[article] Resignations from IRA Army Council (apparently)

mike65

Story goes that Messers Adams, McGuiness and Ferris have removed themselves from the Provos military wing in preparation for a statement by the PIRA next week. The story was on the Indo front page and also reported on Belfast Telegraph site.

THREE senior Sinn Fein figures, including party president Gerry Adams, have stepped down from their posts on the IRA's ruling army council.

The ground-breaking decision means that all links between the leadership of the political and military wings of the Provisional movement have been severed.

And it paves the way for major changes in the Provisional structures to be announced in an IRA statement, now expected to be delivered in the second half of next week.

It is believed that the internal IRA debate about its future, which has been going on for over three months, has now effectively ended and that the final details of the statement are being worked on.

It was learned last night that Mr Adams, Sinn Fein's chief peace negotiator Martin McGuinness and Dail deputy and convicted gun-runner Martin Ferris have all resigned from the seven-man IRA army council.

Their posts have been filled by two men from Belfast and one from Tyrone, all of whom are closely aligned to the Adams-McGuinness group pushing the movement onto a purely political path.

The changes in personnel are also seen as part of the "sanitisation" process within Sinn Fein as the party prepares to present itself as a democratic body that is ready to play a full part in political developments north and south of the Border.

None of the new appointees is a member of Sinn Fein but all are regarded within the Provisionals as militarists with proven records.

One of them is a hunger striker from Belfast and he has been on the IRA's headquarters staff with responsibility for the "engineering" department.

The second is also from Belfast and had criminal convictions in the past for possession of explosives, while the third is regarded as the IRA commander in the Tyrone region.

The make-up of the rest of the army council remains unchanged and South Armagh hardliner Tom "Slab" Murphy continues as the organisation's chief of staff, a post he has held since an IRA executive meeting in Falcarragh, Co Donegal, in October 1997 - a summit which resulted in the resignation of Michael McKevitt and the subsequent formation of the dissident Real IRA.

Mike.

Villain

And your comment to go along with the Article would be???

It was learned last night that

How was it learned I wonder, I saw the Indo this morning but didn't bother spending my hard earned cash to read "blah blah.... according to intelligence reports...... we have learned blah blah"

hill16

I heard Conor Cruise O'Brien is the new Chief Of Staff.

rsynnott

These are the Messrs "Not associated with the IRA", eh?

Cork

mike65 wrote:

Story goes that Messers Adams, McGuiness and Ferris have removed themselves from the Provos military wing in preparation for a statement by the PIRA next week.

Anything short of complete disbandment of the IRA should not be accepted by both governments.

rsynnott

Cork wrote:

Anything short of complete disbandment of the IRA should not be accepted by both governments.

Of course not. Sadly, that will happen shortly after Satan goes into the cryogenic supplies business.

Hydroquinone

And when do we think the Gardai will be arresting the three of them for membership of an illegal organisation, eh?

Today? Tomorrow? The twelfth of never, yup, that'll be it.

sceptre

Some of you have been warned about the next-to-useless one-liners lately. Take this as a final pre-ban warning. You can discuss the implications and so on or step outside the board for a currently-unspecified period.

Mike, as per usual rules, please add your own views.

Personally, assuming the story to have some truth, I'd see it as a potentially interesting development along the lines to "nowt to do with us and this time we really mean it, matey". Not sure it looks like there's any change in direction or lack of direction and trench-digging.

mike65

Ooh alright..I just put the article up as a notice really.

The move, if it actually happened (after all many resist the idea that Adams etc are/were on the IRA Army Council) will hopefully presage a statement which will make it clear that the PIRA will cease all paramilitary and criminal activites. Naturally I'm sceptical but would like to be proven wrong.

Mike.

Sand

I dont think declarations are going to have the major impact Provos seem to think they will. Martin McGuinness was saying that P O Neills statement would have an immediate effect on the peace process.

Now whilst I can see Blair being distracted and saying "Yes fine, thats great, woopee doo", and Ahern is desperately trying to join Adams club and will endorse practically anything they say, theyre not the immediate block on the proccess. The DUP and all other right thinking democrats in Northern Ireland are.

The DUP has been busy saying they will only accept SFIRA as a negotiating partner after many *years* of verified good behaviour, and another condition I heard was that before the DUP would deal with Adams and Co is that Dublin and London would delist the IRA as a terrorist organisation, which just isnt going to happen because past all the bull****, Ahern and Blair both know that they are still terrorists. So I can see McGuinness being dissapointed if he thinks the DUP is going to come running to be lied to and betrayed like Trimble was.

