Valid Categories

cormie

Hi,
Just wondering about the licence categories.

On my previous provisional I had:
A1 Motorcycles up to 11kW or 125 cc
A (restricted) Motorcycles up to 25kW (approx. 300 cc)
B Vehicles with seats for up to 8 passengers and max weight of 3,500kg
M Moped with maximum speed of 45 kph and engine size up to 50 cc
W Works vehicle such as a tractor or JCB

Now on my Full license I only have:
B Vehicles with seats for up to 8 passengers and max weight of 3,500kg

However, it says on the leaflet provided:
"Persons who hold full licence entitlement in - category B are also licensed to drive vehicles in category M and W

If that's the case, why do I only have a to and from date in B column and not M and W?

When applying for my full license, I was told I can re-apply for the provisional for no extra cost so I could have a provisional for A1 and A, so I did, so I got a new provisional with:
A1 Motorcycles up to 11kW or 125 cc
A (restricted) Motorcycles up to 25kW (approx. 300 cc)
M Moped with maximum speed of 45 kph and engine size up to 50 cc
W Works vehicle such as a tractor or JCB

No B! Also, the too and from dates are the same as they were on my old provisional.

So am I fully licensed to drive categories M and W or just provisionally licensed to? If I'm only provisionally licensed, why doesn't the leaflet say:
"Persons who hold full licence entitlement in - category B are also licensed to drive vehicles in category M and W AND A1 and A. If I'm fully licensed, why don't I have a to and from date for it?

Also, I looked at my dads full licence the other day and he has about 4 to and from dates on his red one. It's about 10 years old. Have things changed since then regarding categories?

So if I want to continue holding a provisional for A1 and A I have to re-apply for a new provisional? Is there a time limit on this? Can I re-apply in 8 years or 17 if I decide to get a bike as it expires in December this year.

How about you? Which have you got?

Use this page for category lists.

Seth Brundle

My licence is older than the M category and therefore hasn't got this on it. However, my licence is valid for both B & W. As it is a full licence (obtained when i passed my 'B' test), legally then it should be full for both as the licence cannot be both full and prov!

On another note, I find it odd that I can drive a tractor with a long trailer laiden with hay but not licenced to drive a car with a small trailer!

seamus

You're kind of all over the place here.

A full licence in category B entitles you to drive vehicles also in cats. M and W, without them being specified on the licence. It does NOT allow you to drive vehicles in cats. A1 and A. Generally the dates in the M and W categories are only filled in if you have done a test for those categories - i.e. if you don't have a full licence in cat. B. I think however, you can ask them to fill in dates for those cats. if you wish.

OK. Now, when you applied to update your provisional, B was obviously removed, but whoever did it screwed up and stuck the M and W on there too. You're fully licenced for M and W, ignore them.

The same rules apply for the A and A1 provisional as any other. If you wish to continue holding it when it expires in December, you apply for a second provisional. When that expires, you'll need to show evidence of having done a test to get a third provisional. If you allow it to expire, you can reapply after five years for a first provisional in either of those categories.

uberwolf

you must not have marked the catogeries on your application. Simple as that. You are entitled to them automatically, you still have to tick your requirement for them however.

Time limits on provisionals. 5 years and you return to your first provisional.

your new provisional is simply a replacement of the old one, upgrading a single catogery. You were given it free in lieu. If you want a new one, fill the form, hand over your €15.

murphaph

cormie wrote:

So if I want to continue holding a provisional for A1 and A I have to re-apply for a new provisional? Is there a time limit on this? Can I re-apply in 8 years or 17 if I decide to get a bike as it expires in December this year.

As has been pointed out by others on here-if you wait 5 years after the expiry of your provo A licence you will be considered a first time applicant. That's fine if you're not in any rush to be licenced to drive a bike but if you've never done a theory test for a provo M/A1/A/B or W licence then you'll have to do one as you'll be considered a first time applicant after the 5 years have elapsed. It's €34 down the tube if you have to do that so if you're even contemplating doing the bike thing then make sure to renew that provo licence after 4 years 11 months!

Capt'n Midnight

kbannon wrote:

On another note, I find it odd that I can drive a tractor with a long trailer laiden with hay but not licenced to drive a car with a small trailer!

http://www.transport.ie/roads/licensing/licence/index.asp?lang=ENG&loc=1836

W is for tractor - can you show me where it says "Tractor and Trailer ?"

