cops to shoot an innocent guy 5 times in the head because he was *thought* to be a suicide bomber? whats next?
Many Brazilians have encountered death squads and depending on what this guys background was he may have had good reason to try and escape from a bunch of gun wielding people, regardless of whether they were shouting !police! or not. The officers in question will face criminal charges and the repercussions from this incident are huge in a general policing role with many officers possibly refusing to carry guns now.

BuffyBot

Everyone posting here thinks they are posting sensibly, you cannot just dismiss other peoples views as stupid

No, but they certainly veer on to the wacky - "act of terrorism" indeed. Sico's post is one of the only ones to have put some thought into it.

TBH, this thread is a bit pointless because there is a lto we just don't know yet - and speculation isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

Dub13

CJhaughey wrote:

The officers in question will face criminal charges and the repercussions.

Have you a source for this info or is it your view...?I dont think they will face charges,you cannot have doubt in the minds of cops chasing terrorist

Dinner

Dub13 wrote:

Have you a source for this info or is it your view...?I dont think they will face charges,you cannot have doubt in the minds of cops chasing terrorist

I'd highly doubt he would be in trouble. Police were ordered to shoot to kill any suicide bomber suspect. Thats what they did. And thats what they'll do again if in a similar situation.

Complaining about the police is all well and good with hindsight. But when your in the situation where a suspected bomber has run onto a train, it is differant. You can leave him and hope he isnt a bomber, or make sure he isnt a bomber.

county

danniemcq wrote:

that announcment only came out after the guy was shot. it was a classified order. and a shot to the chest might not set off the bomb as it usually needs a trigger mechonisim to be realeased or pressed. granted the chance is there for an explosion but it's just strange in my head, shoot the head for a sure kill or shoot in the chest and maybe kill loads.

in my opinion there should be different take down methods ie tazor guns etc that would make the suspect lose control of his muscles therfore leaving him/her helpless

sorry but if the so called terrorist has his hand on the button, a muscle spasm will make him clench,ie pressure on the trigger,bang everyone is dead

CJhaughey

Dub13 wrote:

Have you a source for this info or is it your view...?I dont think they will face charges,you cannot have doubt in the minds of cops chasing terrorist

from the BBC:

Police have also raided a house in Streatham Hill, south London, in connection with the failed attacks. The statement confirmed the man had been followed by police from a house in Tulse Hill that was under surveillance.

His death is being investigated by officers from the MPS Directorate of Professional Standards, and will be referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

John O'Connor, former commander of the Met Police, told the BBC the consequences of the shooting were likely to be "quite horrendous".

He said he expected officers to face criminal charges, and other officers could even refuse to carry weapons.

Rippy

Even if they don't face charges the implications for the officers involved are huge. Immediate suspension and having to answer lots of very awkward questions will be just the start of it. A mistake was made in very difficult circumstances , an innocent man died, and they (police involved) will have to live with that descision and it's consequences for the rest of their lives.

A Dub in Glasgo

BuffyBot wrote:

No, but they certainly veer on to the wacky - "act of terrorism" indeed.

How is that 'wacky'?

Sico's post is one of the only ones to have put some thought into it.

Maybe but the reply was to MI who though the vast majority on this thread were not posting 'sensibly'

TBH, this thread is a bit pointless because there is a lto we just don't know yet - and speculation isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

nothing new for this forum considering that 95% (a guess) of threads here are based on speculation.

CJhaughey

Arabel wrote:

I'd highly doubt he would be in trouble. Police were ordered to shoot to kill any suicide bomber suspect. Thats what they did. And thats what they'll do again if in a similar situation.

Easy to say that the police will do it again but after a number of innocent people are shot surely the police will become terrorists?

county

CJhaughey wrote:

Easy to say that the police will do it again but after a number of innocent people are shot surely the police will become terrorists?

so any body that kills a man is now known as a terrorist?

BuffyBot

How is that 'wacky'?

How is it "terrorism"?

At the moment, we know so little yet you're quite willing to slate the police for their actions.

A Dub in Glasgo

BuffyBot wrote:

How is it "terrorism"?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3090185&postcount=12

At the moment, we know so little yet you're quite willing to slate the police for their actions.

We know that the police were tailing the guy and were quite prepared to put the public in danger if he was a suicide bomber
We know that the was shot 5 times in the head whilest being held down on the ground by the police
We know he was not a suicide bomber or involved in the bomb attacks
We know he was 27 and was from Brazil

I think it is extremely healthly that the police are giving an absolute grilling over this. I do not believe in the ethos of shoot first, ask questions later

county

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3090185&postcount=12



We know that the police were tailing the guy and were quite prepared to put the public in danger if he was a suicide bomber
We know that the was shot 5 times in the head whilest being held down on the ground by the police
We know he was not a suicide bomber or involved in the bomb attacks
We know he was 27 and was from Brazil

I think it is extremely healthly that the police are giving an absolute grilling over this. I do not believe in the ethos of shoot first, ask questions later

what we know is he was a ****ing muppet for running away from armed police

A Dub in Glasgo

county wrote:

what we know is he was a ****ing muppet for running away from armed police

Really?

A ****ing muppet for running away from an armed gang dressed in jeans and baseball caps? Nice to see you care so much