Seeing as SFIRA werent willing to give up their crinimal enterprises or allow verified destruction of their arsenal, its hard to see them providing any more than the same old tired ****e dressed up as something new. Even this move by Adams and Co to resign their seats on the Army Council (Id imagine certain posters dont know what to make of that!) seems a little hollow when theyre being replaced by men loyal to them and their strategy. Does a middle man suddenly mean Adams and Co wont have their men vote by proxy for them? Theyll have to go a lot, lot farther than re-arranging the deck chairs I think.

Cork

I welcome any moves to see the end of the IRA. I feel that it should have happened immediately after the Good Friday Agreement. But that said, moves to fully embrace democratic principles and metods have to be welcomed.

But I agree that Theyll have to be cast iron assurances about the ending of all IRA activity. I think any fudge on this will achieve nothing.

supersheep

It seems like a step in the right direction. Then again, the number of times I've thought to myself "Oh yay! Looks like it's going to end!" and then been crushed... I'm starting to think that the IRA don't want to disband and want to continue with their criminal activities... Surely not?
DUP, right thinking democrats? First and only time I've heard them described like that... Admittedly, the only ones I really know are the Paisley's, but right thinking (or indeed democrat, where it applies to Catholics/Nationalists) are not words I would use to describe them.

murphaph

The IRA/UVF/LVF/UDA are all a bunch of drug dealing, bank robbing, murdering scum. They are criminal gangs. They will not 'disband'. The only way anything will happen is if ALL politicians privately and publicly break all links with these gangs and condemn them as the criminals they are. Law and order must be upheld by the decent people in cooperation with the police, just like a normal society. People are too stupid to see what these gangs are doing to them and their areas.

supersheep

murphaph wrote:

The IRA/UVF/LVF/UDA are all a bunch of drug dealing, bank robbing, murdering scum. They are criminal gangs. They will not 'disband'. The only way anything will happen is if ALL politicians privately and publicly break all links with these gangs and condemn them as the criminals they are. Law and order must be upheld by the decent people in cooperation with the police, just like a normal society. People are too stupid to see what these gangs are doing to them and their areas.

I agree. It may have been different ten years ago, I don't know as I was too young, when they had their 'cause' to fight for, but now... It's funny. The IRA usd to have its own little cover group to take out pushers, Direct Action Against Drugs, and now they ARE the pushers.

rsynnott

supersheep wrote:

The IRA usd to have its own little cover group to take out pushers, Direct Action Against Drugs, and now they ARE the pushers.

Direct Action For Drugs?

tomMK1

sceptre wrote:

Personally, assuming the story to have some truth, I'd see it as a potentially interesting development along the lines to "nowt to do with us and this time we really mean it, matey". Not sure it looks like there's any change in direction or lack of direction and trench-digging.

I think the question has to be asked as in how does this info come about? If the three were indeed in the IRA and the indo knows all about it, why havent the gardai/psni arrested them?

The point being made by one liners is that the Indo make a story and too many suckers believe it without asking how they ever got their information in the first place, consdiering if their info is true, then then authorities must know, and in that case why has no-one been arrested for membership of the army council.

the answer is they dont know, and the indo is just selling newspapers and this country is full of people who love to believe what they read without actually thinking.

tomMK1

besides, once the IRA do disband, there'll just be other reasons to keep nationalists out of politics. Will the GFA be implimented in fulll if the IRA disband? I doubt it. WIll there be calls for all ex IRA people to present themselves to the Gardai or PSNI - probably. Will demands be made for all arms to be hand delivered to the authories? Probably. Will those last two things be acceptable to nationalists? probably not.

ANother point - its been mentioned the IRA deal drugs - can anyone find me any shred of evidence to support the idea that the provisional ira sell drugs? If not, then dont be saying it.

tomMK1

rsynnott wrote:

Of course not. Sadly, that will happen shortly after Satan goes into the cryogenic supplies business.

right now this country needs people to support the peace process by putting some belief into whats happening. when it does happen, it wont be because of opions like the one quoted.

Victor

tomMK1 wrote:

I think the question has to be asked as in how does this info come about? If the three were indeed in the IRA and the indo knows all about it, why havent the gardai/psni arrested them?

On what charge would the PSNI arrest them? Seeing as IRA membership (alone) is no longer illegal in the North.

murphaph

tomMK1 wrote:

The point being made by one liners is that the Indo make a story and too many suckers believe it without asking how they ever got their information in the first place, consdiering if their info is true, then then authorities must know, and in that case why has no-one been arrested for membership of the army council.

Because in a democratic society the police must have proof before they arrest and charge people for crimes. Knowing it is one thing-proving it is another. The aforementioned scumbag gangs don't deal in 'due process', they deal in drugs.

rsynnott

Victor wrote:

On what charge would the PSNI arrest them? Seeing as IRA membership (alone) is no longer illegal in the North.