Here is the trailer bit for B licenses

Towing a Trailer

If you hold a category B licence and wish to tow a trailer you may do so provided
(1) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle and the combination does not exceed 3500 kg or
(2) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750 kg.
If you wish to tow a heavier trailer you must hold a category EB licence.

The holder of a driving licence in category C1, C, D1 or D may tow a trailer provided the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750 kg. Categories EC1, EC, ED1 or ED (depending on the towing vehicle) must be held in order to tow trailers in excess of 750 kg.

murphaph

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

W is for tractor - can you show me where it says "Tractor and Trailer ?"

W is for sh!t loads of vehicles that should be properly tested in their own right and are tested elsewhere. In the UK for example a "tracked vehicle" is a seperate category from tractors and JCBs. W in Ireland does indeed llow you to drive such things as combine harvesters and tractors drawing a trailer. There is no E+W licence! So, kbannon has highlighted yet another anomally in Irish legislation. A simple B test allows me to drive a tractor capable of 60 or 70 km/h towing a laden trailer while I am prohibited from drawing a trailer larger than 750kg or whatever it is behind a car or 4x4. Crazy 'system'.

Capt'n Midnight

:eek: Aw crap they are allowed
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI285Y1989.html

6. (1) A combination of vehicles which consists of a drawing vehicle and a trailer shall, for the purposes of these regulations, be regarded as a vehicle:—

( a ) in category B where the drawing vehicle is in category B and the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle and the total design gross vehicle weight of the combination does not exceed 3,500 kg,

( b ) in category B, C1, C, D1 or D where the drawing vehicle is in category B, C1, C, D1 or D, respectively, and the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750 kg,

( c ) in category W where the drawing vehicle is in category W.

"work vehicle" means a vehicle (other than a land tractor) which is incapable of exceeding a speed of 40 kilometres per hour and which is constructed primarily for any work other than the conveyance by road of goods or burden of any other description.

We must dig up a list of stuff that can exceed 40Kph.. (but doesn't block fast tractors though)

Hotblack Desiato

cormie wrote:

A (restricted) Motorcycles up to 25kW (approx. 300 cc)

Hmmm I wonder who gave you that little nugget of disinformation but I can guess - the motor tax offices haven't a clue about bikes and the information on Oasis is WRONG :rolleyes:

Please, please tell me it doesn't say the approx 300cc bit actually on the licence! Doesn't on mine, but it was renewed last year, and yours is brand new obviously

25kW is a power output and there is NO correlation whatsoever between cc and power output. Some tuned 2-stroke 125 sports bikes put out more than 25kW and therefore need an unrestricted A licence to ride! (Most 125s, as sold, are under 11kW and therefore in category A1 - but some have serious tuning potential taking them up into cat A restricted, or even cat A unrestricted territory.)

Similarly you can have a 650cc (or even larger) classic that won't break the 25kW limit, or will qualify under the power-to-weight ratio (either will do).

It's annoying that government agencies are still giving out completely wrong information about the "new" rules, six years after they were introduced!

cormie

Put my licence in my car, not bothered to go fetch now:P

So since my provisional is from Dec 2003, does that mean I can let the current one expire and apply for my 2nd in November 2008 and have that for another 5 years then for €15?

The man in the tax office said to only mark B as B covers M and W. I would like the dates on the licence though aswell. Why didn't they just do it?? :rolleyes: And that's a bit of a cock up that they put M and W then on my provisional aswell!

So I'm fully licensed to drive a tractor on a country road so? Cool. May go into the farming business yet.

Hotblack Desiato

When you do get it out of the car would you mind checking to see if it has a box for M or W? Mine doesn't. No loss as W and M are assumed with B, and M with A or A1.

AFAIK you can't apply for category M on its own anymore, does anyone know if W can be applied for still or is it only available when passing B?

Cormie not too sure what you're getting at with the provisional licences, when you pass one category you get your prov. back for the remaining ones for the remaining period of its validity. So you should still have provisional A and A1 until Dec 2005, free of charge. You can apply for your second bike provisional up til Dec 2010 - longer than that and you have to start again at the beginning (possible theory test, and any new rules such as compulsory training)

If you renew your existing provisional (i.e. let it lapse for less than five years) then any new restrictions put on learners in the future won't apply to you.

cormie

ninja900 wrote:

When you do get it out of the car would you mind checking to see if it has a box for M or W? Mine doesn't. No loss as W and M are assumed with B, and M with A or A1.