Really? Why on earth not?

Stabshauptmann

murphaph wrote:

The IRA ..... are drug dealers

Sources for that info would be interesting since neither the gardaí nor the PSNI have accused the PIRA of being drug dealers as far as I can remember.

I believe a certain person in my locality with links to republicanism to have links to drug dealing but Ive no proof nor evidently do the gardaí. Allegations of collusion and cooperation with drug dealers is actually the most Ive ever heard on the subject.

Anyone actually have a link to any time the gardai or psni I have said otherwise/ care to set me straight?

supersheep

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

I believe a certain person in my locality with links to republicanism to have links to drug dealing but Ive no proof nor evidently do the gardaí. Allegations of collusion and cooperation with drug dealers is actually the most Ive ever heard on the subject.

Same here... I don't know where I got the impression the whole IRA were running drugs though... Probably the Independent...

Rock Climber

supersheep wrote:

Same here... I don't know where I got the impression the whole IRA were running drugs though... Probably the Independent...

I'd say it's their friendship with the FARC drug barons that the more recent idea that the IRA are indifferent to Drug running gets its basis tbh.

Colombia's guerrillas are using the drug profits to buy arms and munitions on the international market. In 2001, three Irishmen -- two convicted Irish Republican Army (I.R.A.) members and another, a member of Sinn Fein, the I.R.A.'s political arm -- were arrested in Bogota while trying to leave the country. It is suspected that they were in Colombia as representatives of the I.R.A. and were trying to arrange a deal in which F.A.R.C. would give the I.R.A. drugs in return for training in the ways of guerrilla warfare.

Villain

Rock climber the biggest word in that quote of yours is "suspected" all anyone has here is opinions no one has every produced evidence that the IRA are dealing drugs or that Adams is on the IRA army council, all people have is a list of stories that anyone could make up, oh and that he lied 30 years ago.

Rock Climber

I wasnt talking about Adams at all,I didn't mention him.

I find it funny that you mention him though in response to my post about the IRA,when you go out of your way at every point possible to paint him as non IRA.

I did mention though how these IRA guys were caught out hypocritically courting the worst type of Drug selling scum.
Do you want to defend that aswell?

rsynnott

Rock Climber wrote:

Do you want to defend that aswell?

I'm sure he will. After all, SFIRA can do no wrong. It's the most perfect political group in history, and anyone who believes otherwise DESERVES to be blown up/shot/kneecapped/whatever's currently in fashion...

Stabshauptmann

Personally I believe Adams was on the army council.
I also find it very easy to beieve that individuals connected with the IRA may be connected with drugs, but in the same was as the mafia tried to steer clear of drugs so to I believe is the IRA trying.

Anyway the issue at hand:

From what I can tell the IRA is trying to shore itself up > they ont want any leakages. To this end theres been a whole lot of double speak etc and efforts to keep everyone happy.

There was a build up of militant support within the IRA since about xmas. There were a few changes in staff over the past few years
The Belfast boys, despite it being Adams home turf arent overly enthusiastic about him

Now this. I dont know what to make of this, whether its a PR stunt, a good thing or Adams trying to distance himself from something very bad in the near future. Id be interested to read this declaration when it comes.

Anyway, speculation isnt a good thing when your a certified paranoid. Good night.

Stabshauptmann

Rock Climber wrote:

I wasnt talking about Adams at all,I didn't mention him.

I find it funny that you mention him though in response to my post about the IRA,when you go out of your way at every point possible to paint him as non IRA.

I did mention though how these IRA guys were caught out hypocritically courting the worst type of Drug selling scum.
Do you want to defend that aswell?

TBH, FARC are the lesser of two evils.

supersheep

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

TBH, FARC are the lesser of two evils.

Because they're in a foreign country? That's the only reason I can think of, because everything the IRA have done, FARC have done, and then some... Then again, FARC are closer to being the 'good guys' than the IRA, if only because the government in Colombia are b*stards. (Not condoning terrorism, just pointing out that the gap in evilness between FARC and the Colombian government is less wide than the gap between the IRA and the British or Irish government.)
You seem to know your sh*t about the Provos though. I'd agree with almost everything you say (apart from the FARC being less evil bit.)

Stabshauptmann

No, If Id to pick a good guy out of the Columbian mess, Id pick FARC over the gorernment who murders it political rivals, massacres civilians, appauling human rights abuses, private armies, and heavy involvement with drugs. Not to mention the outrage my innner leftie feels about how they sell out to muti nationals.

Then you take FARC. They have varing standards from part to part, some areas they tax drugs, some they stamp it out, some they may be involved in the trade. They support unions and pay pensions. They run "councils of the ppl" sic or something like that.