AFAIK you can't apply for category M on its own anymore, does anyone know if W can be applied for still or is it only available when passing B?

Cormie not too sure what you're getting at with the provisional licences, when you pass one category you get your prov. back for the remaining ones for the remaining period of its validity. So you should still have provisional A and A1 until Dec 2005, free of charge. You can apply for your second bike provisional up til Dec 2010 - longer than that and you have to start again at the beginning (possible theory test, and any new rules such as compulsory training)

If you renew your existing provisional (i.e. let it lapse for less than five years) then any new restrictions put on learners in the future won't apply to you.

Aha, so it's five years from Dec 2005 and not Dec 2003 (issue date). So I have till Nov 2010 to get €15 to get my 2nd. That's fine:) I'm certain it has a box for M and W by the way!

murphaph

ninja900 wrote:

When you do get it out of the car would you mind checking to see if it has a box for M or W? Mine doesn't.

Nor does mine but a mate's does cos he only renewed recently. Yours is probably dated lke mine.

ninja900 wrote:

AFAIK you can't apply for category M on its own anymore, does anyone know if W can be applied for still or is it only available when passing B?

That sounds wrong. The reason those categories even exist is to allow younger drivers (16) to drive those vehicles without being allowed drive a car.
W could always be applied for by 16 year old farmer's sons who wanted to drive the tractor. The test was/is conducted by special arrangement with the department-they come to you if you're too far from a test centre to realistically drive a tractor. Very very few people do this, most opting to remain provsional until 18 then heading for the B test.

Hotblack Desiato

Yeah not sure about the tractor scenario but the minimum age for A1 (bikes up to 125cc) is 16 - so there's no real need for category M except to give moped entitlement to full car licence holders.

Minimum age for class B (car) is 17 and class A (bikes of any cc) is 18.

My old full licence had a box for W (M didn't exist at all then.) Renewed it last year and it has no M or W box.

murphaph

ninja900 wrote:

Yeah not sure about the tractor scenario but the minimum age for A1 (bikes up to 125cc) is 16 - so there's no real need for category M except to give moped entitlement to full car licence holders.

Minimum age for class B (car) is 17 and class A (bikes of any cc) is 18.

My old full licence had a box for W (M didn't exist at all then.) Renewed it last year and it has no M or W box.

That's gas. So your old licence had a W box, your newish one has no M or W box and the ones they're issuing now have both M & W..Clowns.

As for the category M, well it all comes down to the test vehicle required. Can a 50cc moped (no gears) be used? If so then it's a sensible(ish) category-except that I believe it allows Honda 50's to be ridden legally which would be silly given that is has gears. If a moped can be used then the licence should be restricted to mopeds, like taking a B test in an automatic car restricts the licence holder to automatics.

cormie

just on the automatic issue, am I licensed to drive an automatic because I passed in a manual or does it work both ways?

murphaph

cormie wrote:

just on the automatic issue, am I licensed to drive an automatic because I passed in a manual or does it work both ways?

If you passed in a manual you can drive automatic.

causal

ninja900 wrote:

so there's no real need for category M except to give moped entitlement to full car licence holders.

Which is a joke imho. I had long passed my B test, and unsurprisingly when I first rode a scooter (hired on holiday) I wasn't competent controlling it. There are plenty of videos on the internet of 'giz-a-go' novices careering out of control on 2 wheels - it's easily done - and having a B licence of itself won't help.

Of course technically the scooter wasn't class M, neither are 99% of the scooters on Irish roads:

M Moped with maximum speed of 45 kph and engine size up to 50 cc 16 years

My old scooter was well capable of 80kph - and so are the majority of scooters ergo they do not qualify for the M category and require a minimum category A1 licence.

When I had my scooter I rode it under a category M licence (i.e. that's what the insurance co. wanted). But to cover myself - I applied for a cateogry A provisional licence before buying the scooter. Fortunately for me it meant my licence predated the 2000 restriction rules - so when I passed my bike test I didn't have a 2 year restriction period

causal

causal

cormie wrote:

just on the automatic issue, am I licensed to drive an automatic because I passed in a manual or does it work both ways?

Manual covers manual and automatic,
BUT automatic covers automatic only*

*if you do your A1 or A test on an automatic (e.g. scooter) then your full licence will only apply to automatic bikes.

causal